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November 26, 2004 at 3:33 pm #2115esotericwarriorParticipant
Hello again everybody.I have been practicing zhang zhuang as described in the book warriors of stillness.Just standing in 8 different I chuan postures with my intention on the dan tien.From what I understand this is supposed to be a totally safe practice.Thing is, I thought I had my problem under control (what I wrote about in my other post about a week ago) but I didn’t.It came back and with a vengeance.I have been walking around in total fear and paranoia.Pain in my heart and solar plexus.Feeling very fuzzy and disconnected, almost dizzy.I try to ground this but I just can’t.I did a search on the web through some wong kiew kit stuff and he says zhang zhuang is a dangerous practice and should NOT be done without a masters supervision.Obviously I am very scared.I am also upset that I have to stop training, as it is very important to me.I stopped all my practices but this still hasn’t gone away.I don’t know what to do.I havn’t smoked or taken any of those herbs.Thanks you all for your time and help. Sean
November 26, 2004 at 4:19 pm #2116esotericwarriorParticipantI received some information and I think that I may be suffering from high blood pressure.Anyone know any natural ways to lower blood pressure?
November 26, 2004 at 4:26 pm #2118TrunkParticipantI know that this is not the time you’d want to hear, “we told you so (there would be ups and downs)”, but I mean it in a good way. There is work to do: rooting, and consequential nourishment, that will just take some time. Expect some bumps in the road along the way, and they won’t be quite so much of a freak-out.
> Pain in my heart and solar plexus.Feeling very fuzzy and disconnected, almost dizzy.I try to ground this but I just can’t. >
You’re accessing more energy through standing than you are capable of grounding. The three amigos are designed to – slowly – remedy this (link in the earlier thread). Plus the really slow sort of work, that you so successfully experimented with before.
November 26, 2004 at 6:02 pm #2120esotericwarriorParticipantOk guys, I think I am starting to get to the bottom of this.Let me digress for a moment.Not only did I spend the last six months or so (probably more) smoking weed all the time, I would get the munchies after I smoked so I would eat TONS of junk food.I mean TONS.Boxes of cookies, brownies, ice cream, all in one session till I was so full I could barely move.I started to develop a rock like feeling in my pancreas/spleen.I figured since I was young it was no big deal so I continued with my behavior.Now I have stopped smoking and eating ALL junk food but when I wake up my pancreas hurts and I feel like I have to eat.Everytime I have had these panic attack experiences(which I think is me feeling the dizziness from low blood sugar and scaring the shit out of myself as I don’t like feeling ungrounded.) it is after I eat something.When I felt it today I quickly ate some fruit as I heard that these have natural sugars in them and I felt better almost immediately.I obviously have a block in the pancreas, by the way, sometimes when I would concentrate on the dan tien my pancreas would rumble and vibrate a little (good thing or bad?)I am trying to develop a good practice, I will do the fab four from you Master Trunk :-)and I want to include Zhang Zhuang as described in Warriors of stillness.Which brings back my first question.Why would WOng Kiew Kit,who is supposed to be a genuine master, say that Zhang Zhuang is dangerous and should NOT be practiced on your own, when just about everybody else I spoke to said the opposite, that its completely safe and will have no side effects?ALso, anybody have anything specific I can do to balance my pancreas problem?Thank you all for your time and help. Sean
November 26, 2004 at 6:37 pm #2122esotericwarriorParticipantOk guys, I think I am starting to get to the bottom of this.Let me digress for a moment.Not only did I spend the last six months or so (probably more) smoking weed all the time, I would get the munchies after I smoked so I would eat TONS of junk food.I mean TONS.Boxes of cookies, brownies, ice cream, all in one session till I was so full I could barely move.I started to develop a rock like feeling in my pancreas/spleen.I figured since I was young it was no big deal so I continued with my behavior.Now I have stopped smoking and eating ALL junk food but when I wake up my pancreas hurts and I feel like I have to eat.Everytime I have had these panic attack experiences(which I think is me feeling the dizziness from low blood sugar and scaring the shit out of myself as I don’t like feeling ungrounded.) it is after I eat something.When I felt it today I quickly ate some fruit as I heard that these have natural sugars in them and I felt better almost immediately.I obviously have a block in the pancreas, by the way, sometimes when I would concentrate on the dan tien my pancreas would rumble and vibrate a little (good thing or bad?)I am trying to develop a good practice, I will do the fab four from you Master Trunk :-)and I want to include Zhang Zhuang as described in Warriors of stillness.Which brings back my first question.Why would WOng Kiew Kit,who is supposed to be a genuine master, say that Zhang Zhuang is dangerous and should NOT be practiced on your own, when just about everybody else I spoke to said the opposite, that its completely safe and will have no side effects?ALso, anybody have anything specific I can do to balance my pancreas problem?Thank you all for your time and help. Sean
November 26, 2004 at 7:25 pm #2124spongebobParticipantstanding practice can cause qi to get stuck and trapped. try doing the 6 healing sounds everyday and some kind of movement qigong that will help circulate and ground it. i don’t do much standing practice it but i always follow it with a movement qigong when i do. the 3 amigos may just help, or soemthing else if you prefer it.
November 26, 2004 at 8:11 pm #2126esotericwarriorParticipantStanding practice causing the chi to get stuck?I don’t understand.I have been told that just by focusing on the dan tien the chi will well up and circulate of its own accord to open all the meridians (eventually) and that to purposely try and circulate it can cause it to get stuck.This is from the book warriors of stillness and I have also heard the same thing from taiji master Cheng Man Ching.They say just focus on tan tien is the safest way to build chi.
November 27, 2004 at 5:09 am #2128TrunkParticipant> I will do the fab four >
I have a caution about Yi Swallows Chi. Since in that practice the starting place of the slow yi-swallow is fairly high, I am cautious that in some cases where rooting is weak and there is prone to fear, that you might not effectively be able to guide the chi all the way down. (..and pulsing high up in the body is not what you need right now.)
Instead of Yi Sw’s Chi, just breathe slowly, gently, consciously, kindly, directly into the lower tan tien. Fill in directly there.
November 27, 2004 at 9:43 am #2130spongebobParticipanti don’t know what any books say. i’m just speaking from my own experience. now some people say that qi getting stuck from standing happens around age 40 or there abouts,but as with allthings, it’s DIFFERENT FOR EVERYBODY. which make working from books a litle dangerous–the personal teacher isn’t there to help you make adjustments that may contradict what’s in te book. also, you can’t go by what variou masters say, especially if they’re from the east or eastern trained; the chinese have very different qi from us. virtually every practice needs to be modified in some way to adapt it to the western qi.
November 27, 2004 at 9:51 am #2132hagarParticipantI think you should try to approach you problem a little differently. And maybe find a teacher who can help you with the practice.
In the last week or so, I have been going through some of the same problems as you mentioned: Fear, paranoia, palpitations, heart pain, high bloodpressure, general stress, and basically feeling pretty shitty. And I have also done alot of standing practice.
And I think this, atleast for me can be traced back to 3 basic reasons.
First. If you are young, or follow through with retention, you are flaring up and fueling the latent emotional and energetic imbalances that are there constitutionally or through conditioning. Be aware of this.Secondly, the reason for the reactions are not a part of the qigong form, they are dormant imbalances that manifest through continuous practice. And realize that this is not serious in itself. THey will pass in time, if you practice correctly. One thing to focus on is lightness in the mental attitude during a trainingsession. Constatly try to stay in tune with the chi and detatch from mental commentary and any worries or focus on negativity. Think and vizualize lightness or light in the mind and head, and imagine the heavy stuff going down to earth.It really helps.
Last but not least, the symptoms I experienced were emotions that were old and stuck. When old emotions surface in the session, let them be there, and actually FEEL them all the way, and try to transform them into something more constructive. Like anger; feel the anger, but try to not be a victim of it, but instead feel strength after a while of venting.
If the feelings and general uneasyness continue during the day, find somebody to talk to, and maybe find the source of the feelings. I find that we, as practitioners are overly focused on technique, and seldom see that what we are doing is just facing our basic human faults and pain. When I stood in my practice and actuall just vented what I had energetically for some time, and then meditated, things changed and I felt better.
You are not alone in this department, anyway.
Just my two pesetasNovember 27, 2004 at 9:57 am #2134hagarParticipantDo alot of digestion qigong. It’s vital if you have trouble the stomach. It also transforms food-qi to Jing much more efficiently. It will also ground you more, nourish your spleen and ease the mental worrying and rumination, Everything related to the earth element.
November 27, 2004 at 12:10 pm #2136TrunkParticipant> I started to develop a rock like feeling in my pancreas/spleen… obviously have a block in the pancreas, by the way, sometimes when I would concentrate on the dan tien my pancreas would rumble and vibrate a little (good thing or bad?) >
Critical that you keep a clean diet. Fruit, vegies, soups, whatever you enjoy that is good healthy food. Minimize heavy foods that are difficult to digest.
Some exercise to circulate is also important (circulation is essentially how a jam-up gets resolved). Any cardio-vascular exercise: running, cycling, anything that works for you that gets your muscles moving, blood pumping, heart rate up, breathing. This will help to resolve blockages in your body, and to process – on a physical level – some of the emotions that you’ve been feeling, as well as various of the toxicities that’ve been stored in your body.
November 27, 2004 at 4:09 pm #2138esotericwarriorParticipantThank you all for the excellent information.Will stay away from the yi swallows chi, but Trunk, how bout if I do it like this.Instead of starting up top, what if I just keep a wide open relaxed space in the dan tien only as I breath into it?As for the zhang zhuang and western chi,I thought part of the process of chi gong is to learn how chi works in your own body.Is there really a difference between western and chinese chi?From what I understand about the zhang zhuang is, if there is a blockage in your body that will prevent you from grounding the energy (like say, my PANCREAS/SPLEEN) then the energy generated from the standing will get stuck in the head causing these problems.This makes perfect sense but I still don’t get why so many masters say just focus on the dan tien and it will open all the channels.I mean, the lower dan tien is supposed to be like a safety valve right?All excess energy should be sent there, so if I am just standing with my focus there to begin with why would this happen?I am not purposely circulating up to my head at all, I am just focusing down so wouldn’t this INCREASE my grounding rather than the opposite?I feel like there is something missing here, I mean, if the dan tien isn’t even safe what the hell can you practice in the begginning? Thanks again for all your help, time, and patience. Sean “still confused and tryin to figure out what the hell to do” Jason By the way, last year I used to stand for an hour a day and I had NONE of these problems.I felt incredible and was building substance in the dan tien and had NO FEAR AT ALL.
November 27, 2004 at 6:43 pm #2140vidiamiParticipantI guess that this is what happened to me about a year ago. I was practising zhan zhuang (from Stand still, be fit) and felt great. Then after some time I started to get into problems. Scary things like a racing, irregular heartbeat, the stomach felt like a pounding heart on its own after eating and some other stuff too. At the time I didn’t understand what caused it, but when I look back now I think the major cause was practicing standing. I imagined that this practice would ground the chi, and it probably does, but it also loads in great amounts of raw chi. I think it was more than my system could deal with.
It’s funny how some people talk about getting more chi – I seem to have the opposite problem – getting too much. Maybe I’m not just grounded enough or something or my tan tien isn’t open enough. A common piece of advice is to practice MO, but that really makes things worse for me.
// Peace.
November 27, 2004 at 10:10 pm #2142TrunkParticipantsome rambling…
When standing, the heaven~earth dynamics start running through the body – and working in through the layers of flesh etc. (Huge topic on how that occurs, but,) If it doesn’t actually work through the layers, it tends to over-rev whatever layer it activates but doesn’t get through… some layer of personal energy.
I think that that actually precludes root. At least, I found in my practice that I wasn’t really getting the heavy calm anchored result that should occur with connecting well with the earth. (The internal martial art i’ve been studying has helped some, but) The three amigos are some kind of remedy, i’ve found. The basic approach of working the joints and tissues, and deliberately bringing it together with K1. That’s helped some, for me.
> A common piece of advice is to practice MO, but that really makes things worse for me. >
One of the major problems that i got from practicing Micro.O. a lot is that i cut myself off from root. There is no earth connection in the micro, and i got habituated to feel the lower crescent of the micro as ‘bottom’. Big mistake.
Anyway, its my experience that there are ways to work with earth energy that are anchoring.
Trunk
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