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Max,
About the 9 bottle practice. My tibetan kung fu teacher taught me a practice like this. You can find it in the book by Shou-Yu Liang called Qigong Empowerment. The method is called Nine Segment Buddhist Breathing which also gets rid of the impurities of the body. There is no breath retention but there is colour visualization and side channels, but anyway, the effect is all good. I did it prior to martial arts training.
I really don’t think breath retention is a good idea because it
puts strain on the lungs and adrenal glands in the long run and although this method is simple, if you stop the practice after a while, your lungs will deflate like a tire and you could get serious problems. What interests me is the counterforce breathing by Michael, which sounds very interesting because it tries to make the space longer between inhalation and exhalation – that is, it seems to be like the beginning of what is called embryonic breathing.Remember, the highest breathing is “no breathing.” The macrocosmic orbit clears and fills the channels better than any other practice, you don’t need 9 bottled breathing or nine segment buddhist breathing if you have the orbit. Take what you need, discard what you don’t need.
Fajin,
your instincts are good. I learned the hard way, did breathing and holding practices to the extreme when I was younger. They eventually deplete you.your question on formulas is answered below.
m<<< I really don’t think breath retention is a good idea because it
puts strain on the lungs and adrenal glands in the long run and although this method is simple, if you stop the practice after a while, your lungs will deflate like a tire and you could get serious problems.>>>If you do it correctly the way it is taught, there will be no side effects at all. Breath retention is not a new thing and had been in many cultures for thousands of years. Are you doubting its benefits?
<<Remember, the highest breathing is “no breathing.” The macrocosmic orbit clears and fills the channels better than any other practice, you don’t need 9 bottled breathing or nine segment buddhist breathing if you have the orbit. Take what you need, discard what you don’t need.>>
Lets talk about it in a couple of years. You will tell me all about it. Good luck with your practice.
Hey Max,
You are choosing a different path than me. I prefer the effortless breathing, while you choose effort to get to non-effort. It seems like Buddhist/Hinduist external to internal. I choose Daoist internal to external. The natural effortless path appeals to me. It calls me. Good luck to you!
Max has helped convert me on a number of points, and this is one too. As long as breath retention practice is done in moderation and in the context of a good meditation practice the extreme power of it won’t be harmful.
As with all practices, if it doesn’t feel good reduce or eliminate it. It’s not for everyone.
> I really don’t think breath retention is a good idea because it puts strain on the lungs and adrenal glands >
Breath retention is often taught as a relaxed method, ie: when there is strain, you’ve held your breath for too long and are doing the practice incorrectly. Holding the breath for short periods in a relaxed manner lets your internal alchemy interact with the qi from the air. And, yes, some people do breath retention for too long.
You are refuting an incorrect representation of the practice.
> The macrocosmic orbit clears and fills the channels better than any other practice, you don’t need 9 bottled breathing or nine segment buddhist breathing if you have the orbit. >
9 bottle breathing, aka vase breathing, targets more specifically the side channels. Some of the deeper classic meditations require that the side channels be open and filled. If another practice is doing that for you, great.
So, you’re drawn to the HT practices and groovin’ on them; everyone appreciates a progressive groove. No need to dis practices/traditions that you don’t understand.
Trunk,
How could you say that I don’t understand breath retention or that I am saying bad things about practices or traditions. When I was younger, my Tibetan lions roar kung fu teacher taught me lung-gom-pa. I had to sit in padmasana, inhale “IN A RELEAXED METHOD,” hold breath in lower dantian and jump, and keep repeating this process. This is a dangerous method and another student ending up damaging his kidneys because of this practice. I didn’t. Better to go with skin breathing which is an extension of the lungs.
I practiced this for half a year before going to Wudangshan and learning from the Sanfeng sect taijiquan and taking the daoist path. I ended up lightening my body through lung-gom-pa and and I was able to jump 2.5 metres high! My lions roar teacher said that Tibetan lung-gom-pa’s train this in a pitch dark room for 3 years 3 months non-stop (just to eat) and after their body’s are so light that they are able to run at incredibly fast speeds and jump extremely high. That is what they do though, because it’s fire/air.
Daoist path is more earth/water. What I am trying to say is that the martial arts from certain traditions parallels the inner alchemy practices by those same traditions. I UNDERSTAND VERY WELL ABOUT BREATH RETENTION. What I said was that they go from external to internal (fire) while the doist path is internal to external (mix fire with water). From martial arts I learned alot about inner alchemy.
Those traditions use side channels to balance fire and water (parasympathetic and sympathetic) for sushumna nadi to be ready and safe, so the kundalini will safely pass through it. While the daoists use the orbit and store qi in the dantian (best use of yuan qi), which is a totally different path. I wasn’t saying anything bad about other traditions, I’m just saying that they are DIFFERENT, not anything bad.
Breath retention tries to stop breathing. The daoist path leads to embryonic breathing (internal to external) which is fan tong (going back to childhood). This is going back to the root. Just ask Michael about breath retention.
Fajin
f> I wasn’t saying anything bad about other traditions, I’m just saying that they are DIFFERENT >
Then we are in agreement.
“It seems like Buddhist/Hinduist external to internal.”
It only seems that way. There are many pathways within Buddhist traditions with many different methods. There are only few that teach exactly what Buddha tought. Burma, and probably Laos are 2 of a few places that still have true Buddha teachings. You can also read ‘Diamond Sutra’ that discribes in details the method. Vipassana meditation is also coming from Burma. You can also read my post about the priciples of this meditation.
Buddhist meditation
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