January 29, 2011 at 2:09 am #36476
My wife and I are new to Taoism. Already we have enjoyed great benefit by learning some basic principles. My case in particular, retention of my semen has made an incredible difference in my energy levels. Since my wife and I are older (48, 49 respectively) we are eager to do whatever we can to improve our health and longevity.
My question is this:
If semen retention is good for the husband, AND recirculation of that semen essence is good for the wife, is there a benefit to receive semen essence from an outside source?
Might this be similar the the notion of a Jade Dragon married to a White Tigress and she receives semen essence from the Green Dragons?
We know of a young man who is willing to help in this regard. We realize that there may be an aspect of “stealing” from him, but he says he is aware of how his contribution might effect him.
Can someone help comment please?
David, in Los AngelesJanuary 29, 2011 at 2:43 am #36477
Putting the ethics of sexual vampirism aside,
which I think is truly important to examine in and by itself,
there are all sorts of potential problems in such an arrangement.
1. Yes, extra energy is being introduced into your couple,
but what kind of energy is it? Now you no longer have
just the energy of the two of you, but someone else’s
energy signature is being introduced. Now you and your
wife would not be just sharing each other’s energy, but
this other person’s as well. You should consider that.
2. I’m assuming from your post that one of the two
of you is going to be performing oral sex on this man
and swallowing his semen. How sure are you two that
this isn’t a subconscious attempt by one (or both) of you
to find some kind of sexual satisfaction that you are
currently missing from your present relationship? How
do you know that one of you won’t develop a heart
connection with this person due to the sexual activity,
and that that ends up unraveling the primary relationship?
In general, it is very difficult to introduce a third
party into an intimate relationship, especially with sex,
and to not have that slowly unzip the primary relationship.
Couple that with introducing unknown energy into a
relationship that was previous private between two people,
and considering that it is really sexual vampirism
at its core (which has ethical issues in itself), and
to me . . . it doesn’t make for a good choice in my opinion.
But ultimately, this is just my opinion; and you two have
to do what you feel is right for the two of you . . .
StevenJanuary 29, 2011 at 3:18 am #36479
Thank you Steven. I appreciate that you answered the question directly rather than simply state that such an arrangement would be difficult. There is no question that introducing a third person’s energy into the equation can be problematic. So the question to be decided upon for my wife and me is: will the additional considerations (ethical and practical) be worth the additional energy added to us for circulation?
In this case, the third person involved is aware of the directional (vampiric?) aspect of the energy flow. He fully realizes he will be losing energy but he maintains that his young age and vitality (he’s about 27 years old) will allow for such depletions. The expectation would be that he’d perform intercourse with my wife.
As for motivation regarding the subconscious desires you mentioned in point 2 above, I don’t believe there is something missing. Rather, I emphasize my initial point–which may not have been well made: If my retention is good for me, AND my essence transferring to my wife is good for her….Therefore, adding energy to the “system” would be a net plus. (provided the challenges you mention)
Is this case analogous to the notion of Jade Dragon/White Tigress receiving from the Green Dragon(s)?
Again, thank you for answering my actual question. Other “experts” have avoided answering because they got too hung up with the challenges involved.
DavidJanuary 29, 2011 at 5:48 am #36481
I am not any kind of expert about this White Tigress practice, but I have read the first book by Hsi Lai.
I think it’s meant that one who performs oral sex is receiving the ejaculte on the skin and it’s meant that she never swallows it. That’s the scheme according the book, I think.
HOWDYJanuary 29, 2011 at 10:45 am #36483
Interesting question that could be seen from many perspectives. I am familiar with the white tigress system and have done one course with Hsi Lai but not been practising with a white tigress as a jade dragon. At least not jet.
If you want to make up such an arangement according to Hsi Lais method:
Then your wife should not have intercourse with the green dragon, but she should just be doing oral sex with hem.
To not create emotional bindings the white tigress does not meet the same green dragon for many occasions. I think it was six or nine occasion and then they have to stop for a long period of time and perhaps never continuing.
According to Hsi Lais method if I understund it the right way, the oral sex is extremely beneficial for the white tigress if accomplished in the rigth way. The reason for this is explained from this: Hsi Lai explaies that the ordinary dual cultivatiuon methods are developed to be wery beneficial for the male practioners but not as much for the ladies. The ladies sexuality is triggered energetically from the head first and then further downward thrue the body, but the males the opposite way. As compared to the yin yang symbol the yang and the yin are going upward respectively downward. If your wife “only” is going to have intercourse with the man then perhaps there isn´t any extra benefit for her at all, according to Hsi Lai, or my interpratation of hem at least 🙂
Another reason for why the white tigress shouldn´t meat the green dragon for to many times is that the energetic loss for hem might be wery unbeneficial for hem. He might get helth problems. And of course there is the same problem for a univiersal tao practioner that is a male, if she do the orgasmic upward draw with a man that is not a practioner then it is not beneficial to any of them, according to Mantak Chia. The lady will create inballances in her emotions and the male will also this time get health care problems. This is according to Mantak Chia.
I sea no reason for why you not should try to do the Hsi Lais methods with oral sex and semen into the face. But the white tigress need to learn how to take care from not getting veneral desises and also to know the practises for taking out the energy from the semen and much more. If you do this I think you should have no moral issues with it if everybody think it is a good alternative for you all. But take care of jealousy and such things and don´t let there be any emotional bindings, if so then the affaire should emediately be stopped.
Well that was my comments to you right now.
SDJanuary 29, 2011 at 12:14 pm #36485
A primary goal of Taoist practices is for you to cultivate your body by your own actions, to strengthen your body by Qi Gong and practices so it becomes a better functioning body, the only really way to do that is by Qi Gong or Nei Gong. THese practices open channels and get organs/glands etc. working well and your entire body to functioning better, this lead to health and vitality.
You are still young. There is no short cut to long lasting health and vitality. I dont think the sexual interaction you mention will help that much in the long run and there is no hurry for rejuvenating your body/mind/spirit. IMHO, Iron Shirt Qi Gong will do far more for you than the sexual interaction you describe.
baguaJanuary 29, 2011 at 12:52 pm #36487
As Swedich Dragon mentioned, it is not the same as the
White Tigress/Jade Dragon/Green Dragon setup
if your wife has intercourse with this man;
in particular, the wife is restricted to
oral sex with him in that system.
In particular, in full intercourse–esp. if
the man ejaculates into her–there is
still an energy transfer from him to her,
but there is also a potential feedback
from her back into him (via her heart
back into his). The alignment in full
intercourse increases the likelihood of this.
Moreover, full intercourse (in the same way)
increases even further the likelihood of your wife
developing heart feelings for this man.
And really this goes back to what I said earlier.
You mentioned that that there is nothing missing
in your relationship with your wife. How sure
are you that that is true with her? You may really
want to dig deeper and investigate. Not saying
that it is not possible, but it is much less easy
for a woman (in general) to detach sex from
In my opinion, this is a very dangerous game.
And you both should really *seriously* consider
how important your primary relationship to each
other really is, and whether it is worth the
risk in possibly unraveling it.
If it were me (and my relationship), I wouldn’t do it.
BUT . . . you are not me, and I get the feeling
that this is something that all three of you
are highly interested in doing. So it’s not
for me to judge. In particular, if you and
your wife strongly feel it is the right choice,
then my blessings.
But just go into it being fully aware of the
risks involved and with all eyes open, and having
discussed these things thoroughly well-in-advance
and periodically as these encounters unfold.
Best of luck,
StevenJanuary 29, 2011 at 1:02 pm #36489
I want to second what Bagua said. There is a vast supply of energy out there in the universe – trees, rocks, oceans, moon, sun, planets, space etc. The goal of Taoism is to learn to open yourself to them and experience them. At the human scale, there are also vasts amount of energy that can be shared between you and your wife, and you just need to learn to be open to them.
There are many blocks that develop between couples, and relationships offer us the opportunity to discover those blocks and release them. In fact, that is the one of the most special thing about a long-term relationship – the opportunity to have a partner who is your mirror and helps you get better. Wendy and I have found great help from using the Imago system of Harville and Helen Hendrix.
Getting sperm from some other person is like any other drug – it feels good, but it in the long run it develops a dependency in you and thus weakens you. Now, most of us do enjoy our drugs (e.g. sugar, caffeine, alcohol), and we need to learn to come into balance with them. The problem with sperm is that, like Steven mentions, it is energetically very sticky, and if your wife is extracting the energy from it well then she will become energetically very intimate with that young man. Perhaps that turns you on somehow, in which case this is an opportunity for you to explore energetically what that is doing for you, how that feeling relates to past things in your life etc. (again, the Imago method is great for exploring these historical reasons for feeling something).
best of luck,
ChrisJanuary 29, 2011 at 9:12 pm #36491
Thank you ALL for such thoughtful and useful AND respectful help. My wife and I now have a much better perspective on the use of this “Green Dragon” to help.
To summarize, it appears that the great danger is for my wife to receive the semen from intercourse. The danger being that she may develop attraction to this man. Instead, it is best she only receive the semen on her face from the Green Dragon type AND that she does not receive the semen from the same man too often.
Chris said something interesting about the potential for there to be some other aspect related to this desire. I admit to what he and Steven suggest. There is SOMETHING that is appealing about this for me. I am neither jealous nor angry about wife receiving extra semen. I feel like the Jade Dragon who is to be the voyeur and benefactor. Is not a good husband for this purpose? I ask humbley for the opinion of others.
DavidJanuary 29, 2011 at 11:21 pm #36493
There is no absolute right or wrong.
Everything depends on a specific set of circumstances
and what is right for the people involved.
In particular, I get the feeling from your posts that
actually all three of you really want to do this, and
you are just hoping that someone will give you confirmation
that it is a good idea. 😉
I.E. (and this just my impression):
For the young man, it’s free NSA fun (despite energy loss).
For your wife, it’s free energy given by extramarital sexual
activity with a young guy, but yet sanctioned by her husband
nonetheless. (dream come true?)
For you, to know that you are at the head of a sexual orchestra . . .
aroused and excited by the idea that it is all being done for
To be honest, if my impression is the least bit accurate,
then I think the three of you may NEED to do this. The desire
and sexual arousal surrounding the idea might be too strong
to say no to, and left unresolved may continue to boil
beneath the surface causing frustration for all.
Nonetheless, I *strongly* recommend that you and your wife
(and maybe the young man) sit down calmly in a NON-AROUSED
rational state and carefully consider one last time a lot
of the serious warnings I (and others) have mentioned.
Then if you both still feel that, minding certain caveats,
that you’d like to do it anyway . . .
Then: Go For It
SJanuary 29, 2011 at 11:49 pm #36495
I think you may be right, but also may be missing the point. Of course, I’d only do this if I liked it….and my wife liked it. I freely admit, I would like this.
The point is that WOULD this be an effective way to ADD energy to the equation? And you did answer that question. Thanks.
Is Taoism about circulating sexual energy while you do not like it?
Like you, I sense something here. Perhaps you are judging. I would prefer to know about HOW this may or may not help.
DavidJanuary 30, 2011 at 12:40 am #36497
The Sexual practice is not a beginning practice. Healing Sounds, Inner Smile, Micro Orbit, Fusion and Iron Shirt are really pre-requisites, does not sound like you have practiced these, they really are necessary to get any benefit from healing love.
baguaJanuary 30, 2011 at 12:57 am #36499
Thank you Bagua.
I agree that it is important to learn the fundamentals as well.
DavidJanuary 30, 2011 at 1:08 am #36501
You said in your last post:
>>>I ask humbley for the opinion of others
I wasn’t providing any judgment.
In particular, anything can be appropriate
under the right circumstances.
I was merely pushing you to examine and explore
the emotional dynamics of the situation a little bit.
The mechanics of the practice I think you’ve got down.
In particular, Daoist cultivation isn’t just
about getting more energy via sexual energy
circulation. It’s about growing who you are
as a person, and uncovering what patterns you
are trying to complete.
Getting more energy is only the first step.
Understanding why you want it, and what you
are going to do with it is the next.
But if I touched a nerve, I apologize.
My best to you,
StevenJanuary 30, 2011 at 2:45 am #36503
Thank you Steven. I appreciate your grace and wisdom here.
I agree that I must seek greater understanding and rigor in my learnings. And you are helping me to do that. It’s apparent that there are no shortcuts in this regard. I must study and practice.
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