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March 27, 2010 at 11:43 pm #33762StevenModerator
This is continued from a post below made by Chris.
I wanted to clarify what Zen is really about, because
most people who don’t do it or haven’t taken training
in it, have the complete wrong idea about what you are doing.First a couple of responsive comments to Chris’s post,
followed by a discussion of what Zen actually is, and
why it is useful for Daoists to do, even though they
have chosen Daoism (alchemical) as their primary practice.>>>I just lost track of all my thoughts, its all your fault.
That’s a good start 🙂
Sorry, but I had to note the subtle irony in your comment ^_^
>>>To me, the yin resting phase of alchemy is still dynamic,
>>>and doesn’t have anything to do with following the breath
>>>or letting go of thoughts. It’s about experiencing the
>>>qualities of energy that are in process, being more
>>>”deeply in process”. This also implies that there is an
>>>awareness that is aware of that experience, and is more
>>>deeply embodied.It is a mistake to think that Zen is about trying to
get rid of thoughts or trying to reach a neutral “still” point.
It’s more about devaluing the importance of them, of seeing
them as only thoughts and nothing more, of not allowing
such things to pull you out of the present moment.It’s also a mistake to think that Zen is “transcendent”,
of being escapist. It’s very much embodied, despite
what a lot of people think. The point is to be completely
in your body in the present moment and have full awareness
from inside your body–and not your head–of being alive.
“Be here. Right now.”Following the breath is simply an “anchor” or “tool” that
is used in the practice to help a person stay fully
in the present moment and in your body, and to not
let thoughts take you away from the present moment.
The breathing is done to the “tan-tien” (i.e. dantian)
area with the idea of bringing your consciousness more
deeply into your body’s breathing. i.e. it’s done
*to remain* in your body and to not become lost in your mind.In other words, despite misconceptions, it is a VERY embodied
practice . . . and quite the opposite from trying to escape
from something . . . almost as if you are training yourself
to avoid being *seduced by escapism*!!So it is exactly what you describe about being in
process as in alchemy.I only consider to be MORE YIN than resting in alchemy, because
in alchemical meditation (or at least I should say in my case,
but I suspect that others have this as well) that oftentimes
the mind can intervene and try to attach stories to what
is going on in process or try to take over and run the show.
Thus the Zen training has as an effect that it
trains the mind to NOT get involved or disrupt the sensation
of being embodied.Thus, if you are an academic or if you have a very busy mind
(like myself), it is ESSENTIAL practice to supplement the
alchemy, and helps you to go deeper when you actually do do
alchemy, because you notice that your mind starts to
interfere less and you can be “more in your body”.In other words, Zen training helps the alchemy work better.
This, plus the training of being more in the present and
less in your mind is beneficial for its own reward.Steven
April 4, 2010 at 1:07 am #33763Swedich DragonParticipanthttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5902279151658995270#
Amoung the white cloudsFound this video on the tao bums. It is rather interesting and they have
interviews with some hermits in the mountain.I’ve got a nice feeling from it and liked the scenary, mountain areas and beeing in the nature, doing spiritual work and body work for survival and as a spiritual practise to. I’m also a bit skeptical about to strive for the Buddha natur and to let that mean everything.
Nice film anyway, I recomend it if you have some spare time about one and a half hour.
SD
April 4, 2010 at 1:11 am #33765Swedich DragonParticipanthttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5902279151658995270#
Amoung the white cloudsFound this video on the tao bums. It is rather interesting and they have
interviews with some hermits in the mountain.I’ve got a nice feeling from it and liked the scenary, mountain areas and beeing in the nature, doing spiritual work and body work for survival and as a spiritual practise to. I’m also a bit skeptical about to strive for the Buddha natur and to let that mean everything.
Nice film anyway, I recomend it if you have some spare time about one and a half hour.
SD
April 4, 2010 at 1:17 am #33767Swedich DragonParticipantApril 4, 2010 at 11:34 am #33769StevenModeratorHi SD,
Yeah, I actually OWN this on DVD. It’s pretty good.
I’m a hermit at heart, and live the hermit lifestyle
for approximately one month per year in the winter
at a small hermitage in a remote location.I spend my time doing qigong and alchemical meditation
from the Healing Tao, listening to Michael’s CDs, reading
M. Chia’s books, reading Daoist texts (i.e. Livia Kohn books)
and magazines (Empty Vessel).While I’m there, as another practice, I do Zen meditation also . . .
However, as I’ve tried to argue, it is actually a practice that
came from Daoism originally; and moreover, it is a useful practice
for Daoists to do to supplement the alchemy, in my view.But even regardless of whether you add that on or not, the
point is that you can be a Daoist hermit instead of a Buddhist one,
so you don’t have to do it like the ones in the video do it.
In fact, Alchemical Daoism is–for the most part–a hermit
tradition . . . passed from one hermit to the next over the
centuries, e.g. One Cloud was a hermit!! M. Chia removed the
limitation to the hermit line when he learned it from One Cloud
and decided to spread it to the world, but the hermit way is
very much part of our history.If you want real acceleration, go and be a hermit and be isolated
for a month and just do practices. The stuff that you’ve got
buried and didn’t even know you had buried starts coming
up; it can get emotionally tough to stay isolated because of that;
but if you can have the courage to remain in isolation and face
your demons, along with doing more practice, then real change happens,
and you don’t leave the same person you were when you arrived.
I highly recommend it to *serious* practitioners.Steven
April 4, 2010 at 3:14 pm #33771Swedich DragonParticipantYes I can immagine the strong effect it will have on a practioner. Sounds a bit scary to me so perhaps I need it 😉
SD
April 5, 2010 at 1:00 am #33773DogParticipantApril 5, 2010 at 2:43 am #33775Swedich DragonParticipantYes wery enyoyable. Shit I have to try harder ! 🙁 🙂
SD
April 5, 2010 at 5:19 pm #33777StevenModerator -
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