[bagua]

Its a nice combining of correspondences. Now what does one do with it?

There are many things like that.

[bagua]

Hello:

I suggest you focus your attention on one area at a time.

For the human body and medicine the Chinese medical term for dna is Jing, which contains the life code. In Chinese philosophy, the one (the dao) gives life to the two (Yin-Yang). In Chinese medicine, the one, which is Jing, gives life to Yin and Yang. Jing is stored in the Kidneys. In post-natal life, the two are inseparable. Jing unfolds as Kidney Yin and Kidney Yang; they unfold to provide the Yin and Yang to the entire body (especially the organs). Each organ has a function, the nature of the function can be both a deficiency or excess and Yin or Yang. Stay with this model as your foundation and you can learn all the other ideas.

The body’s Yang (includes ming-men fire) and physiological functions mingle with Yin to create.

Jing contains Yin and Yang.

The kidneys contain or house Jing, therefore, Yin comes from Jing.

Jing-Yin-the body, blood, fluids
Jing-Yang-Activity, Qi

Kidney Yin comes from Jing
Kidney Yang comes from Jing

We can view this process all existing simultaneously; its not so linear.

Also, IMHO the Chong channel is Jing in channel form. The Chong (the one) give life to Yin-Yang: The Ren and Du Channels.

If we start here, they maybe we can understand what others are saying. Often, people explain the same things in multiple ways and words. And sometimes they make stuff up.

Hope this helps.

[bagua]

Hello Ryan:

It seems to me they bifurcate life. They are very dual, which is in total contradiction to Lao Zi. They feel post-natal is post-natal. That Jing and even the Chong channel must be viewed as prenatal jing and post-natal jing. They split life into two. I don’t think this is tao.

We are an integration of heaven and earth. In this life, we need to let go of polarized ideas and actions. We practice letting go. When we let go the Dao is there. It has always been there. But we have focused on other things and lost this awareness.

In the approach they mentioned, you need to go to the early heaven to get Early Heaven Jing, as if you do not have it here. They bifurcate the inseparable nature of life. This is an artificial construct, but your Yi, the thinking mind mixes with emotions and the excitement of what might happen, and the separation occurs. The subtle issue is each person in their model is lacking, they do not have the resources or capacity to be living in the Dao now. You must do special things to create an immortal being. As you try to construct something special, it implies you are not it. And you need to get things to get it. Like getting pre-heaven jing and Yuan QI, etc.

So I ask you. Is this process of getting a dream (fantasy) or a reality?

Bagua, why do you think that “I feel under this theory, there is nothing that is pre-natal or early heaven in this life.”?

[bagua]

I feel under this theory, there is nothing that is pre-natal or early heaven in this life.

I believe this is a mistake, and opposes the fundamental insights of the Taoists. Which is the inseparable nature of Heaven/Human/Earth or Jing/Qi/Shen.

From this view, there can never be early heaven in this life. We can not have Heaven on Earth.

>>>What is Jing? Pre or post?

Good question.
I’ve never heard of it described in these terms.
According the model given above, I suppose that
jing, which corresponds to substance, would not
exist in the formless.

But again, this is just a guess.
I don’t understand his model fully.

And, of course, there are different models.

S

[bagua]

To my understanding, the way Michael uses this
terminology is as follows:

Pre-natal = Early Heaven = Formless realm
Post-natal = Later Heaven = Realm of form (Here)
*******************
I believe this is an incorrect understanding. The formless exists in this life too.

As for “yuan qi”, there can be pre-natal yuan qi or post-natal yuan qi.
*****************
I think these are made up meanings, designed to support a theory.

The post-natal yuan qi would be that generated from steaming, e.g. the mingmen fire cooking jing and generating steam example that bagua gave. The pre-natal yuan qi would be the unpolarized qi that comes in from the formless realm, it comes into you through the dantian-mingmen portal and then polarizes gets programmed upon arrival. This is the “stem cell” analogy that bagua mentioned.
***********************
What is Jing? Pre or post?

Unfortunately, different people use the terminology in different ways. Talk to several
different people and get several different explanations. So it is easy to get confused
when there is no consistency.
*********************
This is a good thing, as it alerts one to possible errors in theories. It can be the spark to a dialogue.

[bagua]

Its good you state they are your views.

I think adel was trying to understand MW’s view. I believe in that view the souls experience life, these experiences are processed. If we do alchemy, they are processed in a way that benefits your life, and your spirit, which allows you to transform and grow.

If you don’t process them well, you get bogged down and stuck and trapped in them.

So your experiences in life and your ability to process them contributes to your spiritual growth and immortality. Six healing sounds, fusion 1.

If anybody wants to add to that please do.

[bagua]

I think some take great liberty in how they define terms. They in a way make them up.

It seems in michael view, there can be no pre-natal, early heaven and pre-heaven energies in our current life. Well, can there be immortals in this life, on this planet? If yes, dont they have these early heaven energies?

bagua

To add on to what has already been mentioned . . .

To my understanding, the way Michael uses this
terminology is as follows:

Pre-natal = Early Heaven = Formless realm
Post-natal = Later Heaven = Realm of form (Here)

As for “yuan qi”, there can be pre-natal yuan qi
or post-natal yuan qi. The post-natal yuan qi
would be that generated from steaming, e.g. the
mingmen fire cooking jing and generating steam
example that bagua gave. The pre-natal yuan qi
would be the unpolarized qi that comes in from
the formless realm, it comes into you through
the dantian-mingmen portal and then polarizes
gets programmed upon arrival. This is the
“stem cell” analogy that bagua mentioned.

Unfortunately, different people use the
terminology in different ways. Talk to several
different people and get several different
explanations. So it is easy to get confused
when there is no consistency.

Qi,
Steven

[bagua]

This is where I tend to disagree with your view. This view is dualistic. We live in a life that contains pre and post natal influences. The only way we can connect to or cultivate Yuan Shen is if we have Yuan Shen inside us. Yuan Qi comes from the kidneys, post-natal comes from the spleen/stomach and Lungs: Gu Qi and Zong Qi.

Heaven/Human/Earth. The all exist at the same time in each of us. Our cultivation/Humanity, gathers heaven and earth in our body. Our body is the vessel of pre-natal and post-natal energies.

Our body contains Tai Ji, Yang/Yin/Yuan

[bagua]

Hi Adel:

I will give my view on the take of some on this forum. If someone wants to add something please do.

Much easier to understand now. What about Yuan Chi? My understanding
was that it was neutral in the sense that it is chi that has not
quite been polarized yet, but not totally neutral in the sense that
because it is in this plane (5 phase) that there has to be a certain
amount of polarization. (?)
***********************
In the model they use here, they split the universe in at least two realms. Pre=heaven and Post-heaven, or Early and Later Heaven.

They like to make correspondences between the two realms. In our life now. Yuan Chi is created all the time, it is the ming-men fire cooking Jing/Essence, which creates a steam, which is Yuan Qi. It is the Qi from Jing that is housed in the kidneys. It is believed we have a limited amount in our body at birth. A healthy person has enough for our allotted 100 years.

What some present here is there is a Yuan Qi (Original Qi) of nature, we can call this the early heaven realm. It is not in our body. And it is proposed we can access it and gather it to nourish and rejuvenate our body and sprit. And connecting to it connects us to this other realm. The quality of this Qi is non-polar or limited polarity. It can take any form, like a stem cell. In theory, it would be like Wu Ji, it can become anything.

In there view, they seek to connect to the other realm to support “growth” in this realm. This idea is part of indigenous Chinese culture, where there was ancestor worship and medicine. A goal was to communicate with the ancestors and appease the ancestors, which then will create auspicious harvests, fertility and longevity. So in the view here, they want to connect to immortals, beings, planets and stars, instead of ancestors, and connect to Qi, instead of the Gods we find in Taoism that follows this way.

Hope this helps.

David

[bagua]

Hi Adel:

I will give my view on the take of some on this forum. If someone wants to add something please do.

Much easier to understand now. What about Yuan Chi? My understanding
was that it was neutral in the sense that it is chi that has not
quite been polarized yet, but not totally neutral in the sense that
because it is in this plane (5 phase) that there has to be a certain
amount of polarization. (?)
***********************
In the model they use here, they split the universe in at least two realms. Pre=heaven and Post-heaven, or Early and Later Heaven.

They like to make correspondences between the two realms. In our life now. Yuan Chi is created all the time, it is the ming-men fire cooking Jing/Essence, which creates a steam, which is Yuan Qi. It is the Qi from Jing that is housed in the kidneys. It is believed we have a limited amount in our body at birth. A healthy person has enough for our allotted 100 years.

What some present here is there is a Yuan Qi (Original Qi) of nature, we can call this the early heaven realm. It is not in our body. And it is proposed we can access it and gather it to nourish and rejuvenate our body and sprit. And connecting to it connects us to this other realm. The quality of this Qi is non-polar or limited polarity. It can take any form, like a stem cell. In theory, it would be like Wu Ji, it can become anything.

In there view, they seek to connect to the other realm to support “growth” in this realm. This idea is part of indigenous Chinese culture, where there was ancestor worship and medicine. A goal was to communicate with the ancestors and appease the ancestors, which then will create auspicious harvests, fertility and longevity. So in the view here, they want to connect to immortals, beings, planets and stars, instead of ancestors, and connect to Qi, instead of the Gods we find in Taoism that follows this way.

Hope this helps.

[bagua]

Hi Adel:

I will give my view on the take of some on this forum. If someone wants to add something please do.

Much easier to understand now. What about Yuan Chi? My understanding
was that it was neutral in the sense that it is chi that has not
quite been polarized yet, but not totally neutral in the sense that
because it is in this plane (5 phase) that there has to be a certain
amount of polarization. (?)
***********************
In the model they use here, they split the universe in at least two realms. Pre=heaven and Post-heaven, or Early and Later Heaven.

They like to make correspondences between the two realms. In our life now. Yuan Chi is created all the time, it is the ming-men fire cooking Jing/Essence, which creates a steam, which is Yuan Qi. It is the Qi from Jing that is housed in the kidneys. It is believed we have a limited amount in our body at birth. A healthy person has enough for our allotted 100 years.

What some present here is there is a Yuan Qi (Original Qi) of nature, we can call this the early heaven realm. It is not in our body. And it is proposed we can access it and gather it to nourish and rejuvenate our body and sprit. And connecting to it connects us to this other realm. The quality of this Qi is non-polar or limited polarity. It can take any form, like a stem cell. In theory, it would be like Wu Ji, it can become anything.

In there view, they seek to connect to the other realm to support “growth” in this realm. This idea is part of indigenous Chinese culture, where there was ancestor worship and medicine. A goal was to communicate with the ancestors and appease the ancestors, which then will create auspicious harvests, fertility and longevity. So in the view here, they want to connect to immortals, beings, planets and stars, instead of ancestors, and connect to Qi, instead of the Gods we find in Taoism that follows this way.

Hope this helps.

[bagua]

Hi Adel:

I will give my view on the take of some on this forum. If someone wants to add something please do.

Much easier to understand now. What about Yuan Chi? My understanding
was that it was neutral in the sense that it is chi that has not
quite been polarized yet, but not totally neutral in the sense that
because it is in this plane (5 phase) that there has to be a certain
amount of polarization. (?)
***********************
In the model they use here, they split the universe in at least two realms. Pre=heaven and Post-heaven, or Early and Later Heaven.

They like to make correspondences between the two realms. In our life now. Yuan Chi is created all the time, it is the ming-men fire cooking Jing/Essence, which creates a steam, which is Yuan Qi. It is the Qi from Jing that is housed in the kidneys. It is believed we have a limited amount in our body at birth. A healthy person has enough for our allotted 100 years.

What some present here is there is a Yuan Qi (Original Qi) of nature, we can call this the early heaven realm. It is not in our body. And it is proposed we can access it and gather it to nourish and rejuvenate our body and sprit. And connecting to it connects us to this other realm. The quality of this Qi is non-polar or limited polarity. It can take any form, like a stem cell. In theory, it would be like Wu Ji, it can become anything.

In there view, they seek to connect to the other realm to support “growth” in this realm. This idea is part of indigenous Chinese culture, where there was ancestor worship and medicine. A goal was to communicate with the ancestors and appease the ancestors, which then will create auspicious harvests, fertility and longevity. So in the view here, they want to connect to immortals, beings, planets and stars, instead of ancestors, and connect to Qi, instead of the Gods we find in Taoism that follows this way.

Hope this helps.

[bagua]

Hi Adel:

I will give my view on the take of some on this forum. If someone wants to add something please do.

Much easier to understand now. What about Yuan Chi? My understanding
was that it was neutral in the sense that it is chi that has not
quite been polarized yet, but not totally neutral in the sense that
because it is in this plane (5 phase) that there has to be a certain
amount of polarization. (?)
***********************
In the model they use here, they split the universe in at least two realms. Pre=heaven and Post-heaven, or Early and Later Heaven.

They like to make correspondences between the two realms. In our life now. Yuan Chi is created all the time, it is the ming-men fire cooking Jing/Essence, which creates a steam, which is Yuan Qi. It is the Qi from Jing that is housed in the kidneys. It is believed we have a limited amount in our body at birth. A healthy person has enough for our allotted 100 years.

What some present here is there is a Yuan Qi (Original Qi) of nature, we can call this the early heaven realm. It is not in our body. And it is proposed we can access it and gather it to nourish and rejuvenate our body and sprit. And connecting to it connects us to this other realm. The quality of this Qi is non-polar or limited polarity. It can take any form, like a stem cell. In theory, it would be like Wu Ji, it can become anything.

In there view, they seek to connect to the other realm to support “growth” in this realm. This idea is part of indigenous Chinese culture, where there was ancestor worship and medicine. A goal was to communicate with the ancestors and appease the ancestors, which then will create auspicious harvests, fertility and longevity. So in the view here, they want to connect to immortals, beings, planets and stars, instead of ancestors, and connect to Qi, instead of the Gods we find in Taoism that follows this way.

Hope this helps.

[bagua]

Hi Adel:

I will give my view on the take of some on this forum. If someone wants to add something please do.

Much easier to understand now. What about Yuan Chi? My understanding
was that it was neutral in the sense that it is chi that has not
quite been polarized yet, but not totally neutral in the sense that
because it is in this plane (5 phase) that there has to be a certain
amount of polarization. (?)
***********************
In the model they use here, they split the universe in at least two realms. Pre=heaven and Post-heaven, or Early and Later Heaven.

They like to make correspondences between the two realms. In our life now. Yuan Chi is created all the time, it is the ming-men fire cooking Jing/Essence, which creates a steam, which is Yuan Qi. It is the Qi from Jing that is housed in the kidneys. It is believed we have a limited amount in our body at birth. A healthy person has enough for our allotted 100 years.

What some present here is there is a Yuan Qi (Original Qi) of nature, we can call this the early heaven realm. It is not in our body. And it is proposed we can access it and gather it to nourish and rejuvenate our body and sprit. And connecting to it connects us to this other realm. The quality of this Qi is non-polar or limited polarity. It can take any form, like a stem cell. In theory, it would be like Wu Ji, it can become anything.

In there view, they seek to connect to the other realm to support “growth” in this realm. This idea is part of indigenous Chinese culture, where there was ancestor worship and medicine. A goal was to communicate with the ancestors and appease the ancestors, which then will create auspicious harvests, fertility and longevity. So in the view here, they want to connect to immortals, beings, planets and stars, instead of ancestors, and connect to Qi, instead of the Gods we find in Taoism that follows this way.

Hope this helps.

[bagua]

Hi Adel:

I will give my view on the take of some on this forum. If someone wants to add something please do.

Much easier to understand now. What about Yuan Chi? My understanding
was that it was neutral in the sense that it is chi that has not
quite been polarized yet, but not totally neutral in the sense that
because it is in this plane (5 phase) that there has to be a certain
amount of polarization. (?)
***********************
In the model they use here, they split the universe in at least two realms. Pre=heaven and Post-heaven, or Early and Later Heaven.

They like to make correspondences between the two realms. In our life now. Yuan Chi is created all the time, it is the ming-men fire cooking Jing/Essence, which creates a steam, which is Yuan Qi. It is the Qi from Jing that is housed in the kidneys. It is believed we have a limited amount in our body at birth. A healthy person has enough for our allotted 100 years.

What some present here is there is a Yuan Qi (Original Qi) of nature, we can call this the early heaven realm. It is not in our body. And it is proposed we can access it and gather it to nourish and rejuvenate our body and sprit. And connecting to it connects us to this other realm. The quality of this Qi is non-polar or limited polarity. It can take any form, like a stem cell. In theory, it would be like Wu Ji, it can become anything.

In there view, they seek to connect to the other realm to support “growth” in this realm. This idea is part of indigenous Chinese culture, where there was ancestor worship and medicine. A goal was to communicate with the ancestors and appease the ancestors, which then will create auspicious harvests, fertility and longevity. So in the view here, they want to connect to immortals, beings, planets and stars, instead of ancestors, and connect to Qi, instead of the Gods we find in Taoism that follows this way.

Hope this helps.

[Author]

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