January 31, 2006 at 12:02 am #10104
Here’s a quick question. I’m going to give a solid go at healing some scar tissue and resultant channel blockages using accupuncture, massage and chi kung techniques. It has limited my practice, and I’ve decided to target the area directly.
I’m going to begin with the Deep Healing Chi Kung. I keep seeing people refer to the Primordial Chi Kung as its early heaven compliment. Is the Primordial the same as the Tai Chi for Enlightment that I have seen mentioned earlier? If not, what are the differences? Also, any practical and personal advice one opening scar tissue blockages would be helpful.
Thanks for your time, sincerity, and practice,
PemaJanuary 31, 2006 at 7:13 am #10105
Primordial Qigong and Tai Chi for Enlightenment are identical. It has a multiple personality because wuji gong was developed by the 13th century founder of taiji (Chang San Feng), and I realized that most westerners have heard of tai chi but not qigong/chi kung. What most tai chi seekers are really looking for is wuji gong, with its extensive health and spiritual benefits, not a martial art training like taiji.
For deep dissolving of tissue, Lesser Kan & Li is the best practice. I would combine it with external herbal and massage therapy – but can’t say what regime to look for. But I am sure it exists.
michaelJanuary 31, 2006 at 7:53 am #10107
Thanks Michael, I plan on attending the retreat to learn the lesser kan and li this summer. I have been working on the fundamentals for the past few years and am trying to lay a good foundation before moving on to the kan and li. I appreciate your insight,
PemaJanuary 31, 2006 at 11:46 am #10109
I think its been many, many decades since Tai Chi classes were primarly a martial art training environment. Tai Chi training in most cases is about promoting health and vitality, building qi, circulating qi and collecting qi. Lets not forget Tai Chi is a form of Qi Gong, and is a powerful healing form, it goes extremely well with standing and sitting cultivation.
baguaJanuary 31, 2006 at 3:42 pm #10111
Taiji is a form of qigong and it is extremely beneficial for you whether it is Chen, Wu, Sun, Yang or Wudang style. It is ALL beneficial.
AMEN to that one.
And I STRONGLY believe that all qigong practise should be coupled with a good taiji form and practised diligently. Especially if you practise qigong cultivation routinely. Taiji form and tiaji ruler help immensely in correcting deviation.
Rainbows!February 1, 2006 at 1:06 pm #10113
That Tai Chi can be considered as Chikung is well accepted concept here I believe.
To Clarify a point about Wuji chikung (primordial).
This distinction is that though Tai Chi may not be practiced for martial application by many, especially in the west, it IS in fact designed for martial application. As such it has elements which are particular to that intent. Energy is projected outwards in attack and defense postures.
by contrast the Wuji chikung is designed only for gathering and collecting, spiralling ever inwards.
Therefore the intent and design of Wuji chikung is nonmartial but rather solely energetic and alchemical.
This is not a knock on Tai Chi.
This I think is the distinction M.Winn makes about Wuji chikung and it’s advantages over Tai Chi. Wuji chikung is promoted as an internal meditative form which fulfills the needs of what a majority of people are looking for when they find Tai Chi. It is a simple form, yet profound in effect.
though not a serious Tai Chi student myself, I strongly agree with RainbowBear here about the need for structural corrections to make any form more effective no matter if the intent is martial or alchemical.
CraigFebruary 1, 2006 at 1:21 pm #10115
If is it true San Chang Feng created Tai Chi and Wu Ji, do you think he created Tai Chi for martial applications or internal cultivation???
baguaFebruary 1, 2006 at 4:25 pm #10117
Tai Chi chuan
Translation: Supreme ultimate Fist.
Tai Chi IS a MARTIAL ART first.
In the context of it’s original founding it was a martial art.
I am not a serious Taichi student, but it’s basic intention is martial, despite how it is viewed in the modern world.
Studying and developing internal principles of structure and movement of energy DO develop pathways of internal cultivation.
Body/Mind/Spirit Jing/Chi/Shen are a continuum. Developing the body through studying taichi will develop the other areas.
I don’t think we can really know if Chang Sang Feng really created both Taichi and Wuji chikung, but if he did I think it is clear that Tai chi was created for combat and Wuji for cultivation.
In any case Taichi is a martial art and Wuji chikung has NO martial application or intention.
CraigFebruary 1, 2006 at 7:10 pm #10119
Well put Craig…
concider the movements of the two. tai chi qigong: pushing away, blocking, deflecting. wuji qigong: gathering, building, centering. both seem to have applications in walking life….concider what you need at the moment …. waliking in the tao … proceed…. harmoinze….
🙂February 2, 2006 at 10:01 am #10121
Tai chi: fully exersizing one’s destiny
(cultivating false yang to true yang to )
Wu chi: fully being one’s destiny
(cultivating false ying to true yin to )
Such both are internal cultivation.
In savage times tai chi is pimped for killing, healing and similar secondary effects.February 2, 2006 at 12:19 pm #10123
One of the great Tai Chi practioners was Master Dong, who studied with Yang Cheng Fu for many years, up to his death, he was his close ally and travel companion, Dong wrote a book “The Red Book” on tai chi that his great grandson translated, it talks much about tai chi chuan and the theory behind it, it is like reading a taoist text, a taoist cosmology text, a taoist theory book, it is a spiritual book. At times you would forget this is about the physical art of tai chi.
Do we think there was a Tai Chi practice that pre-dates the Chen family, if so do you think it was for internal cultivation or for self-defense? There seems to be people into channelling and atlantis here , what do these beings say?
baguaFebruary 2, 2006 at 3:21 pm #10125
-In savage times tai chi is pimped for killing, healing and similar secondary effects.
We live in savage times. Happy to be one of your pimps.
🙂February 3, 2006 at 9:38 am #10127
I am by no means an expert on the subject but I have thought upon it for some time now.
I believe there was indeed a Tai Chi practice predating the Chen family, Chang Sang Feng predates them with his Wu Ji Gong although it wasn’t called Tai Chi at that time. I think it goes even further back than this though.
I remember the first book I read on the subject by Chee Soo. He claimed his style, the Lee style went all the way back to the Sons of Reflected Light, a group of people reputed to be around 8 feet tall ( like LU DONG BIN) – maybe a poetic exaggeration by the smaller chinese. They came from somewhere maybe the Kun Lun mountains (Shamballa?) or from Tibet, about 8000 years ago! Now I know there are many false claims for such lineages and maybe Chee Soo was one of them, he was certainly much maligned.
But I have always found the idea of Tai Chi in its original form leading back along with Alchemy (perhaps being indistinguishable from it) to lost civilisations.
This original Tai Chi would have also included Ba Gua and Hsing I which some believe are fragments of it. Maybe even the shamanic five animals can be included within it along with other animal forms, Dragon, dog, wolf etc.
The story that the animals Kung fU originates with the Shaolin Temple is in my opinion no more than Buddhist propaganda along with their claim that hard style predates the soft styles. I think that the original Kung fu included both in balance. This is similar to the debate on which occured first external or internal alchemy. To me the obvious answer is that the internal preceded just as the tao/nature works from the inside out. Or maybe even the dichotomy itself is artificial and false.
Martial arts in its most profound form IS alchemy, not an abuse of it.
The life-giving sword IS homeopathy for the soul at its most profound level. Fear, Hate, Anger transmuted (not suppressed or ignored) into divine love. This is what Morihei Ueshiba re-discovered in Aikido, an aspect of Budo which in its essence has the same roots as the Chinese and Indian Martial arts. Mushin equals Wu Chi, Zanshin is the inner smile emerging as an expression of Wu WEi.
I came to Chi Kung and Tai CHi through Bujinkan Ninjutsu which I practised for about 6 years. This is in my opinion the closest Japanese form to the chinese styles ie not calcified and rigid in the way that most forms (including Aikido) in Japan have become. This I believe, is
because it remained underground and uncorrupted for many years before becoming available to the public. Ninjutsu (NinPO- a chinese suffix)is really an aspect of Budo before it became fragmented into the overt Samurai forms and covert Ninjustu forms where the stereotype of the noble Samurai and the wicked Ninja arise from.
Nin actually means endurance (spirtual and physical) which may link it with immortality. Other meanings connect it with the way of intent (HSing I?) – the heart shaped into a sword. A sword can also became a vessel.
Finally, Ninjutsu claims to have its origins in the mountains of Iga and Koga where many fleeing Chinese Monks and Generals (defeated generals meeting sages in the mountains are often the originators of martial arts in China too) had made their way. Why? Maybe because there were like minded individuals operating in the mountains outside of mainstream Japan already there. The Ninja were also associated with the Tengu, half crow, half human like beings with long noses and hairy bodies who lived in the mountains but also were said to have taught man the art of swordsmanship.
Perhaps these are references to the Ainu people a mixture of the Japanese and Caucasian peoples originally inhabiting Japan, hence the long noses and hairy bodies. These people honoured the Bear and other animals. Some historians claim that the Yayoi adopted the Samurai sword and methods from them.
Am I stabbing in the dark? Or are there connections here? I’m talking Lemuria.February 6, 2006 at 10:38 am #10129
You are welcome.
Trick happy.February 13, 2006 at 11:48 pm #10131
So many Tai Chi Styles…..So many view points…….. all are correct. I studied with a
a Dao Master in the Redwoods many years ago he called his Tai Chi: Wuji Dan Shi, also called “nine small heavens”. Practiced in a Rotating circle of Nine rounds had similar elements of Wuji Gong, Fang Song Gong, Yang Shen , Eight extraordinary wrapped in one form.
First Glance looks like another Qigong form. But he also had taught a five element application system with it which was more direct then other systems, not as complicated. When asked what is the difference he stated via translater:
Tai Chi in America is “Grand Ultimate Confusion”, everyone is hung up on the name and not the enjoyment of doing, or non-doing..
I think Tai Chi can wear many hats at any given moment; there is no one correct answer. Possibly the correct answer is your belief in your system and how we manifest it out daily in practice and life. The late T.T. Liang had said it the best :
Imagination Creates Reality….where and what is yours.
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