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January 6, 2006 at 11:42 pm #9760DaoyuanParticipant
The best Way of Internal Cultivation
By Li Jiong
Culture includes external culture and internal culture, they both are very important to human being. In the recent centuries, the external culture has developed a lot; however, the internal culture has not developed synchronously. This is resulting in an unbalance, and it brings a lot of serious problems. It is the time to pay attention to the internal culture more, so that we can get back the balance. Furthermore, if we do not want to be vulgar in all the life, if we do not want to waste our lives in vain, if we still have the dream of immortal, doing internal cultivation is our one and only choice.Generally, we call those material developments as external culture; and call those Qi and spiritual cultivations as internal culture. As we know, all kinds of Qi gong, internal martial arts, Yoga, meditation, and religion cultivation etc., they all belong to internal culture. Internal culture is quite different with the external culture. In the external culture, the objects we research into are all objective, so long as you are enough intelligent and diligent, you will get a high achievement surely; however, in the internal culture, what we research into are the noumenon of ourselves, the challenge is not intelligence and diligence, on the contrary, often, intelligence and diligence will be an obstacle in internal cultivation. It is said there are two kinds of persons that are farthest away from the Dao, one is intelligent man, and another is busy man.
Internal cultivation is a lived culture, all its value rests with the true cultivation. If one can just talk about internal culture a lot but never engages in real practice, thatยs worth nothing. Internal cultivation has a lot of different styles and schools, such as Qi gong, internal martial arts, Yoga, meditation, and religion cultivation etc., each of them has a lot of different styles and schools again. So many choices, which course shall we follow? In all fairness, most styles or schools have some merit points, and they can benefit the practitioners a lot. However, Qi gong, internal martial arts, Yoga, and meditation are all at a low grade of internal cultivation, the achievements that those practitioners can get are limited, furthermore, when they achieve the limitation, it is very hard for them to turn back to the limitless cultivation way. Some religions may be higher, especially Daoism, but since limited by the form of religion, they are not complete after all.
In the internal cultivation circle, Dao De Jing is generally acknowledged as the top course of internal cultivation, and LaoZi’s lineage is called Wen Shi School, the cultivators of this school would not like to show themselves, therefore, they are also called Hidden Immortal School. Wen Shi School is also acknowledged as the top school of internal cultivation. Dao De Jing has been published for more than 2,500 years, but its real meaning is kept alive from teacher to student in WenShiSchool only, till about 150 years ago, Huang Yuanji wrote them on the paper, and in A.D. 1884, Huang Yuanji published this incredible book
. We are very fortunate that the best way of internal cultivation were documented. Originally, Huang Yuanji wrote this book, he just took it as the internal cultivation course to his students, instead of a book for publication. This course is very profound. Before met Huang Yuanji, his students had a good foundation of internal cultivation already. Therefore, Huang Yuanji could teach the real meaning of Dao De Jing to them directly. Otherwise, if one never has the experience of internal cultivation, it will be very hard for him to understand it. So, if you do not have a good foundation of internal cultivation yet, it is suggested to take the Gongfu Course ย Health Preservation Part & Martial Art Part first. And then perhaps we will not bring disgrace on this immortal book. Since we have to do internal cultivation to get the real happiness, why not choose the best way? The great opportunity is here, it is our fortune that we can meet it. God gives this opportunity to us, if we do not take it, we will suffer the disaster on the contrary. Be careful! Be careful!!!
5th January 2006
In Hangzhou
Quoted from
http://www.yiquando.comJanuary 10, 2006 at 2:00 pm #9761Michael WinnKeymasterHuang Yuanji’s commentary on the Daodejing looks very interesting, like he was a serious neidangong cultivator. There is a sample chapter translated, and two other chapters for sale on Li Jiong’s site.
I suggest you do NOT yet buy these initial three chapters yet (at $66), but wait for the full translation. I plan to work with Li Jiong to refine the English and make the commentary more accessible. There is no really good commentary on the DDJ that is really written for neidangong cultivators. So this could be a very interesting project.
michael
January 14, 2006 at 6:18 am #9763DaoyuanParticipantIt seems there are a few chapters are on auction separately now.
Chapter 2 which introduces the primary methods of Dao cultivation;
Chapter 3 which introduces how to make up your Jing, Qi and Shen;
Chapter 4 which introduces how to protect yourself to avoid disaster.January 14, 2006 at 10:36 pm #9765baguaParticipantHi Michael:
It seems to me Lao Zi was clear in his writings, because the taoist view contains universal correspondences, each word can be applied to many relationships, but it does not mean that was what he intended.
Don’t you think if Lao Zi was describing Taoist Alchemy in the way of a process like White Cloud’s, he would have described it in that manner? So many can take their system and use Tao Te Ching to support their view, they may share the final realization, but the journey or steps or method may be very different.
I think Tao Teh Ching is more about the natural proccess of life’s alchemy, more in line with Tolle, than specific, step by step nei gong processes and actions. In the same way the steaming process in Lessor Kan and Li and a natural process that exists, it can be clearly understood in a chinese medical book.
ba gua
January 15, 2006 at 2:03 am #9767matblackParticipantI want to quote osho to give context to what I’m gonna say.
“He [Lao Zi] was going into absolute aloneness in the Himalayas, but he was caught on the border. And the man who caught him on the border is Master Kuan Yiu-hsi. He was a gaurd at the last post of the Chinese border. Lao Zi had to pass that post; there was no other way to get out of the country. And Kuan Yiu-hsi pursuaded him ‘you are going to die, you are leaving the country for ever and soon you will be leaving the body. Please write just a few words. And I won’t allow you to get out of the land if you don’t write them. This is the price you have to pay.’
And Lao Zi sat in Kuan Yiu-hsi’ hut for three days, and there he wrote the Tao Te Ching.” “……..his whole life he had declined”If the above account is accurate, it appears that (at least to some degree) Lao Zi may have been coerced into writing the Tao Te Ching. That perhaps being the case, maybe he was exercising caution by not divulging any alchemical formulae lest they be misunderstood/abused etc
This is just speculation on my part. In any case, the work itself (Tao Te Ching) is no less a most beautiful/sacred text.
mat
January 15, 2006 at 3:02 am #9769baguaParticipantHi:
I would not blindly beleive the story.
Also from his work one can clearly see Lao Zi had great compassion for humanity and indeed did leave a special gift, which for me is the same understanding as Chan.
I do not beleive the Alchemical formulas were developed at this time, not the ones we practice in the Healing Tao, so as I stated, I think people use his words to support their theory and method; there is nothing wrong wiht that, its just misleading to let people beleive alchemical formulas (as we practice) were the real meaning behind Lao Zi’ work. It is most likely evolved from the Tang Dynasty thru the Song.
bagua
January 15, 2006 at 3:19 am #9771DaoyuanParticipantPerhaps here is just another version of the story ๐
The History of Dao Cultivation
By Li Jiong
The origin of Dao Cultivation started from Lao Zi. Lao Zi was active in Zhou dynasty (about B.C. 11th century ย B.C. 3rd century), his surname is Li, and his first name is er, another name is Boyang. He was born with a hoary head, so people call him Lao Zi (old mister). In the early of Zhou dynasty, the emperor invited Lao Zi to be a senior official, but Lao Zi did not accept. Then the emperor appointed him as an official of the national library, Lao Zi had been a hermit by this. Lao Zi has many students, among them, Yin Wenshi (Mi Xi/Guan Yin Zi) and Wang Shaoyang (Xuanfu) are the top ones, and they each have the disciples. The lineage from Yin Wenshi is called Wenshi School; the lineage from Wang Shaoyang is called Shaoyang School. Lao Zi has an immortal writing Dao De Jing, it is the Bible of Dao cultivation.In all Dao cultivation schools, Wenshi School is the highest one, and Shaoyang School is the largest one.
Wang Shaoyang taught Zhengyang (Zhongli Quan), Zhengyang taught Chunyang (Lu Dongbin), Chunyang taught Wang Chongyang first, and Chongyang taught Qiu Changchun (Qiu Chuji) etc., they created the North School, in Yuan dynasty (A.D. 13th century), the North School did have millions disciples; Chunyang taught Liu Haichan, Haichan taught Zhang Ziyang, who created the South School.
Yin Wenshi taught Mayi (Li He), Mayi taught Xiyi (Chen Tuan). And Liu Haichan had also taught Neidangong to Xiyi. The two Schools had a join here. Xiyi taught Huo Long, Huo Long taught Zhang Sanfeng, who is also well-known as the initiator of internal martial arts.
It seems Huang Yuanji had never mentioned who his teacher was, but according to the Dao cultivation manner he offered in his writings, it is very close to Zhang Sanfeng. Therefore, it is inferred that Huang Yuanji is a student of Zhan Sanfeng. Huang Yuanji had commentated Dao De Jing in the middle of A.D. 19th century, and he published this invaluable book at A.D. 1884, from then on, all secrets of Dao cultivation are on the paper. However, that is a sad century for Chinese; China had been in chaos caused by war for almost 60 years. People were in a state of anxiety, they did not have the mood to engage in internal cultivation. Therefore, the great Dao has been explained clearly on the paper, it was still not spread widely.Later, the P.R. China founded, the governors took the traditional culture as a superstition, and Dao cultivation was also suppressed.
However, the Dao works in deep, the results come out slowly but surely. Nowadays, the traditional culture shines more and more in China as well as in the world. As the core of Chinese traditional culture, Dao cultivation is also like a rising wind and scudding clouds. We are fortunate to be in this great age and have a great advantage in engaging in Dao cultivation. Don’t let slip this great opportunity. If we do not cultivate ourselves now, when shall we? If we do not study Dao cultivation this life, who knows what one will be after his death!
________________________________________________________________________
Reference Books:
Dao De Jing
The collected edition of Zhang Sanfeng
The Real Meaning of Dao De Jing
Quoted from
http://www.yiquando.com/history.htmlJanuary 15, 2006 at 6:04 am #9773matblackParticipant-Hi Baugua,
I totally accept your statements.
I was raising that story only out of sheer curiosity. Osho did have a tendancy to tell some pretty ellaborate stories. I honestly hope it’s not true because as you say, Lao Zi was such a compassionate person.Thanks for chatting. – mat
January 15, 2006 at 10:52 pm #9775singing oceanParticipant>”It (inner alchemy practice) is most likely evolved from the Tang >Dynasty thru the Song.”
This is an interesting question. Given the chinese tradition of passing down meditation formulas from sage to student in strict secrecy, and not divulging these methods to the “common people” (term used by modern religious Daoists to describe non-monks/nuns), do you think Lao Zi would have included the secrets of inner alchemy meditation formulas in his book?
It appears that the concepts of yin and yang, and the five elements were present at the dawn of chinese civilization, passed down from the Wu, and the male shamans as well. These archetypal concepts are at the root of all chinese medicine, astronomy, astrology, divination, feng shui etc. The Shang Ch’ing Daoists were ingesting the essence of the sun and moon in their recorded texts written from 300-600 AD. I would say that there is a high likelihood that formulas of inner alchemy existed long before into vast antiquity.
Also don’t forget that that Qin Shi Huang Di burned thousands of texts during his reign, the Dao De Jing survived because it was thought to be a political manual of rulership
What do you think of sub-ocean sites like yonaguni, or the osireon at abydos? I do not mean to imply that these have anything to do with alchemical practice, but they do suggest highly sophisicated civilizations that existed many thousands of years before what is presently accepted as modern history. It makes me think that when people say “lets look at the facts” as recorded by what we have been able to find, there might be much more lurking beneath the surface, as well as all the stuff that has been found but conveniently ignored.
January 16, 2006 at 1:11 am #9777baguaParticipantHi:
What I said was the system of Alchemy M. Chia braught to the west, that particular method, most likely did not evolove until tang and thru song, much of chinese metaphysics evolved then.
Its clear to me Lao Zi desribed how the intellect, when over-developed is the barrier to living in the Wu Ji, his 81 chapters are saying the same thing 81 times, just in different ways. I do believe his description of how to live in the Tao is the same as the Chan/Zen perception. I have beleived this for over 25-years, and I met a Zen Master today, had a private interview and once again he comfirmed what I know to be true.
I would say people mix ideas and time frames to much in chinese history. Taists did not create Yin-Yang and Five Phases, in the warring periods it was created by Zou Yan. He founded the Yin-Yang School. Five Phase school was a separate school and they were not in harmony, later they were intergrated and in the Han put in the I Ching, before that they did not exist in the I Ching.
The Tang is about 500 AD, so it fits with what you say and what i said as far as timing goes.
If you study ancient shaman medicine and spiritual culture, it is not what most like to think it was, some are in fantasy about the past, as well as the future!
I have not studied those “cultures” you mention, so I try not to talk about things I dont know.
The early taoist were about Cosmology, not yin-yang or five phases, that was integrated later. Even Jeffrey Yuen confirms this.
Why Dao De Ching survived, I dont know, nobody can really say why. Most likely some had it hidden and resurfaced later. If someone says they know, beware of them my friend.
Alchemy, like WHite Clouds is one method, and to be honest, in my opinion not a highly effective method. Where are living examples of people that have achieved the immortality explained in the formulas?
regards,
bagua
>”It (inner alchemy practice) is most likely evolved from the Tang >Dynasty thru the Song.”
This is an interesting question. Given the chinese tradition of passing down meditation formulas from sage to student in strict secrecy, and not divulging these methods to the “common people” (term used by modern religious Daoists to describe non-monks/nuns), do you think Lao Zi would have included the secrets of inner alchemy meditation formulas in his book?
It appears that the concepts of yin and yang, and the five elements were present at the dawn of chinese civilization, passed down from the Wu, and the male shamans as well. These archetypal concepts are at the root of all chinese medicine, astronomy, astrology, divination, feng shui etc. The Shang Ch’ing Daoists were ingesting the essence of the sun and moon in their recorded texts written from 300-600 AD. I would say that there is a high likelihood that formulas of inner alchemy existed long before into vast antiquity.
Also don’t forget that that Qin Shi Huang Di burned thousands of texts during his reign, the Dao De Jing survived because it was thought to be a political manual of rulership
What do you think of sub-ocean sites like yonaguni, or the osireon at abydos? I do not mean to imply that these have anything to do with alchemical practice, but they do suggest highly sophisicated civilizations that existed many thousands of years before what is presently accepted as modern history. It makes me think that when people say “lets look at the facts” as recorded by what we have been able to find, there might be much more lurking beneath the surface, as well as all the stuff that has been found but conveniently ignored
January 16, 2006 at 4:09 am #9779singing oceanParticipantGreetings,
Thank you for your reply. I respect the fact that you have a lot of knowledge in the chinese medical and divinational traditions, but I think you glossed over a number of points I made, or maybe I did not present them clearly. I think it is generalizing to say that all the verses of the Dao De Jing say the same thing, as they all have different contexts and present different ideas, of course all leading to the same goal. I use intellect to combine all facets back into the source.
I respect that you feel you have not achieved much success through Chia’s methods, and appreciate your honesty. I am not familiar with them, but have found MWinn’s teachings of One Clouds methods mixed with Atlantean alchemy to be very effective for me. When you ask where are the immortals, do you mean spiritual or physical? The highest achievement is both, but how can you measure a spiritual immortal?
My feeling is that the Dao De Jing was written by Lao Zi from the perspective of someone who has already achieved the wu wei state (immortality), as a meditation manual with clear allusions to methods of inner alchemical cultivation (repost):
Lao Zi (Guodian Version, 300 BC):
“Heaven and earth come together and send forth sweet dew.
No one causes this to be so; of itself it falls equally on them”
(A:10, Chapter 32)“The space between heaven and earth-
Is it not like a bellows?
Though it is empty it does not collapse;
When put into motion it sends forth all the more.”
(A:12, Chapter 5)Note: these first two quotes bear great resemblance to Kan and Li practice! ๐
“There is a form that developed from primordial chaos
that was born before heaven and earth
Silent and still, it stands on its own and does not change.It can be regarded as the mother of all under heaven.
Not yet knowing its name,
we refer to it as the Dao.
Were I forced to give it a name, I’d call it the great.The great means overflowing
Overflowing means going far
Going far means to return…Humanity takes as its model the earth;
The earth takes as its model heaven
heaven takes as its model the way;
And the way takes as its model that which is so on its own.”
(A:11, Chapter 25)Note: This last verse reflects the microcosmic to macrocosmic approach of Daoist alchemy)
“One who embraces the fullness of virtue
May be compared to a newborn babe…
He can scream all day without getting hoarse;
This is because his inner harmony is at its height.That inner harmony we call the constant.
To know that harmny we call being wise.
Trying to increase your life is known as bad fortune.
And when the mind controls the qi- this we call using force…”
(A:17, Chapter 53)Note: Inner harmony and fusion of microcosmic to macrocosmic pure virtue qualities is another key aspect of Daoist alchemy.
“What is firmly implanted cannot be pulled out,
What is firmly embraced cannot be lost.
As a result, the sacrifices of your descendants will never end.If you cultivate it in your self, your virtue will be pure;
If you cultivate it in your family, your virtue will be overflowing;
If you cultivate it in your village, your virtue will be longlasting;
If you cultivate it in your state, your virtue will be rich and full;
If you cultivate it throughout the world, your virtue will be widespread.Look at the family from the point of view of the family
Look at the village from the point of view of the village
Look at the state from the point of view of the state
Look at the world from the point of view of the worldHow do I know the condition of the whole world?
By this.”
(B:8, Chapter 54)From a later translation by John Wu:
“The tao is like an empty bowl, which in being used can never be filled up.
Fathomless, it seems to be the origin of all things.
it blunts all edges,
It unties all tangles,
it harmonizes all lights,
it unites the world into one whole…”
(verse 4)(note: what is meant by “harmonizing all lights”?)
It is interesting that you said much of chinese metaphysics evolved during the Tang to Song dynasties, when later you say that the early shamanistic cultures were all about cosmology; how do you define cosmology?
About ancient cultures: how is it that highly developed civilizations appeared with no apparent precursor (such as the pyramids at giza, and the megalithic structures built below ground level next to them such as the osireon?)? Likewise, how did the Shang Ch’ing Daoists suddenly have these elaborate meditations ingesting deities, sun and moon energies, or for that matter where are the precursors to the symbolism in the Can Tong Qi whether it was written by Wei Po Yang or a number of people under that name?
My feeling is that alchemy is very old, but since written records disappear at a certain point, does that change my view? Many of the worlds cultures have an oral tradition, and never wrote their knowledge down. For us to judge or sum up a culture by their written records would be a mistake: the great pyramid and the older structures in Egypt have NO writing on them anywhere (to give an example). It is also possible that alchemy is a new evolution, or a resurfacing practice that was submerged for thousands of years. The possibilities are endless.
The bottom line is that I feel deep inner transformation, and my inner experience has become a permanent state (always in the process of change). That is what matters to me.
January 16, 2006 at 7:36 am #9781DaoyuanParticipantVery good!
Only the sage really understands the sage. It really needs courage to say I understand DDJ clearly. Sometime we think that we know everything, it is just because we know nothing.January 16, 2006 at 10:10 am #9783baguaParticipantHi Daoyuan:
I enjoy the communication, I ask one thing, if you are going to quote me or sum up my statements, please be accurate or just ask me is this what I meant.
I did not say “I did not achieve much with Chia’s Method”, pleae listen carefully, I said I have not met one person that has obtained the acheived of the last two formulas, OK… And I have asked a teacher of this method to give me one example of a living person who did, they could not. And I do think one is to be viewed by their daily life, not by nice writings.
I appreciate your thoughts on the matter of lao zi.
There is an old saying “to a pickpocket, the world are a pair of pockets”. To alchemists, all the teachings are alchemy (there style, a way to support thier view.
I beleive Lao Zi lays out what living in a natural state is and then presents many ways one is drawn out of it and then how to get back to it. He is mostly talking about the dualistic mind and how it works in its many variations. If you have not read it from that view, maybe check it out and see if you agree.
regards,
bagua
Greetings,
Thank you for your reply. I respect the fact that you have a lot of knowledge in the chinese medical and divinational traditions, but I think you glossed over a number of points I made, or maybe I did not present them clearly. I think it is generalizing to say that all the verses of the Dao De Jing say the same thing, as they all have different contexts and present different ideas, of course all leading to the same goal. I use intellect to combine all facets back into the source.
I respect that you feel you have not achieved much success through Chia’s methods, and appreciate your honesty. I am not familiar with them, but have found MWinn’s teachings of One Clouds methods mixed with Atlantean alchemy to be very effective for me. When you ask where are the immortals, do you mean spiritual or physical? The highest achievement is both, but how can you measure a spiritual immortal?
My feeling is that the Dao De Jing was written by Lao Zi from the perspective of someone who has already achieved the wu wei state (immortality), as a meditation manual with clear allusions to methods of inner alchemical cultivation (repost):
Lao Zi (Guodian Version, 300 BC):
January 16, 2006 at 11:32 am #9785baguaParticipantHi:
Just a few thoughts on your comments.
I respect that you feel you have not achieved much success through Chia’s methods, and appreciate your honesty. I am not familiar with them, but have found MWinn’s teachings of One Clouds methods mixed with Atlantean alchemy to be very effective for me.
***********************************
Do you realize M. Winn’s formulas are M. Chia’s methods, modified some, but essietially the same?When you ask where are the immortals, do you mean spiritual or physical?
**********************
I mean living spiritual acheived people.The highest achievement is both, but how can you measure a spiritual immortal?
********************************
Why would one measure an immortal? I want to see one living example of a spiritual/human immortal that attained the achievement thru these alchemical methods. I am not denying they could lead to that acheivement, I would like to know of one example in the usa.My feeling is that the Dao De Jing was written by Lao Zi from the perspective of someone who has already achieved the wu wei state (immortality), as a meditation manual with clear allusions to methods of inner alchemical cultivation (repost):
***********************************
Yes he speaks from the wu wei state, and writes about all the ways one is pulled from it and how to get back. If Lao Zi was pressured to write something before leaving society, he could have written a superficial texts, instead he wrote one of the most signfigicant texts in chinese history.regards,
bagua
Lao Zi (Guodian Version, 300 BC):
January 16, 2006 at 9:22 pm #9787singing oceanParticipantGreetings,
A few further clarifications:
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>”Do you realize M. Winn’s formulas are M. Chia’s methods, modified some, but essentially the same?”
Winn’s formulas appear to be different to me in the first level of purification in that there is more focus on the pure virtue qualities and less clenching and squeezing of muscles, producing a more flowing effect. MW’s Fusion focuses on simplicity of organ qualities rather than bringing in planets and stars into head. In the Kan and Li formulas Lesser is basically the same, with the rest differing drastically in focus on the neutral force rather than going out into space to collect energies through the pearl. I do not know Chia’s formulas in detail but do not think they go in depth into the idea of three daoist heavens, gradually returning to wuji through inner space. I think there is an article somewhere on this website that goes into this.
***
>”Why would one measure an immortal? I want to see one living example of a spiritual/human immortal that attained the achievement thru these alchemical methods. I am not denying they could lead to that acheivement, I would like to know of one example in the usa.”
My question was what is your criteria for measuring or recognizing an immortal? How would you know one if you met one? How do you know if it would be what your preconcieved ideas are for being spiritually achieved?
***
>”Lao Zi…wrote one of the most significant texts in chinese history.”
I agree! His ascension site at Louguantai resonates with a very deep spiritual vibration.
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