October 19, 2014 at 3:13 am #43067
A Message to Humanity!
Perhaps the most powerful possibilities are in the Albert Camus quote near the end.
Earlier, I read an article on this site, written by Michael Winn, and these words touched my heart:
“The Chinese say the group sharing opens the heart, and thus improves chi flow. Western medicine has no clear model for the connections between psychology and physical healing…”
There’s more to it than words… it seems that attacking makes the “enemy” stronger; weakening the “enemy” with strengthening the “community” seems to be the way. I say this because there are many conflicting “voices” that I don’t want to fight because I don’t understand.October 19, 2014 at 11:07 pm #43068
I will try
From: Fool Turtle
Date/Time 2014-09-02 02:57:39
Remote IP: 220.127.116.11
I said to God, Let me love you.
And he replied, Which part?
All of you, all of you. I said.
Dear God spoke, You are as a mouse wanting to impregnate
a tiger who is not even in heat. It is a feat way
beyond your courage and strength.
You would run from me
if I removed my
I said to God again,
Beloved I need to love you every aspect, every pore.
And this time God said,
There is a hideous blemish on my body,
though it is such an infinitesimal part of my Being-
could you kiss that if it were revealed?
I will try, Lord, I will try.
And then God said,
That blemish is all the hatred and
cruelty in this
~ Saint Thomas Aquinas
from Love Poems from God, by Daniel Ladinsky
The first time I read this poem, it moved me deeply, and it moves me now. Why? I don’t know. It is an imperfect poem, and I love it. It works even better for me when I change the last word (world) to my name.
Today’s wisdom: (55) Fool Turtle (57) – – 2014-08-16 01:12 am
question of “the self”: the whole point: (28) ribosome777 (476) – – 2014-08-26 10:36 pm
true* self (n/t): (18) ribosome777 (476) – – 2014-08-26 10:37 pm
I don’t know: (23) Fool Turtle (57) – – 2014-09-02 02:48 am
I will try: (23) Fool Turtle (57) – – 2014-09-02 02:57 am
I will try: (24) Steven (2311) – (Training Log) – 2014-09-02 1:48 pm
Yes. Why?: (28) Fool Turtle (57) – – 2014-09-03 04:37 am
Yes. Why?: (27) Steven (2311) – (Training Log) – 2014-09-03 0:31 pm
Lao Tzu asked, “Can you play the part of a woman?” : (16) Fool Turtle (57) – – 2014-09-04 02:18 am
Not a poem; rather, one of your posts (thanks to Adel, too): (16) Fool Turtle (57) – – 2014-09-04 11:36 pm
[Top of List] [Previous Thread] [Next Thread]October 20, 2014 at 11:59 pm #43070
Very inspirational video.
If only it were so simple . . .
In fact, I would say the proposed solution that one could mistakenly pick up on in this video is unfortunately part of the underlying problem.
Let me explain . .
The problem is, is that every individual is caught in one’s own issues, which create a sense of fear and insecurity. Those with the most fear and insecurity project their personal view onto the world, trying to force everyone else to follow suit. This is the real source of greed and power-trips: fear and insecurity.
I don’t believe that simply saying “community” and “helping” is the answer.
The problem is, is that every individual is caught in ones’ own issues. This creates a view of community that does not match with the views that others have on community. For example, members of the Islamic state feel community with one another and feel united, but I have no interest in being a part of that community. In particular, their vision of how to live life does not match mine. I do not find their restructuring of society to be helpful–even though they do–and would believe that it is for everyone’s good. The problem is, is that their community is still underlying a massive amount of fear and insecurity–it is just disguised. The common fear and insecurity in any of these cases is really the fear and insecurity that one’s current existence can change over time (i.e. its not in their control–or “God’s control”). Thus the fear we are talking about here is the real fear that drives greed: the fear of change, i.e. the fear of the Tao, i.e. the fear of the unpredictable ever-changing nature of life. The real source of the problem: the lack of the acceptance of the Tao.
In any of these cases, this fear drives groups to try to take over everywhere else to “force” people into their idea of community. This is true whether we are talking about a religiously organized group (such as the Islamic state) or not . . . consider Hitler’s 3rd Reich, for example. All of these “uniting” groups believe(d) that they were/are doing “good” from their perspective. Even if the people they are forcing “don’t like it”! From their perspective, they are doing it to the others “for their own good” . . . and: “They just don’t know it.” Either that, or they are trying to control as many resources as possible [i.e. greed] in the false hope that it will slow the natural erosion of personal stability that comes about through the natural change of the Tao.
The point is this:
“Let’s unite” for a common goal of “goodness” ends up creating the same problem that you are trying to solve in the first-place. This is why we have a whole human history of wars. It is on-going and never-ending. Each new revolution becomes a new poison. Each new group thinks they have it solved . . . but ultimately, it is the same old story. A sad commentary on human existence of continually trying to right the wrong’s of the old, which just creates more wrongs. An unending cycle.
The only real solution is to *not* unite, but instead for each individual to fully commit themselves to confronting, transforming, and processing all of their unresolved personal issues. Work toward clearing away the negative emotions of fear and insecurity (which drive all the other negative emotions of anger, rage, worry, sadness, etc.) so that the true virtue qualities of the five shen can arise naturally. [Note: This “clearing away of personal issues and clearing away of negative emotions” is really just a personalized aspect of “harmonizing with the Tao”. In essence, they are the same thing . . . when you accept “what is”, fear and insecurity dissipate naturally]
Meanwhile the emotional expressions of others should be treated as external to you. They are the expressions of the projections of their issues–the lack of their inability to harmonize with the Tao; they are not your issues. It is important to maintain that boundary . . . while at the same time, having compassion for their difficulty–a recognition that we are all in it together. If each person simply did this, the outer crazy behavior in society would naturally diminish and harmonize on its own.
Of course . . . no one is a Buddha. However, everyone has the possibility of progress. This is true no matter what level you are at. Such progress may not necessarily be linear–and it is likely to not be–but with devotion, progress will be had.
If you fully accept with no fear or insecurity the natural flow of the Tao, you feel no need to try to exhibit any false control over anyone else. The harmony ends up simply being a consequence. If you instead are striving to achieve harmony, you will never reach it; this is because the very process itself (of trying to achieve harmony) is–by its very nature–disharmonious.
StevenOctober 21, 2014 at 9:44 am #43072
I agree with Steven, but certainly easier said than done (on a large scale society basis).
Your description of the attempts to “right the old’s wrongs” reminds me of The Who song “Won’t get fooled again:”
Meet the new boss…same as the old bossOctober 22, 2014 at 7:43 am #43074
My mind cant answer when you call
If it did Id be stealing your life from you
In general, I agree with you. More importantly, I learn from you and anyone kind enough to show me what I do not know or cannot see. It’s interesting that the last image in the video was that of a smiling baby…
Do you vote, I wonder? If so, your decisions affect metheoretically. At least you’re not a fundamentalist…
I need some time to organize and summarize my thoughts in order to communicate just why that I am grateful for your response (words are failing, just now). I’ll do my best to attend to the devil (in the details), but for the moment…
Rules for the Painter
The person who does not love to the same degree all things present in the art of painting will not be a Universalist; It is the same with the one who does not like landscapes and considers they merit only a brief and simple study. As the master Boticelli stated, such a study is useful because just by throwing a sponge soaked with various colors against a wall to make a stain, one can find a beautiful landscape. If it is true that in this stain various inventions can be discerned, or rather what one wants to find in it, such as battles, reefs, seas, clouds, forests and other similar things, then surely, this is like the ringing of bells in which one can understand whatever one wants to. But, even though these smears of color provide you with inventions, they also show you that they do not come to represent anything in particular…
A Way to increase and bring out the genius in some of the inventions
I will not forget to insert into these rules, a new theoretical invention for knowledges sake, which, although it seems of little import and good for a laugh, is nonetheless, of great utility in bringing out the creativity in some of these inventions. This is the case if you cast your glance on any walls dirty with such stains or walls made up of rock formations of different types. If you have to invent some scenes, you will be able to discover them there in diverse forms, in diverse landscapes, adorned with mountains, rivers, rocks, trees, extensive plains, valleys, and hills. You can even see different battle scenes and movements made up of unusual figures, faces with strange expressions, and myriad things which you can transform into a complete and proper form constituting part of similar walls and rocks. These are like the sound of bells, in whose tolling, you hear names and words that your imagination conjures up.
Dont underestimate this idea of mine, which calls to mind that it would not be too much of an effort to pause sometimes to look into these stains on walls, the ashes from the fire, the clouds, the mud, or other similar places. If these are well contemplated, you will find fantastic inventions that awaken the genius of the painter…
The artists private life and choice of company.
of the life of the painter in the country.
A painter needs such mathematics as belong to painting. And the absence of all companions who are alienated from his studies; his brain must be easily impressed by the variety of objects, which successively come before him, and also free from other cares. And if, when considering and defining one subject, a second subject intervenesas happens when an object occupies the mind, then he must decide which of these cases is the more difficult to work out, and follow that up until it becomes quite clear, and then work out the explanation of the other. And above all he must keep his mind as clear as the surface of a mirror, which assumes colours as various as those of the different objects…
Taken from The Notebooks of Leonardo da Vinci edited by Jean Paul Richter, 1880.
“Inner-Alchemy-Just-Practice Taoists combine all the things that are effective. They take out what is not necessary, including all rituals and ceremonies. They go to the mountains, practice and come down to teach and help people.”
– Grandmaster ChiaOctober 22, 2014 at 4:12 pm #43076
>>>Do you vote, I wonder?
>>>If so, your decisions affect metheoretically.
>>>At least you’re not a fundamentalist…
Yes, I do. In fact, I never miss an opportunity to vote.
In fact, I have rather strong views as to who I would like to be in office, amongst the limited choices that we are provided.
However, it only has an effect if millions of others resonate with my perspective. Other than that, it is simply casting my voice to the universe, expressing my opinion as to what I would hope for . . . not unlike this forum here. 😉
If each person simply works on themselves to raise themselves to a higher vibration, this collective aggregate of all of these voices will sum up to something more harmonious. This is the more natural approach (in my view) as opposed to trying to get everyone to (artificially) unite in one common theme. The latter is artificial because it is a fear-based attempt to flatten the natural individuality and inherent variability within each individual. Ultimately, this latter approach is “disguised” resistance to “what is”.
However, it should not be mistakenly inferred that “not subscribing” to “collective views” is apathy. I have no issues with contributing to the collective . . . so long as it is the voice of the individual that makes that contribution rather than that of a unifying group. In fact, I think it IS useful to cast your voice in the form of a vote because it is an empowered way of showing the universe . . . what it is, that you want.
Now once this individual voice is cast, then one should release any expectations or attachments to any outcomes. Whatever unfolds after you express your wish is not under your control and not your free choice. It is only a question as to how much resistance you will express as this new unfolding occurs.
>>>”Inner-Alchemy-Just-Practice Taoists combine all
>>>the things that are effective. They take out
>>>what is not necessary, including all rituals
>>>and ceremonies. They go to the mountains,
>>>practice and come down to teach and help people.”
>>>- Grandmaster Chia
I expect that you included this quote and highlighted the word help as a way to indicate that you suspect my opinion to be in contrast with that of the HT lineage.
The problem is, is that the word help means different things to different people. To some, it means giving people what they want. To other people, it means giving people what they *don’t* want, but what you think they need.
All of these are dangerous.
If a person is broke and they ask for money, do you give them what they want?
If you do give them what they want, it may only delay the inevitable and they still have not solved the underlying problem. So in a way, you weren’t really helping; you were actually keeping them in a dysfunctional suffering mode, which is not helpful! On the other hand, if you don’t give them what they want (because you want to help them evolve into a new direction), are you being “unkind”? Maybe you didn’t give them what they wanted because you firmly believed you were giving them something else that they needed (i.e. the push to make a change in their lives) . . . OR was this reason all just a personal rationalization on your part for being selfish? This latter possibility of selfishness is also very pervasive. It is simply greed, i.e. disguised fear.
Let me give another example.
If a heroin addict is craving heroin and going through severe physical withdrawals . . . suppose that they want you to alleviate their suffering by you helping them to get heroin. If you give them what they want, are you helping? You are certainly giving them what they want! Moreover, you are alleviating their suffering in the short-term . . . but are you *really* helping? On the other hand, if you refuse–which forces them to go through withdrawal–they may accuse you of you turning your back on them, refusing to alleviate their suffering. I.E. “Why won’t you help me?”
These examples illustrate that simply giving someone what they want is not help necessarily. However, this realization also causes a big problem. One can then mistakenly believe that the true answer is to not give people what they want, but to give them what you think they need. The problem with this approach is exactly the problem I illustrated in my first argument against “uniting” and using “helping” as a unifying theme. Hitler’s 3rd Reich and Islamic State–as in the two examples I gave–all strongly believe(d) that they “know what’s best for the people, even if the people don’t want it”. You see the problem? Thus this vague idea of “helping” is very dangerous, especially since each individual has their own views as to what “helping” means. Neither “a person’s request for help” nor “your idea of help” is necessarily really what is best for the other person’s evolution, in any sort of holistic Daoist harmony-based way. In fact, I feel it is an arrogant aspect of the human condition that makes us all feel as if we are somehow able to act as savior for someone else to begin with.
If you really stop and think about all the possibilities, you can realize that it is not really clear *at all* what is actually the correct choice (when the option for “help” presents itself). This goes back to the whole argument for each person to work on themselves. As each person does this, and you rise to a higher vibration, your decision-making ability will naturally improve. It will improve in the sense that your choices will more accurately express the virtue qualities of the five shen. They will be more of an authentic expression of the Tao, rather than some ego-based action.
The only *true* help in my opinion is to help point others in a direction that might lubricate their own evolution . . . one that can help bring them to a higher level of consciousness. This, coupled with the compassion of listening . . . of “helping” them to feel not so alone in their difficulty. Difficulty is something we all share!
To summarize, this quote above of Master Chia’s can be kind of misleading. What does “help people” really mean? In other words–my point is–it may not mean what you assume it to mean.
StevenOctober 24, 2014 at 10:45 am #43078
Some rituals are not only rituals, but dynamic mnemonic system for more advanced internalized practices.
So combined use of mantras, mudras and visualizations can be a method to preserve information.
HOWDYOctober 26, 2014 at 2:35 am #43080
Immortal Taoist Rituals
The absence of any definition is not only characteristic of Taoist philosophy, but also of the practice of Taoism and of its very existence in the world. For almost two thousand years now, the people have lived in communities organized around the local temple, observing festivals and holding ceremonies that correspond to the liturgical structures of Taoism and calling on its masters without, however, professing the “Taoist religion” in a conscious way.
Healing Light of the Tao: Foundational Practices to Awaken …
Mantak Chia – 2008 – Body, Mind & Spirit
There is no need to depend on statues, temples, ceremonies, and rituals to aid in your spiritual growth.
Taoist Master School – Mantak Chia Universal Healing Tao
Oct 4, 2012 – The chapter goes on to outline rituals, ceremonies and meditations that are affirmations …
Words are slippery.
Give up learning, and put an end to your troubles.
Is there a difference between yes and no? Is there a difference between good and evil?
I alone am drifting, not knowing where I am. Like a newborn babe before it learns to smile, I am alone, without a place to go.
I am a fool. Oh, yes! l am confused
Other men are sharp and clever, But I alone am dull and stupid.
Oh, I drift like the waves of the sea, Without direction, like the restless wind.
I am different. I am nourished by the great mother.
– Tao Te Ching
Living by what the scholars, the experts, or the moralists say will not nourish ones Soul or Spirit.
Wise ones detach themselves from outer authority and family expectations and live by the guidance of Original Spirit, which communicates through the heart.
Often this means being adrift, living with uncertainty and ambiguity. After all, it takes time for the necessary components of a major life event to assemble, integrate, and emerge. As we drift, trusting we will find what we need, others will consider us dull witted, naive, weak, and foolish.
Humor is a marvelous form of detachment; we have to back off from a problem in order to laugh at it. Gentle, non-sarcastic humor lightens every interaction. It can even resolve a conflict amiably. And gently laughing at our own failings, our fears, and our blunders keeps us humble, balanced, and positive. Daring to be different, we are nourished by the great mother.
– Excerpt from Mantak Chias book Emotional Wisdom.
Buy it Here http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Wisdom-Daily-Transforming-Depression/dp/1577316126
This morning, I was sure that the pieces of text that I was copying and pasting were just right to respond with. Then I realized that I was dreaming, and the words were from the Interwebs within.October 26, 2014 at 3:11 am #43082
What if only two are voting? Or 3?
If you have come here to help me, you are wasting our time.
But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together.
– Lilla Watson has said of this quote that she was “not comfortable being credited for something that had been born of a collective process” and prefers that it be credited to “Aboriginal activists group, Queensland, 1970s.” [My mom sent me this quote today.]
To summarize, this quote above of Master Chia’s can be kind of misleading. What does “help people” really mean? In other words–my point is–it may not mean what you assume it to mean. And that, to me, is the beauty of Ikkyu’s poem, Leonardo’s words (italics added by me), your response, etc.
It would be quite enjoyable to discuss this, and listening to your wisdom could prove enlightening. Something odd is happening to me, now, and… talk does not cook the rice, although it has given me some recipes to try. Writing is a more limited form of communication than conversation (hand gestures, smiles, laughter, serious tones, illustrations…) and I think it’s good practice, but right now…
Thanks for all the good and helpful posts you’ve made, here.October 26, 2014 at 9:57 am #43084
In terms of kyérim―generation or development phase of practice, the goal of which is to purify our perception into the purity of our inherent nature―samayasattva ( Tib. དམ་ཚིག་སེམས་དཔའ་ , Wyl. dam tshig sems dpa) ―commitment being―is when we arise in the form of the deity, having first practised the three samadhis.
(Sanskrit). Awareness-being, a term used in later tantric Buddhism to denote the true form of a deity (devatā) as an aspect of enlightenment (bodhi). The awareness being was often summoned to merge with the samaya-sattva, or visualized image of the deity, as a part of the process of worship (pūjā) or self-transformation.
Sorry but my short comment was only against the claim that rituals are supposedly absolutely unuseful.
Ritualized use of mantra, mudra and mandala are at the same time method of teaching, mnemonics and practice.
HOWDYOctober 30, 2014 at 4:54 am #43086
>>>What if only two are voting? Or 3?
Somewhat of an unrealistic situation given the broad community of millions.
However, if everyone else (except for 2 or 3) chose to be apathetic, then that is also their free choice. 🙂 They have that right also. However, when you make a choice, you are not free from the consequences of that choice. The only thing you have control over, is your choice. Reactions of others, random acts of the Tao, etc., that follow in response, you have no control over.
If you had meant a “deserted island community” of only two or three . . . then an individual’s relationship to the community would be–by necessity–different than what we have here. Either one could simply reject the community and be a hermit, or if your survival depended on the other one or two folks, then clearly your interaction in this rarefied case would–by necessity–be different . . . in some context-specific fashion that can not be spoken about here in general terms.
Either way, these are hypotheticals–quite unreal from the actual situation at hand–and the Tao deals with reality. 😉 Behaviors need to be patterned on “what is” (the Tao!) and not what “might be”. 😉
Just giving you something to think about . . . not trying to give you a hard time. 😉
SOctober 30, 2014 at 8:21 am #43088
“If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”
The two-party system in the US is broken. Of course, I vote though, usually for what it seems like is the “lesser of two evils.” Sometimes the antics that go on in the political world make me angry, and some peoples strong political beliefs also make me angry, so I try not to discuss politics much. I have strong beliefs about certain issues and I consider myself a “clicktivist” or “slacktivist” meaning I’ll click to sign a petition or send a prewritten letter but won’t attend a rally or make calls about it. I think eventually we will reach a critical mass where the populist mindset will overthrow the old ways but I’m in no rush for a revolution or anything. It will all balance out in the end is my way of thinking…my two cents…October 30, 2014 at 2:11 pm #43090
Exactly. Choosing “not-to-vote” is a choice.
Neither one of the two political parties matches my views exactly, but one party (in particular) backs 80% of things I hate, so it makes my choice easy. Basically my level of involvement sounds like yours re: petitions. I don’t choose to involve myself further, as doing so would diminish the time I have to work on myself (which was the original thrust of this thread).
HOWEVER: I don’t think the two-party system is broken.
True, it is likely that neither party will match one’s views exactly, but incremental change is still change. Remember that the two candidates/parties represent an aggregate sum average of all voices boiling down to just two. If the voices making up the aggregate change, so must the voices of the boiled-down two candidates/parties. In the case of Presidential election, there are primaries/caucuses within each party by which such an aggregate representative is chosen amongst sometimes widely disparate views. This, along with groundswell support, tends to form the overall “flavor” or “current” of the party.
In fact, I will go even one-step further than simply support our two-party system . . . I would actually encourage the elimination of third parties as another option entirely. The greater the presence of third (and/or fourth, fifth, etc.) parties in a final election, the more unfair the election becomes . . . and the more the final result does not match the wishes of the voters. This is counter-intuitive, but mathematically correct.
See my earlier post that explains this:
Two choices in an election
StevenOctober 31, 2014 at 1:26 pm #43092
I agree with your logic in the voting scheme of having the third party throw off the vote. And typically the third party tends to pull voters from one specific side, hence giving advantage to the other.
The problem is the way political system works. That is that big business lines the politicians pockets and they basically use them as puppets to further their agenda. And they (at least try to) buy the vote with huge ad campaigns that the sheeple believe.
If we could somehow get big money out of politics it would be better, but I don’t see that happening anytime soon. Ok I’m done…October 31, 2014 at 1:54 pm #43094
We need a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United vs. FEC and McCutcheon vs. FEC. But as the number of individual voices that echo that lament grow, eventually it will reach a critical mass.
When will this happen? . . . Who knows.
But one thing I do know is this: the Tao guarantees that things will always change.
So eventually it will all work out.
Maybe things will get worse, but if so, that is also the will of the Tao.
Cast your individual voice to the universe, and let whatever arises arise with no attachment to a particular outcome. 🙂
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