November 3, 2007 at 12:28 am #25574
******this is reposted from another forum, hence the intro*************************
this excerpt is from mountain tao systems in china-thailand more than kalichakric tibetan-indian, but same general root ( i think)
from: “Cosmic Healing II” , at universaltao.com from Mantak Chia:
the solar system is an energy structure with nine major awareness belts, planets are materialized form of belts
each belt has unique frequencies and qualities.. the soul remains strongly connected to the sun.. two clearly distinguished forms of soul are discussed:
1) sun related cloud soul of hun
2) moon related white soul po
po half comes into being at birth, preceding emergence of hun
soul starts incarnation process by moving through world of stars attracted by solar system where sun acts as a giant satellite station between the world of stars and planets
karmic information carried by soul determines how long it will remain in different planets’ frequencies.. these frequencies affecting our learning possibilities and distinctive character qualities
during this incarnation the soul moves from un-manifested world through the star world, external planets, internal planets, and moon earth sphere.. an electro-plasmic force of humanity around the earth functions as an awareness belt connecting the soul with life on earth
later info covers five star palaces and five cranial bones and the opening of the crystal room to star frequencies
so it’s one thing to say, another to have subjective experience, and another to externalize as objective proof and technology…
but I think the point here (for anyone who cares to read), is this:
if birds can sense the planet’s magnetic field and poles as well as each other in flight to coordinate and migrate vast distances via the metal in their pineal glands/root eye/third eyes also visible on any iguanas forehead
and the bardo thodol is thought to be systematic solar planetary magnetic fields..
then you are left with the idea of a human telepathic mental field where souls are essentially higher frequency light structures… whose dimension is attune-able to by humans in the same sense as the earths field is to aviaries..
or in other words souls are postulated as, at a minimum, interplanetary magnetic denizens who field is attuneableNovember 3, 2007 at 8:30 am #25575
… all of your description matches western interpretation. I reproduced again below Fludd’s cosmology for you.
>>the solar system is an energy structure with nine major awareness belts<>each belt has unique frequencies and qualities.. the soul remains strongly connected to the sun.<>1) sun related cloud soul of hun
2) moon related white soul po<>so it’s one thing to say, another to have subjective experience<>and another to externalize as objective proof and technology…<<
This is the thing I don't understand about you Intelligence! 🙂
First you say that it is one thing to have heard of something but different to experience it, then right away you start talking about 'magnetic fields' and 'higher frequency light structures'! Wouldn't it be a better idea to have the experience solidly first before theorizing how it can be described in physics? 🙂
From my perspective, which is certainly still limited I grant you, to go from talking about relationship of soul to sun and moon into suddenly saying that souls are "interplanetary magnetic denizens whose field is attuneable" is just bizarre! And for me just completely incorrect, COMPLETELY off track! I don't understand how you jumped to this idea from what you said before. In science you have to have a definite testable hypothesis based on real understanding. If you are working on *spiritual* science, it has to be based on real *spiritual* understanding. This isn't science, it's pure speculation!
In other words I can't see how you can just read about something one moment, then decide the next moment you understand it enough to instantly produce a physical scientific description – of something that is not even physical in any ordinary sense. Surely you would need a very deep understanding of the planetary fields (or 'spheres' as they are usually called in the west), of how the soul moves through them, of how they relate to incarnation and so forth, before you could even begin to speculate profitably on how a scientist might see them? 'Scientists' don't even have a clue the soul exists at the moment!
If you want to talk about souls you have to explain (as Fludd does, as Mantak does) their relationship to *human life* first, and primarily *your own*! This is the way I see it, that's what we're all doing here because Michael has a good handle on this.
jNovember 3, 2007 at 11:30 am #25577
… amazing how conversations start to interleave. Over on the philosophy forum Dog is talking about ‘cosmologies’ and he mentioned the days of the week. Now you are mentioning the planetary spheres… did you know the relationship between these?
The western names for days of the week are based on the planetary spheres (hence in hermetics the basic ‘7’ for number of planetary spheres as follows:
Monday = Moon (french Lundi = Luna)
Tuesday = Mars (Celtic god Tiw/French Mardi = Mars)
Wednesday = Mercury (Celtic Woden/French Mercredi = Mercury)
Thursday = Jupiter (Celtic Thor/French Jeudi = Jupiter)
Friday = Venus (Celtic Frigg/French Vendredi = Venus)
Saturday = Saturn
Sunday = Sun
… this is what I mean when I say I think this stuff is basic, it’s absolutely in the lifeblood of our culture.
When you are talking about the planetary spheres you are talking about something completely universal. The Buddhists have their own glyphs for each sphere, someone showed them to me once. Mohammed talks about the spheres, the Celts and Greeks talk about them, etc. etc. They are universally mentioned.
On the days of the week it is very interesting that they are in this particular order – not an order with an obvious pattern, yet it *does* have a pattern. I couldn’t find a diagram on the net that showed this so I was forced to draw it myself! – I hope it has come out below. Sorry it is so rough I hope you can see it.
On a septagram, a seven-pointed star, if you write the days of the week in order around the outside (one day per corner) you can then read the *spheric* order by following around the lines of the figure. That is begin with the moon, move along the line to mercury, along the line to venus, and so on. The order of spheres (you see in the previous picture I posted, the one by Fludd) goes in order of their relative density/closeness to the material:
… as you said, the *physical* planets are the extensions of these spheres into our physical universe.
Note in this spheric order the interesting thing, that it correlates exactly to the *speed of movement* of each body – moon moves the fastest, saturn the slowest in this list.
So the days of the week record this information about the solar system… I would love to know how you count nine as opposed to seven! Is there an asteriod belt somewhere? 🙂 Or it could depend on how one sees Saturn and the planets past that. Of course earth itself counts as well… this is the same thing Intelligence as what I was telling you before about the bodies (which is a COMPLETELY) related subject, namely that the lore is very widespread but in the actual counting people count differently sometimes.
jNovember 3, 2007 at 11:31 am #25579November 3, 2007 at 11:35 am #25581
…. you can easily draw that septagram yourself though. Draw a 7-pointed star, and write the days of the week in order around the outside of it, one for each point. Then starting at the moon, move along the lines of the star to find the spheric order. You’ll see what I mean… I think… jNovember 3, 2007 at 3:19 pm #25583
this all started over a decade ago with conversations of the electric basis of a soul..
(personally that is..)
perhaps forums are just too prone to this kind of thing
also, there is a serious question of which planetary system says what..
no its no rapid leap, i just happened to have a copy of mantak’s e-book which says it plainly and clearly..
the question is proof… this is very simple
in the 1800’s if someone came to you with a foot injury and an infection and you told them a strange mold or extract would fix it and they had no understanding of it, then you could just go pray..
well people still do that..
if you go to someone who has no experience and perhaps never will and want to offer medical or perhaps evolutionary advice, you need something to prove it’s validity to them..
Western Medicine plus Eastern Mysticism might lead to genuine Psychic Science..
but i am really tired of saying that, it should be a given..
this is a pretty simple theory.. that the soul is connected to the heart and thymus via a electric field system and that the solar system interacts with it via the magnetic fields of planets..
the problem is that some of these planets have no known magnetic fields.. so what is this plasmic vapor etc.. well that should be testable..
and people are out there doing it..
this forum SHOULD be a place to discuss Squids and interop with the academic community..
there are schools in hong kong and japan working on it.. although i don’t have time to look through everythingNovember 3, 2007 at 4:32 pm #25585
… 1st of all, *what* suppositions and assumptions are you talking about in what I said?
2nd of all, you say:
>>no its no rapid leap, i just happened to have a copy of mantak’s e-book which says it plainly and clearly..<>the question is proof… this is very simple<>in the 1800’s if someone came to you with a foot injury and an infection and you told them a strange mold or extract would fix it and they had no understanding of it, then you could just go pray..
well people still do that..<>if you go to someone who has no experience and perhaps never will and want to offer medical or perhaps evolutionary advice, you need something to prove it’s validity to them..<>this is a pretty simple theory.. that the soul is connected to the heart and thymus via a electric field system and that the solar system interacts with it via the magnetic fields of planets..<>this forum SHOULD be a place to discuss Squids and interop with the academic community..<>there are schools in hong kong and japan working on it.. although i don’t have time to look through everything<<
Show me the links, I will look through it – some of it at least! What exactly are they working on?
In the meantime, please tell me, what are the 'too many suppositions/assumptions' that I'm making?
jNovember 3, 2007 at 6:05 pm #25587
Before even doing that I would first have proved its validity to *myself* of course, which means, if it involves the planetary spheres, I need to have experienced the planetary spheres – thoroughly! At length! This is what I’m saying. Then if I am going to say, here, this relates to physics in this way, I have a shot in hell of saying what the relationship is. But first I must know what those spheres are before I can do anything like that, this is what I’m saying.
One could know all the data about the *physical* planets that there is to know, but still not understand anything about the planetary *spheres*.
>>this is a pretty simple theory.. that the soul is connected to the heart and thymus via a electric field system and that the solar system interacts with it via the magnetic fields of planets..<<
answers in a nutshell:
if it takes you seven formulas to start questioning external/non-subjective proof of the first six, then there is probably something wrong with your discretion
the assumption is that somehow there is "no experience of the soul" or perhaps "the afterlife"
like it all came down to a mantak book.. he is one person with one pamphlet.. the planetary thing is obviously old to occultists
so what IS THE POINT? well, read between the lines
if its real it's real… lets start quantitatively measuring fields and effects for the first six formulas if we can't tackle seven yet…
in other words:
if you have a clear hypotheses, and your only means of testing at the moment is subjective (the air feels warm, the sky looks clear)
then start objectively measuring it…
my point is that the Bardo Thodol has a clear premise, there is a subjective path followed by many with testable results,
apply objective tests to subjective results and see what happens
the air is not truly clear.. it is filled with molds spores bacteria and atomic nuclei packed with infinitudes of energy
this is a heavy theory, that the soul is magnetic electric and related to the electric systems of the body..
heavier still that this field is thought to be in conjuntion with planetary magnetic drafts
I never said STOP doing practice or give up subjective experience, i just said question it and seek the external proof to convey it to those who have no subjective experience..
this is most valuable for medicine, but equally so for remedying a worldwide religous crisis
if you mix in entheogens and three d receptor arrays as related to cauldrons and spiritual science, which WAS THE AIM OF DEAR DR TIM< ROB WILSON< AND JOHN LILLY
then you have a whole new spectrum of the real and true and the empirically testableNovember 3, 2007 at 7:19 pm #25589
… even though you did *not* answer me!
So first of all, my questions to you again:
1. What assumptions am I making, be specific?
2. Are you saying that Mantak’s book on cosmic healing says that the soul is a magnetic phenomenon? Are you saying that you are understanding the nature of the planetary spheres just from reading about them?
3. WHAT are the schools in Hong Kong and Japan working on? They are studying the nature of the soul? Or bioenergy? To do with planets? Magnetism? What? Clue us in here!
… there were probably more, but forget them! Whatever.
Dude I never said don’t measure with objective instruments! What I said is, understand first properly what it is you are trying to measure. I am just saying it how I see it here.
For me to tell you I have soul is like me telling you I have a little finger.
No I can’t tell you the exact chemical composition of my little finger.
No I can’t tell you the exact combinations of genes that are building it.
But yes I can tell you it’s there. It’s not a subjective hypothesis, I definitely have got one! And what’s more you have too.
If someone has interesting theories about my little finger, and they want to measure it with instruments, great. But if they can’t actually *see* my little finger – I feel calling them ‘experts’ is a little silly.
Your ‘a few old occultists’ and ‘pamphlets’ aside, don’t you realize that your beloved Christ is recorded in the *gnostic* gospels as having talked at length on the planetary spheres? Can’t you imagine my confusion when you subscribed to the ‘Jefferson approach’ to the bible? Don’t you see that the very ‘essences and emanations’ which Jefferson recommended be completely forgotten by all sensible Christians were precisely to do with these planetary spheres you are now so interested in?
Suppose you heard of a very rare animal whose existence would have enormous implications for science… but which is found only on a small island far from where you live.
If you want to study it, don’t you have to travel to the island and actually see the animal?
Sure the locals there are naive and foolish and they don’t have a clue about the animal’s genetics, its taxonomy, etc. Sure they are not provided with liquid nitrogen and superconductors. But when they get up in the morning and open the curtains, there is the animal looking at them!
The locals are not hypothesizing about the existence of the animal, they are not guessing, they are not giving subjective ignorant conjectures, they are staring the animal in the face. Every DAY OF THE WEEK. There’s nothing subjective about it. It’s just that not everyone is in a place where they can see it. So then who should run magnetic measurements on it, someone who can’t see it or someone who can see it?
I don’t see how you can ‘apply objective tests to subjective results’ if you have *got* no subjective results, only descriptions of *other people’s* subjective results. You need to be able to observe what you are measuring don’t you? You need to make an actual testable hypothesis and you can’t even see what you are hypothesizing about?
Having said that… by all means run some tests, *if* you can get a hypothesis!Meanwhile if you could possibly answer my questions – what are my assumptions, did Mantak say the soul is magnetic, what are the Hong Kong and Japanese schools investigating EXACTLY?
Plus what does this mean? –
>>if it takes you seven formulas to start questioning external/non-subjective proof of the first six, then there is probably something wrong with your discretion <<
… just think, he's stupid, I'll humour him and explain slowly. OK? I want to know your answers, please don't skip over the questions! Thanks! I would like to know what are the testable hypotheses of the Leary/Wilson/Lilly triumvirate as well, if you can bear to slow down enough to explain.
jNovember 3, 2007 at 10:01 pm #25591November 3, 2007 at 11:02 pm #25593November 4, 2007 at 6:09 am #25595
… just answer the questions, assume I’m dumb and although you answered already for some reason there is something wrong with me so you need to talk slowly.
What assumptions am I making?
Are you saying that Mantak’s book on cosmic healing says that the soul is a magnetic phenomenon?
Are you saying that you are understanding the nature of the planetary spheres just from reading about them?
WHAT are the schools in Hong Kong and Japan working on?
And also: are you saying ‘the soul is an interplanetary magnetic denizen’ is your testable scientific hypothesis?
I genuinely would like to understand the answers, why don’t you just explain them? I thought you wanted to talk about these things! jNovember 4, 2007 at 9:51 am #25597
I mean, just for a moment, entertain the notion
suppose someone has a general theory of plasma dynamics and decides that they will test the cosmic aether to find out if it is really a mental effluvium..
perhaps half of the crew has an experience of local plasma within the cns
and the other half are stark raving ready to go launching themselves into said aether on an effluvium trip..via some weird yoga
well the more conservative and pragmatic half decide they are going to see if said medium is there to begin with..
they’ll probe it, measure it see what they can figure out..
well maybe both approaches work…
this is common sense..
you created the limits on this argument by supposing that all of “my” experience came from one line in a pamphletNovember 4, 2007 at 10:09 am #25599November 4, 2007 at 10:36 am #25601
… I’m just asking you some questions.
I did *not* say that you had no experience, one of my *questions* was, are you thinking you understand the planetary spheres from reading alone? To which you are perfectly free to answer, no I’m not! Or yes I am, but there’s more to it! Or I’m not sure!
I don’t assume the answer, I ask the question to *see* what the answer is.
My other questions are similar. It’s a straight question: did Mantak say that they nature of the soul was magnetic? I don’t know the answer dude, I’m asking you because you’ve read the book and I haven’t.
Straight question: what is the research you talked about in Japan and Hong Kong? I’m just asking out of interest, don’t you want the things you say to arouse interest? Having mentioned it can’t you point me at least to some reading material or something like that?
Straight question: I’ve now had three versions of the what the theory is that needs testing. The first was that the soul was an interplanetary denizen. The second was that the soul connects to the thymus gland. The third which you give above does not mention the soul but talks about the cosmic aether and concerns whether it is a mental effluvium.
What I’m asking you is, what *is* the actual theory that you think needs testing, by these more sensible people who choose not to go on a mad expedition with no evidence? I think it’s perfectly allowable question! You are telling me that the work you are talking about could have amazing implications for all mankind both medically and spiritually, and that what is needed is definite testing with equipment that could be able to confirm the theory in a precise manner with no room for doubt or error.
But what precisely *is* the theory that you want to test? Isn’t it perfectly natural to ask that? I’m not clear yet what kind of test you want to run, but how can I get clear if you don’t tell me precisely what you want to test *for*? Surely one needs more detail than a one-line summary. Imagine I’m a stupid but wealthy man who could fund the research you want done, and give it to me straight: what is the theory and how are you going to get confirmation of it?
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.