Home › Forum Online Discussion › Philosophy › Sexual Practice: Anal Sex Question
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April 28, 2009 at 10:44 am #31204mpaoneParticipant
Hello everyone,
First time poster here.
My question is this: Does receiving anal sex (either man or woman) weaken one’s sexual well-being or the strength of the PC region?
From reading Mantak Chia, he seems to place a great deal of importance on the tightness and strength of the anus as a pump to raise sexual energy up the spine at the point of orgasm. Also, he says this is a potential leakage point in the body for energy to escape.
I am wondering if anal play, which causes the anus to relax and stretch will actually have negative effects on sexual practice.
All good things,
MichaelApril 28, 2009 at 11:26 am #31205Swedich DragonParticipantHello
I have realy not an answer to your question. I have never tryed that kind of sex.
From what I have heard the penis should not be inserted to long. You should use good lubricate. You should soften up the anus with finger massage before penetration.
I think that done in the right way it is safe. But you have to be careful not to hurt the anal region.
But realy I don’t know for shore.
S D
April 28, 2009 at 7:07 pm #31207StevenModerator>>>Hello everyone,
>>>First time poster here.Hello Michael, and welcome to the list.
>>>My question is this: Does receiving
>>>anal sex (either man or woman) weaken
>>>one’s sexual well-being or the strength of the PC region?
>>>I am wondering if anal play, which causes the anus to relax
>>>and stretch will actually have negative effects on sexual practice.There’s not a lot of information in written sources, and it’s not
talked about too much–in part because there is still probably
some unspoken stigma behind it or some misplaced unrecognized homophobia,
even in the case of male-on-female anal sex.So in that case, I’ll answer you as thoroughly as I can, given what I know.
In general, the answer to your question is this:
It depends on how it is done–just the same as could be said of genital sex.
Genital sex can weaken one’s sexual well-being and/or cause damage
if done improperly also; anal sex is no different in that regard.
In fact, in the case of genital sex, that’s one of main reasons for
doing the sexual practices–to enhance rather than weaken.Let me now just list as many things I can think of with regard to anal sex
and, in particular, its relationship to energy practices that I’m aware of:1. While a number of WOMEN don’t like it, there are also
a good number of others who find the experience uniquely pleasurable.
Some MEN (in the homoerotic sense) enjoy receiving it because
of the indirect prostate stimulation.2. It is a statistic (see “Tao of Sexology”, I think) that gay men who
are “bottoms”, i.e. recipients of anal sex, have far fewer prostate problems
than “tops” and heterosexual men.3. SOME regular anal stimulation can, in a health sense, reduce and diminish
the occurrence of hemorrhoids.4. The anus is a sensitive area and needs more delicate care (than,
say, the vagina) with regard to sexual activity. Too forceful of
activity OR not enough lubrication OR not enough warmup foreplay
of the area can cause damage to the tissues and muscles in the region,
which can cause the problems you mention.5. When receiving anal sex, or participating in anal play,
it is CRITICAL that you begin slowly. It is CRITICAL that enough
lubrication is used and that sexual actions are done delicately
and not forcefully. It is preferable to use a finger or other thin
object to start with, before proceeding to anal sex if penile
penetration is desired.6. SOME people (male OR female) who receive anal sex, like to
purchase and use the JADE EGG that is used in the “Taoist female sexual practices”
for practice in tightening/toning the muscles and tissues in the anus, as
well as sexual energy training. Caveat: Women who use the jade egg
for anal practice should use a different jade egg for their vaginal
work.7. Without using a jade egg, the PC muscle can be strengthened
through the use of Kegel exercises, the same ones that are used
for strengthening in preparation for genital sex (or for general health).8. Keeping in mind the issues in items #4-#7, there is no need to
worry about a weakening of the muscles in the anal region. In fact,
by employing the methods above (as well as through anal sex itself)
the anal region should become STRONGER. If the anal region becomes
instead becomes weaker, it is because of not following the lessons
of items #4 and #5–the problem will correct itself upon fixing that and
employing items #6 and #7.9. A lot of psychological issues and emotions can be stored/trapped
in the anal region, and anal play that is done delicately in a
secure environment can be a means of release.10. Psychology II: For any sexual activity relating to the
anus to be beneficial, you need to be able to answer yes to the
following questions:–A. Do all partners WANT to do the act?
(no partner should ever feel coerced)–B. Does the act feel pleasurable to all involved?
(no partner should be feeling pain during the activity)–C. Does the act feel emotionally/psychological good to all?
(no partner should feel shame, feel coerced, or feel reluctant;
all partners should feel joy and have an open heart)11. The same warnings about genital sex apply to anal sex:
–If you do it, do it in moderation.
–Too frequent sexual activity depletes energy.
–Regular ejaculation by the giver can deplete his energy12. Just as women receive a burst of sexual energy from a male partner
if/when the partner ejaculates into her, the recipient of anal sex
(be it a man or a woman) receives the same said burst if/when the
partner ejaculates into the anus. Thus, for the same reasons as
genital sex, the giver should conserve the number of such ejaculations.13. The sexual energy that is being transmitted between the two
partners during anal sex can be circulated by each into the orbit,
which can be a means of capturing the energy that is activated during
the act.I hope that helps . . .
For a female perspective, maybe someone like Wendy can chime in here.Best,
StevenApril 29, 2009 at 5:27 am #31209wendyParticipantOf course I am only able to speak as a receiver and I will only speak from my own experiences.
And I see two different ways with anal sex:
1. The animal oriented sex pleasure from it, you might see porn as a sort of end point of what is reachable with it, a lust driven hunger to take and to be taken in its most raw form, often but not always related to the urge of dominate and to be dominated.
2. The energetic emotional exchange where both partners have an emotional energetic awareness of what is happening.
For a energetic emotional/sensitive female (and my very guess males as well) the boundary of the anus is one that needs A LOT of trust. A lot of emotions are stuck there (as Steven mentioned well), so activating that area has to be done with love and trust giving feelings. The way you enter the anus tells a lot of how you are as a person, caring or dominating, this underlying signal is picked up by the sensitive other. If the signal is caring there is a deepening of trust and a big chance the heart will respond accordingly, if there is the subtle signal dominate, no need to explain that the heart will react with caution.
Another issue is the ‘letting go’, some people have control issues, and can not relax the anus at all, of course penetration will cause lots of pain.
Yet some women will force themselves to give their partner the ‘pleasure’ of anal sex but are hurting their deeper sensitive self, so be very alert and caring if you observe this behavior.
Others will have issues with ‘pain’ and can not pass that boundary.
Of course these are exactly very interesting issues to work with as a couple.
The feeling with anal sex is very different than the heart centered vagina-penis connection. It is more raw and is not feeding the heart directly but indirectly through emotional trust mentioned above.
The (energetic) ejaculation of the male will reach the brain instead of the heart.
There is definite a very different connection and a very different feeling vagina-penis vs anus-penis.
The more the woman can relax with you the better the penetration can happen. First time(s) is ALWAYS painful and the way it happens will be the yes or a no of wether she wants more of it or will refuse it, unless she shuts down her deeper sensitive feelings. So being very loving and caring will give more chance for a yes in future.
For the sfincter part: that is very personal. Some people are very fine with it, can have anal sex daily without problems. Other people will suffer greatly, can not walk the day after, will have problems with bowl movement, having ruptures etc. Of course the tips Steven gave with lubricant and such are to be looked at.
So this is a very personal path you walk as a ‘couple’.
I remember Pietro mentioning his take on anal vs vagina penetration on this forum a long time ago, so you might look for it. Or maybe he can add his take on it again if still reading this forum.
A note: in some cultures or religions, like islam, they use a lot of anal sex to keep the woman a virgin for marriage.
April 29, 2009 at 11:30 am #31211Swedich DragonParticipantNot that I asked the question, but I am so impressed by the two of you answering this question. I realise why I am at the site. Thx you 2.
S D
April 29, 2009 at 5:29 pm #31213Michael WinnKeymasterJust to add a note to these two excellent answers: i’ve red that most AIDS is spread through anal sex, as the tissues tear easily and allow the virus to gain entry to the blood stream. This should be a serious consideration, i.e. both parties should get screened first even if they believe they are AIDS free.
Stephen Chang is bi-sexual, and hence his commentary in Tao of Sex is probably accurately based on personal experience.
michael
April 29, 2009 at 6:43 pm #31215StevenModeratorFor one, thank you Wendy for volunteering your response and
responding to my invitation. It’s great to get the female
view, and your words in the sexual arena are top-notch as usual.I wanted to clarify a few things with regard to the pain/sphincter part,
and as I do so, as an unspoken backdrop to the discussion, I’d like
to provide my view on how sexual play can be nourishing in and of
itself without regard to any “end goal”.At any rate, let me first begin by clarifying what I meant by “slowly”.
When I said go slowly, what I really mean is that it should be
a process over several sessions, not in the first session.
In other words, you shouldn’t be moving from “let’s try anal sex”
to actually doing it in the same night! It requires appropriate
training. Just like you don’t run a marathon without training!So really it may be a period of months before actual anal sex should
realistically be taking place. First session should involve a lot
of lubrication, gentle play outside and then not too far into the
entrance with a single finger. After getting accustomed to this
and incorporating it into the lovemaking, then in subsequent sessions
you proceed through the same stages and then try sliding the finger
in all the way and back out again a few times.Then in subsequent sessions, again starting at the beginning
and progressing to this point, then near the end of the play,
try bringing a two fingers (lubricated) into the entrance (shallowly)
–say the middle finger and ring finger as the two fingers.From this after several sessions, after reaching the same stage,
try going in deeper with the two, use the first two fingers, and/or
maybe trying a thin dildo.Only after all of this during a later session should
penile penetration be tried, and again only after building up to
that point during a particular session, and then the duration
and depth of thrusting should be short and gentle–preferably
done by the receiver and NOT the giver, i.e. the receiver controls
both the depth and speed of the thrusts. These durations can
be lengthened through subsequent sessions until full-blown
anal sex can be reached. Only a seasoned receiver should
realistically allow the giver full thrusting control, unless there
is already impeccable communication and trust between the two.
All training phases, as well as the anal sex itself, should
involve a lot of lubrication.Some people, because of emotional control issues and/or because of
physiology, will take much longer and the progression will
be a lot slower than others. But the key is to progress at the
pace that is appropriate for the receiver, not some desire
to reach the end goal.Proceeding in this way, no problems will arise.
When I hear descriptions of people suffering greatly, having
trouble walking, having a lot of pain, ruptures, and the like,
I consider that a great tragedy. It’s most likely the case that
the slow progression was not taken, but rather anal sex was
tried the first night that any anal play was done.Of course, as you point out Wendy, there is a great deal of
psychology and emotion behind anal sex, and some people are
following the animalistic raw desires and the domination/dominated
feelings, and therefore this can cause the giver or the receiver
to push too rapidly. After a period of foreplay in any given
session, the partners can get rather “horned-up”, and just feel
they want to rush to the punch-line–even though they may not
be ready. The giver may be pushy, and due to sexual desires
may be pushing to “let’s do it already”. The receiver may feel
like, “O.K., we’ve been playing here for awhile; maybe I’m not
entirely ready, and maybe it might therefore hurt a bit, but
maybe it might not be too bad and besides I want to please
my partner”. Then before you know it, things go too far too fast,
and the receiver gets hurt.The two partners need to show love and trust to one another,
and enjoy the exploration and the process that they are discovering
and experimenting with. If one or both of the partners are looking
at the end goal instead of the process, they are not doing things
in the right way, in my opinion. Two people in sexual play should
NOT be looking to get off, they should be enjoying each other and
using the sexual play to gain deeper insight into themselves and
their partners. Anything else is not heart-centered, and is
a damaging process rather than a nourishing one.One other thing that really should be considered in such an
exploration, is that AS the two partners go through their training
period, it can be enlightening and further bonding if BOTH
partners agree to go through the training process TOGETHER.
This should be a natural one for two gay males, but it should
also be seriously considered for a male-female partnership as well.
The finger and dildo training can be done with the male, just
as with the female. When the time comes for penetration,
either continued dildo use as is, or penetration through the
use of a female strap-on dildo can be used. The advantage
in training both partners is that the giver can become aware
of the types of sensations that the partner is likely to
experience on the receiving end. It can give greater
understanding as to why a lengthy training phase is indeed necessary.
Moreover, why should the giver “expect” the receiver to do
anything that the giver isn’t willing to do himself?In the case of a male-female relationship, one or both parties may not
be interested in training the reversed role for whatever reason.
Sometimes this reason is due to either the male or the female
or both, feeling that “training the male” seems “homosexual”
in some way and is inappropriate. Of course, such a decision
should be made by the two parties involved, and they should
both be happy with it, but let me just say that such a reason
is ridiculous in my opinion–as NO ACT that a man and woman
do together in sexual play can be homosexual BY DEFINITION!!
There’s nothing wrong with homosexuality anyway, but that’s
another discussion I won’t touch on.At any rate, regardless of how any such training proceeds,
the methods should be agreed upon by both parties involved. Both
people should feel joy and excitement in the mutual
exploration that they are undertaking. They should feel
a heart-centered love and trust for their partner. They
should not be working toward sexual release, but rather they
should be creating an opportunity to continue and deepen
their bonding through their exploration process. The mutual
exploration that is done in this particular process or any other
other sexual play for that matter presents a rare opportunity
for the most intimately shared exploration possible between
two beings in the bonds of love. This is how growth happens.
This is how consciousness gets raised. This is how sexual
play can enhance not diminish the spiritual vibration.S
April 29, 2009 at 6:50 pm #31217StevenModerator>>>Just to add a note to these two excellent answers:
>>>i’ve red that most AIDS is spread through anal sex,
>>>as the tissues tear easily and allow the virus to
>>>gain entry to the blood stream. This should be a serious
>>>consideration, i.e. both parties should get screened
>>>first even if they believe they are AIDS free.That, and even if the tissues don’t tear, the colon
is highly absorptive. Biologically, because of the need
to absorb water from prefecal matter from the small intestine.
Alchemically, maybe because of the lung-large intestine quality
of being a refinery/mining machine.>>>Stephen Chang is bi-sexual, and hence his commentary
>>>in Tao of Sex is probably accurately based on personal experience.Interesting to know about Stephen Chang; didn’t know that
S
April 30, 2009 at 6:06 am #31219wendyParticipantSince I am very much a feeling person my preference is anal stimulation instead of anal penetration. It is waaaaayyyyy more pleasing than actual penetration which is raw energy.
I favor the stimulation over penetration for several reasons:
1. There is no fear for damage of the sfincter – nor AIDS
2. The energy between the two people is intense yet nice without any need for pain pleasure (unless you are into that)
3. It enhances the orgasm much more nicely and more intense than penetration does, and will strenghten the sfincter since the orgasm will contract the sfincter strongly because the orgasm is stronger itself.
4. The focus is kept on the heart not on the raw animal, even trying to keep the heart in focus during penetration, the anal energy is not meant for the heart.
Note 1: when you do have anal sex, try to keep the woman (or receiving man) on the back, no doggy posture. The doggy posture is away from the heart and is not about celebrating the love, but about raw sex (of course if that is what you like, it is yours). Even doing the dog posture, which can be fun for a while, always bring the lover back on his/her back when you decide to ejaculate, this way the hearts can meet during this wonderful moment of love making.
Note 2: Stimulation means, massaging and teasing around the anal opening and/or gently pushing a finger into the sfincter opening, just that is enough to give an intense orgasm if the receiver can relax of course.
Note 3: The more refined your own energy the less you need big guns to feel or allow ‘pleasure’…
BUT it is all about balance, we have an animal body, a human body and a divine body (energy body), all can play together nicely and in tune. Playing a bit with all the parts of our being is satisfying and healthy.
May 1, 2009 at 3:15 pm #31221StevenModeratorHi SD,
I’m glad you found the discussion interesting.
I’ve tried to make a point of not shying away from
topics that some may find embarrassing. People have
too many sexual hangups, if you ask me.Personally, anal sex *isn’t* really my cup of tea
or something I anticipate doing too much of in my life,
but I still think it’s worthy of discussion and
moreover its application to Taoist sexual energy practices.PERSONAL STORY:
I took a course once whose major topic was sexuality.
In the course, there was another male I spoke with a couple
of times during breaks. It turned out that he was
secretly gay, but I didn’t know that at the time.At any rate, he told me that he felt that
certain topics weren’t being discussed and weren’t being
asked, that he had questions on. Not knowing what he
had in mind, I told him that he should just ask his
questions before the course was over–that it was
supposed to be a safe, secure environment to ask such
questions.So, anyway, toward the end of the course, he asked the
people running the course questions about *anal sex*.
Unfortunately for him, the facilitators basically
ridiculed him and didn’t really answer his questions.
Now they didn’t know that he was gay, but that’s not
an excuse either as there are plenty of heterosexual
couples that explore the practice. So in total it was
simply poor immature behavior.As a result, he felt humiliated and upset,
and I felt bad for him. It bothers me to this day, actually.My feeling is, is that even if someone has NO interest
whatsoever in anal sex, they should still be educated on it,
so that if someone else asks a question, they can give
a complete answer and be respectful while doing so.Anybody that asks a serious sexual question should be given a
serious response, as it is often hard enough for some people
to even muster the courage up to ask the question to begin with.S
May 1, 2009 at 3:39 pm #31223wendyParticipantI agree Steven, people through history and today have made and are making the most intense, the most powerful and the most beautiful energy in the universe to something pervert, ugly and something to be ashamed for. I see it as my personal humble ‘crusade’ to give that energy its rightful place, mothering it with love and care and beauty.
Its beauty and its power is so strong and so intense I understand most people can not handle it with the playful kindness and strong gentleness it deserves… the beauty of sexual energy is just astonishing and for most people hard to master, that is why it creates so much confusion and problems…
I have lots of awe and humble feelings for its power…I am a humble novice of this incredible energy… and open to its power and wisdom.
And I agree fully Steven that any question regarding to sexual practice and feelings needs to be listened to and needs to be cherished with kindness and compassion. I can not agree more.
May 1, 2009 at 11:16 pm #31225Swedich DragonParticipantHello Steven
I also agree of course ๐ If not we would have an interesting discussion! ๐
But sexual matters are not always easy to talk about. For several reasons. Being such a strong force in us, that we sometimes are ashamed of. That is we do not talk about sexual matters with for instance close relatives in a serious way, often it that kind of questions are tabuu.
About homosexuality: I never stop being fully supprised ower how people think about homosexuality. There seems to be so many people out there not accepting it at all! Oftenly enough in christian circles, but also other peoples as well. Even though one of the main ideas in Christianity is to accept everybody as Jesus did, the opposite seems to be thrue to me that in those circles for instance homosexuality is less accepted than by the ordinary man. Seems to me that there is something wrong in the whole idea complex then that those christians hang on to.
In the courses I have done in qigong and yoga there have not been much talk about homosexuality, except from one course in indian tantra I participated in a while ago. The woman holding that course where much into the thing that we should behave as woman if being a woman and as a man if being a man, taking up old fashioned romantic behaviours that kept the excitment betwean the sexes alive. I realy liked that part of the course and think that such things are important. But of course there is no need to set up limits for posible behaviours in either sex. We come to talk on homosexuality in seceral occasions during the course. It seemed to me that the teacher realy had no understunding of it and had no idea of how to answer about it. Some of her attitudes where realy against it also, since she saw the polarity betwean different sexes as the only important thing. This was the main reason I stoped going courses whith that woman, I realy not believed in her after that she showed such a narrow mainded attitudes against homooosexuality.
For me homosexuality is just one of the beatiful diversities stored in the human spirit and phsyche. How boring the life should be if everybody was the same!
I wonder if the story about the man that asked the question but get ridiculed was a reason for your quite high knowledge of a practise you not yourself are so found of?
S D
May 2, 2009 at 2:49 am #31227StevenModerator>>>I wonder if the story about the man that
>>>asked the question but get ridiculed was
>>>a reason for your quite high knowledge of
>>>a practise you not yourself are so found of?Exactly. That has a lot to do with it.
Some sexual confusion on my part is probably another . . .They say that the best way to understand others
is to understand yourself better, which is really
a yin-yang philosophy. However, at the same time,
I’ve found that the converse also holds, which
is also yin-yang–that is, sometimes you can
understand yourself better, *if* you make an effort to
understand *others* better.In my case, I have a long-time male friend (heterosexual)
that has always had a fascination with anal sex.
He is also heavily into porn, and always rents
pornographic movies where the male and female
have anal sex. He also stimulates himself
anally when he masturbates. He always got
turned on by that kind of thing, but I never
really understood it. In particular, the
few times I tried it myself privately at his suggestion,
it really didn’t do anything for me–my nerves
and/or sexual impulses don’t seem to be currently
wired that way for whatever reason. To each his own,
I guess–but that doesn’t mean I think anything
bad about those that do incorporate anal stimulation
into their sexual practices. As long as it’s not
harming anybody, I don’t see a problem with it.This coupled with seeing that other gay guy get
ridiculed in that course made me feel like I
wanted to understand it a little bit better,
if for no other reasons than to gain insight
into myself as to why I don’t have an attraction
to it and also to have greater compassion and
understanding for those that do. I also feel
its important to be approachable by others
and be able to answer sexually related questions
with compassion and not be caught in your own
personal hangups.In this particular case, it’s also probably
some guilt for unintentionally setting him up
for embarrassment–sort of feeling like if the
situation ever arose again, I could take the
person aside and say look, here’s the story
or information you were looking for.On a personal level, I don’t get aroused by
anal stimulation–maybe in part because
I store a lot of negative emotions in my colon–
it’s a dumping ground of sorts (and, as an aside,
may be a major contributor to my intestinal problems)–
so stimulation down there just stirs up the
negative emotions and so I don’t associate the
stimulation with positive arousing feelings.
Also, it probably just has to do with not being
“wired” that way to make it “feel pleasurable”–just like
some people are wired to be at a particular point on
the sexual orientation spectrum–we all have our unique
likes and dislikes.Sort of a long winded explanation, I know, but
I guess the short of it is that by understanding
those different from you, you can understand
yourself better.What I’ve come to learn in the sexual realm,
is that at its *very core*, all sexual desires
and impulses are really a desire to feel loved.
And unfortunately due to the overwhelming power
of sexual energy and confusion about what it
really is, we block that through fear, shame,
ridicule of others, and the fear of ridicule
*from* others. It’s quite sad actually.I don’t know if any of that makes any sense,
but there it is. ๐Best,
StevenMay 2, 2009 at 4:25 am #31229Swedich DragonParticipantMay 2, 2009 at 4:53 am #31231wendyParticipantAbout two years ago a gay friend needed a ‘woman’ to practice a private tantra massage course with. He asked if I was interested, not knowing anyone other who wanted to do this and since I like to push the boundaries gently I agreed to join him. To my own surprise I could not enjoy it, it was even unpleasurable. I felt that his gay poled energy was not stimulating my female energy, it was just flat. When he put his body as a counterpole on mine to make an energy circuit, it felt cold and unpleasurable. We both agreed later, after that session, that this private tantric massage was a NO for both of us, interesting to try but not satisfying energetically and even a bit repulsive.
The teacher was surprised that we did not came back for more classes.This little anecdote just made me think that maybe that is why ‘normal’ poled people react unconsciously on ‘counterpoled’ others. The energetic dynamic is not matching. Since religions have a ‘problem’ with sex in general, this underlying counterpoling might effect their ‘problem’ even deepeer, it feels to them as ‘abnormal’. As it was a bit repulsive to me, it was my own free choice being in a complete naked surrendering and very explicite touching situation, I could not help this feeling to arise in my ‘normal’ wired body. Despite my absolute openness to my gay friends, the sexual poling is just different and for narrow poled (narrow minded ๐ people just too difficult to understand in their own body/energy, creating repulsive feelings in their bodies, my guess.
We are still good friends but I don’t think I will ever agree on another tantric massage with him, yet any other massage with him is fine.
So Steven, trying to understand others to understand yourself is absolutely true and valid, it would make this world a wonderful diverse place respecting each others uniqueness/otherness ๐
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