Home › Forum Online Discussion › Practice › Would Anyone Like to Discuss Positive Practice Experiences?
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June 28, 2006 at 2:34 pm #15113IntelligenceParticipant
I have been following healingtao formulas for some 8 years.. would anyone like to discuss an overview of their experiences?
I started doing fusion 123 about three/four years ago after several years of smile/inner sounds/orbit..
within the past two years i have done Kan and Li 1 and 2..
anyone else long term on here (8 years+)?
and what kind of experiences have you had?
I began 8 years ago after several years of psychedlic experiences including an astral heiroglyph download experience which mirrors JJ Hurtak’s Keys of Enoch book to a T..
and many years of reading through materials like http://www.deoxy.org and Timothy Leary’s 8 Circuit model of consciousness..
his friend John lilly matched circuits 5 6 and 7 to lower middle and upper cauldron neuron activation..
Hurtak discussed all lots of material on astral heiroglphs, energy channels/meridians etc..
still plugging away at it every day..
I love doing basic kan and li but I often end up in deep sleep.. I have been doing second kan and li for 6 months or so.. with the solar plexus and elements…
June 28, 2006 at 3:40 pm #15114snowlionParticipantI have found these “Alchemy Practices” to be very practical and useful; I have learned various forms of them from various teachers within this network and from other teachers outside M Chia & M. Winn.
I have been meditating since 1982 and utilize them daily; My health was a concern and begain these practices as a last ditch effort. I use a spontanous approach I don’t set goals with it or anything of that nature. Sometimes its deep smiling awareness then sometimes its Greatest Kan & Li. I practice within a group also and we all take turns
leading the group with I like so each practice is different, since each one of us is differet.I have seen great healing stories from alchemy & Qigong practices, I always go into it to expect nothing which usually delivers a “Whoa” expierence.
I Have never had a weird or bad expierence in any of this since i always learned step by step and practiced with a “only what i can digest attitude”. In the beginning it was hard since i was so young, and it was the 80’s no networking or resources but now there is so many great resources to learn from. I can remember when there was nothing but workshops and that was it..
I recently connected with a Native American and they utilize similar practices in their inipi’s, and ceremony’s which is exciting to me because it makes it more understanding and the universality of all this.
I enjoy alchemy and would never trade it in for anything else…grateful i found it when i did… snowlion
June 28, 2006 at 4:32 pm #15116IntelligenceParticipanti have not done greater kan and li yet..
have you had any incontrovertibly “psychic” experiences?
my process has been that I would do the practices and have an experience of flow in certain places that ended up being corroberated by charts/teachings found later..
this leads me to think that the flow is “real”
i always enjoy the practices while I am doing them..
yet I definitely have very real doubts/serious question that metal chi has anything to to with the real air around me..
it’s something i enjoy doing..
it’s like the afterlife thing.. i have very real doubts that any of its “real” so to speak, or that it’s what it is presented to be..
but I enjoy the practices enough and find them mind clearing enough and sexually rewarding enough that they are WELL worth doing..i really do think this stuff helps boot up your pleasure centers and sexual responses, probably via the pituitary and amygydalia
so in other words,
even though I find it terribly straining to believe that metal chi has any real connection to the air
or that the afterlife is really divine bliss ( i suspect the light just goes out)
the practices are enjoyable enough to be well worth doing on their own for pure immediate results..
I hope the other stuff is true..
i have DEFINITELY had psychic results from it.. telepathy is something I have had direct experience of, but that doesn’t mean metal chi is in the air..
June 29, 2006 at 7:46 am #15118wendyParticipantIt is difficult to discuss ‘positive’ practice experiences. I had many ‘experiences’, but what is the use of starting to talk about it because they are MY experiences born from my personality, my needs, my hunger, my pain, my ‘mission’ on this planet and my flaws and things I need to learn. All these practices are tools to come to that and are very individually. Even ‘negative’ experiences turn out to be ‘good’ once!
The practice is a tool, you are the driver, and you choose consciously and most of all unconsciously how you apply those tools and what they will do in your system and sometimes soooo beyond your understanding that it takes time and more practice to look back and grasp the reason.
Even pointing at a ‘bad’ teacher or a ‘bad’ practice is somehow your own choice to learn something somehow.I recently, (while I am very good in ‘screening’ people), walked right into a most bizarre situation. A woman I considered as ‘nearly’ my best friend stabbed me right in the back, in a moment I absolutely did not see any of it coming, not with one dagger but with both hands she drove her daggers in my back. I can tell you I was pretty shocked and angry because somebody misused my trust so badly.
Well, after looking and turning and tossing this event, I can see this as a pay back for what I did to my partner. I once misused his trust and knowing that ‘friendship’ is a ‘karmic’ issue in my life it was the perfect pay back.
Should I blame that woman for what she did? On the horizontal dimension she really did a bad thing, but I see as well she is just a messenger to balance my things out. I pay my debt. She will pay hers somehow somewhere… and so we help each other, nothing or nobody to blame really. It all depends how you look at things… so is this a good or a bad experience?
June 29, 2006 at 12:09 pm #15120IntelligenceParticipanti would have sworn these practices have set results in mind like:
1) body bliss from belly neural connections
2) heart connected energy breath perception from thoracic neural reception
3) pineal/pituitary based astral “light” perception related to symmetry, pinolin, and dmt..this is not some flimsy “maybe” sort of thing, this is precise neural systems and hormone/neurotransmitter levels..
not some flaky “dream” thing
June 29, 2006 at 12:29 pm #15122Michael WinnKeymasterIntelligence,
I don’t think wendy’s response was aout flaky dreams.But it sounds like your response wants to disucss the “scientific” levels of experience, you mention dmt, pinoline, etc. the chemicals mentioned in Chia’s Dark Room booklet (allegedly based on another european writer on this topic). Maybe Leary ws also into those chemicals.
I personally have not found the chemical approach to be that useful. Yes, they are all there, all are charged by changes in the energy body. But focus on the energy body shifts is more primary and productive for the practitioner.
And I welcome your enquiry, I would like to see more exchange on this topic of long term kan and li shifts that have occured, not necessarily as “positive” experiences, but just refinements that might have positive meaning for others.
The sleepiness you experience I believe is probably your polarized ego mind being dissolved by increased presence of yuan chi, generated by the cauldron. Use of a pearl in that cauldron space will give your mind a focal point from which to relate to the formless yuan chi.
michael
June 29, 2006 at 12:45 pm #15124wendyParticipantyes you are right, behind it all there is a logical body-neuro-hormone mapping, no doubt, no discussion about that…
June 29, 2006 at 2:04 pm #15126Alexander AlexisParticipantI am directing this to “Intelligence”.
I have found your insistent questioning and responses to people’s sacred experiences to be downright insulting. Your obsessive focus on the dominance of the lower, fear-based, thinking mind to prove everything in what you believe (but is not necessarily so) to be “scientific” terms and your refusal to respond to any of my many previous statements about the importance of feeling and intuition, which cannot be and is not contested by any serious alchemical or chi gung practitioner, border on deliberate malice.
How “intelligent” is it to make up heady questions about this or that when the soul of things is in the heart, first and foremost? It’s all based on trusting your experience, not on figuring it out with your head so you can coddle your frightened ego by placating your tyrant mind. You may succeed in fooling Michael for a bit with your esoteric and scientific probings of mentally interesting subjects, but you will eventually find that all that is a dead end. You cannot get what you want by staying in your mind and this is where all your refused pain is coming from. If you would pay half as much attention to that as you do to biochemistry you’d have all the answers you seek in the form of knowing and peace. You asked me once what I meant by people deluding themselves. THIS is what I meant.
The universe’s adjuration, “Come to your senses!” is screaming at you, man.
What the heck are you thinking when you call our sincere answers based on many years of experience “flim-flam”? When are you going to look at the fact that you ask all these questions because you are stuck in your head and are dying to get back into your heart and your feelings where all these answers live?
We know we have results from our years of practice because we FEEL those results and we TRUST what we are feeling. You, however, have practiced for years but insist on doubting what you know! How “intelligent” is that? You are eliminating the very tool which can answer you by ignoring your body in favor of your mind. The true mind is in the heart and the heart is in the body. And, by the way, the heart controls the brain.
What are you feeling now?
I have asked you more than once since you began writing questions: “When you get that answer, what will it really give you?”
I suggest you consider answering that question seriously now for it is the only question worth asking at this point.
What will you get when you know if…?
Sincerely, Alexander
June 29, 2006 at 3:47 pm #15128IntelligenceParticipantThere’s a time and place for flim flam and maybe sortofs and there’s a place for hard answers, evidence, and truth..
people who come off like they think they can pretend they’re ice cream cones and never have to eat again are deluding themselves…
where’s the line?
feeling your personal chi field become an ice cream cone is probably going to have abolutely no caloric effect or result..
does shifting your mental focus to different parts of your body have any physical effect?
where’s a study that ocnclusively shows that shifting mental focus within the body has a genuine effect..
western medicine has worked biochemical mechanical wonders as has technology, it’s hard science.. not fluff..
where’s the hard science?
if you watch someone’s intestines begin to process CB, benzodiazepines, etc with consistently improvment due to chi kung well that’s something..
if you watch an influx of tetrahydracannabinol procss through the enteric nervous system with increasing sensations which exactly match those of an activated lower cauldron, then that’s something..
OR
we could all go channel space avatars and tell everyone how to heal themselves with foolproof placebos and make it a real great NEw Age…
where’s the line?
how about I draw it if other people won’t..
June 29, 2006 at 4:00 pm #15130IntelligenceParticipantJust to Alexander..
I’ve never seen Mr. Winn result to flim flam; he’s always had a good answer
even if there is lacking proof..i really do find it terribly difficult to think that metal chi has anything to do with the air..
it seems more like it’s some nerual tone related to the nerves in the lungs that will “wake” up the dendrites to be more perceptive or something..
that’s what I think…
June 29, 2006 at 4:07 pm #15132IntelligenceParticipantJust to Alexander..
I’ve never seen Mr. Winn result to flim flam; he’s always had a good answer
even if there is lacking proof..i really do find it terribly difficult to think that metal chi has anything to do with the air..
it seems more like it’s some nerual tone related to the nerves in the lungs that will “wake” up the dendrites to be more perceptive or something..
that’s what I think…
June 29, 2006 at 4:25 pm #15134IntelligenceParticipanti mean really..
we could all go FEEL the validity and intuitive confirmation of our
mystic Sol Star located two inches ABOVE our belly button..which of course is totally separate from the dan tien and contains our TRUE essence with the help of Raiinbow Brite..
I am simply illustrating a point, please don’t take as a personal insult anyone..
but Barbara Brennon really does do that.. everyone takes a point that no one else puts any emphasis on, convinces everyone it’s their mystic soul point, charges everyone a ton of money, and it has no proven results or effects at all!
from her mystic 12D guide Heyoan..
you’ve got to have something real to work with..
con men have been doing snake oil for millenia..
drugs/chemicals are real with real effects..
this is why the Supreme Court AUTHORIZED a genuine DMT church
and the FEDERAL GOV authorized research into DMT with Rick StraussmanJune 29, 2006 at 9:27 pm #15136Alexander AlexisParticipantDear Doubting Thomas,
You do not seem to be getting the point. Facts are what you call for but you do not see them right in front of you. That’s denial. The world of science, as I have stated before and you have ignored, is full of factual evidence to confirm metaphysical theory. You are flim-flamming yourself to believe otherwise.
“people who come off like they think they can pretend they’re ice cream cones and never have to eat again are deluding themselves…”
This is an essential point in this conversation. You seem to believe that we are pretending and lying to ourselves. That’s wrong.
“where’s the line?”
The line? Between what you are willing to see and what you are not?
I have asked you questions that you are unwilling to answer and you send back unscientific remarks, accusations and insults to the body’s intelligence.“feeling your personal chi field become an ice cream cone is probably going to have abolutely no caloric effect or result..”
You have been insinuating that when I or others say “feel” we mean “make up”. The direct personal experiences we are talking about are not hallucinations or delusions. That is the point here. We feel the changes we initiate through intention and careful practice. We have all gotten physical results. Period. Just accept it and stop fighting with yourself.
“does shifting your mental focus to different parts of your body have any physical effect?”
It is impossible for me to believe that you have not yet come across, as I’ve cited before, the enormous body of scientific evidence as well as personal experience to confirm this. Shifting one’s focus has been scientifically observed to produce such bizarre results as people with multiple personalities changing their eye color when they change their persona, as well as people who have HIV in their systems when in one personality and in another one do not.
Let me ask You the same question… Does shifting your mental focus within your body have any physical effect on you/it? Tell me it doesn’t.
“where’s a study that ocnclusively shows that shifting mental focus within the body has a genuine effect..”
Go find one yourself. They are ALL over.
“western medicine has worked biochemical mechanical wonders as has technology, it’s hard science.. not fluff..”
I’ve covered this before with you and been ignored. I’ll repeat it. The wonders of modern medicine are few and far between. While they are capable of creating certain things which are helpful, mostly during an emergency, they have otherwise marauded the human race with their ignorance because their ways are not balanced. You cannot have a science or medicine without complete appreciation for the fact that we are multi-dimensional beings with emotions and consciousness who are a part of something much bigger – nature, not an accidental bunch of chemicals having no real purpose.
Can you actually be aware of the fact that western medicine is responsible for being (at least) the third largest cause of death in this country and not see the imbalance there?
And, as I’ve asked you before, if you think this is “fluff” why are you spending so much time with it?
“where’s the hard science?”
What is hard science? Why is that so important to you? Can you not believe what you experience? It’s the same question over and over. Can you not believe that you feel better when you do energy practices because you feel it? Do you need someone to prove to you scientifically that you are calmer, more relaxed, more psychic, clearer, more balanced, more loving, healthy now when you were sick before? How scientific is that kind of thinking?
I keep asking you questions that you refuse to answer. Have you noticed that?
“if you watch someone’s intestines begin to process CB, benzodiazepines, etc with consistently improvment due to chi kung well that’s something..”
This happens all the time. Ask Michael to verify if you don’t want to believe me. The scientific evidence is huge here. You can watch a video of three healers in the chi gung hospital in Beijing evaporate a woman’s uterine tumor in 2 minutes and 40 seconds. It’s on tape. Is that “hard” enough for you?
“if you watch an influx of tetrahydracannabinol procss through the enteric nervous system with increasing sensations which exactly match those of an activated lower cauldron, then that’s something..”
WHY?
“OR
we could all go channel space avatars and tell everyone how to heal themselves with foolproof placebos and make it a real great NEw Age…”
No one here is trying to fool themselves. Stop telling yourself and us that we are a bunch of psychotic liars.
“where’s the line?”
You are either honest with yourself about whether your life is changed or you aren’t.
“how about I draw it if other people won’t..”
We are. And we’re trying to tell you that. But because you have chosen to develop a line of thinking/believing which is extremely limited in its scope of what is real and possible, you cannot see that anything outside of your normal way of thinking could be true. You seem extremely afraid of being fooled. So much so that you are fighting against everything that comes to you that could open the door to your experience of yourself in such a way as to “prove” beyond your ability to doubt.
THIS is how “science” blocks progress on planet earth. It refuses to look at what it does not want to see.
It is clear that you have two distinct sides to your personality, one who likes to think he is scientific but whose views are so restricted that he is not being scientific at all, and another part who loves to do the practices but can’t find enough validation from her other parts to feel justified in simply having her enjoyment. She is so abused by him that she is convinced that she needs validation from outside herself; that she has to even ASK if her experiences are real.
The male mind dominates the female body. Sound familiar?
I suggest you consider my original and much repeated advice and look at your fear and trust issues.
-Alexander
June 29, 2006 at 11:11 pm #15138matblackParticipanti think it’s nice/helpful to use science. For example, my sisters’ 28 week premature daughter is being monitored and sustained by sophistocated monitoring at an advanced hospital for which we are very thankful.
But it’s eaqually important not be USED by science. ie, don’t always rely on it for validation of an hypothesis.
The authority of experience will be proof enough to you. And the inquiry of your sincere heart will help authenticate it.June 30, 2006 at 9:14 am #15140JernejParticipantone’s heart is the only dictum
if what you did was from the heart
but atferwards you broke your heart
that is a ‘carmic seed’if what you did was from the heart
and your afterward actions were also from the heart
then go further back
to the beginning of your relationship
to find latent binds to the heartor it might be both
things are not always as they seem in our societyyou contemplate the misuse of another’s trust and not betrayal of your heart
there is always a choice -
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