March 17, 2006 at 7:33 pm #11619
Hy to all,
I’ve just buy the book of Mantak about Tan Tien chi kung in pdf format.
With a rapid look It seems that most of the earlier work from iron shirt is there, with some recent new dress.
Is my approx view or some may say is different?
I mean it is the same thing about holding the breath that caused a lot of trouble in the past or is a safe techinque to do?
anyone has tried for some time?
any other suggestion, or whatever?
Thanks for the attention.
SilvanoMarch 18, 2006 at 8:28 pm #11620
I didn’t see anything worth while in that book.
TrunkMarch 18, 2006 at 11:55 pm #11622
I picked that book up and I found the animal postures to be quite useful in strengthening all directions of the dantian. It is quite useful for taiji because it can make movement from the dantian more efficient. I sometimes practice the animal postures as a good warm-up for taiji. I would say that it is better for martial arts than inner alchemy.
FajinMarch 20, 2006 at 6:56 pm #11624
I have a similar opinion.
I thought that in these years something could be changed, but it’s always the same stuff twisted from one work to another.
But something interesting i’ve found in torquing the legs to open the kua that reminded me to setting the stance in wing tjun training, very interesting.
for the rest I’ll try to study it a bit and practice.
Pressure in the TT is a thing that i’ve neglected since ever, as also packing,holding the breath and so on.
Thank you for the answer.
SilvanoMarch 20, 2006 at 10:52 pm #11626
Hello Coach Silvano,
Qi pressure refers to how much qi is accumulated in the dantian. It is like a tire inflated with air, the more air the stronger the air pressure in the tire. The “Tan Tien Chi Kung” animal postures are good movements for increasing the qi pressure in all parts of the dantian, front, back, sides, etc.
So, I would say that they are good for taiji practice but not really a very big help to inner alchemy because there are more efficient ways of condensing qi in your dantian in ine point rather than all sides/directions, which is more useful for martial arts.
FajinMarch 21, 2006 at 6:40 am #11628
Hi fajin, thank for your viewpoint,
is also what i think, by the way.
I also think that TT is far more beyond Energy to alchemical process and Pressure for Martial art purposes.could be little more in that magical spot.
ciaoMarch 24, 2006 at 9:50 pm #11630
(Note: the vehemence in the following post is not directed at you, Fajin. Its my take on the book.)
f> Qi pressure refers to how much qi is accumulated in the dantian. It is like a tire inflated with air, the more air the stronger the air pressure in the tire. >
“Iron Shirt”, “qi pressure”, “tire inflated with air” … Those are the worst metaphors. The ideas of increasing hardness and pressure are antithetical to correct qi gong practice, especially in the beginning. Those sorts of ideals, applied in practice by beginners, lead to injury. Its just spreading confusion and destruction. Butchering what is actually a profound subject and potentially healing practice.
Especially in the beginning, it is the working out of tension, in balance .. promoting smooth lower tan tien breathing, that leads to being well blended .. that leads to health. A Metaphor that I’ve seen that addresses this is “silk breathing” (meaning that there are no rough spots in the full inhale through full exhale, smooth all the way).
Only as things become very smooth, all the way through, do things stabalize so that substances accumulate and restore. Softness, smoothness, is the foundation that produces profound health that much later manifests so robustly as to be a true “iron shirt”. But to say “iron shirt” and “pressure” to beginners puts them on the totally wrong path of practice!
Then there’s the deeper material of how a tan tien functions for spiritual development, which Chia’s book doesn’t even touch upon.
There is actual profound, sacred, value to humanity to be communicated about these subjects. Putting out such shallow, poor material is counter-productive.March 24, 2006 at 10:11 pm #11632
I’ll probably write an essay and post it at my site at some point, and say these things in a more thorough, clear, and polite manner. .. with my mis-emotion refined out, cleaner intent.March 25, 2006 at 4:32 am #11634
Beginners need to first open the orbit before they begin working on building the qi in the dantian. I think that Mantak was assuming that the practitioner already has gotten through the blockages in his orbit before he even THINKS of accumulating qi.
I remember when I was a beginner a long time ago, when I first began to accumulate qi in my dantian, it soon after went to fill my intestines and it felt very warm, breaking through all the blockages in the abdominal area. After than it went back to normal and I had much smoother flow in the dantian area. One must first practice some kind of abdominal breathing and open the orbit, than he/she can begin accumulating is what I think.
The qi pressure metaphor is not a bad analogy. Let me exaplain my theory on the dantian. The dantian is the small intestines. They have neurons like the head brain allowing them to think, so does the heart.
This means that the 3 dantians are 3 brains as well, the head brain, heart brain, and gut brain as Mantak likes to call them. When you use abdominal breathing to help increase the qi in the dantian, ie. intestines, by inflating it with air like a balloon, or tire, you accumulate more qi in the dantian.
I believe that science says the intestines can be stretched so much that they can practically stretch the entire globe! This would mean that the intestines are capable of holding an incredibly vast amount of qi, making it seem quite infinite.
As I have once told you that I practiced lung-gom-pa, I filled my intestines by taking huge breaths of air and leaping cross-legged with the breath held. It’s like plavini pranayama, where you can float on water because you become like a balloon.
Of course, I do agree with you that in the higher spiritual levels, the dantian becomes as what you would say a portal to another dimension. But, still at this level, prior to inner alchemy, I mean qigong-wise, the qi pressure metaphor is good.
FajinMarch 25, 2006 at 7:20 am #11636
f> assuming that the practitioner already has gotten through the blockages in his orbit before he even THINKS of accumulating qi >
That’s quite an assumption.
f> As I have once told you that I practiced lung-gom-pa, I filled my intestines by taking huge breaths of air and leaping cross-legged with the breath held. It’s like plavini pranayama, where you can float on water because you become like a balloon. >
You have an interesting background, and your prior training has probably served you well.
Books need to be written in such a way as to be safe for a wide variety of people; its only responsible. Presenting “iron shirt” and “tire pressure” as introductory metaphors .. into a culture where most people are trained in weight lifting, not qi gong, is simply reckless. And undoubtedly promotes injury for too many people. If this was his first book… but he’s had 25 years since IS1 was written (and, by all accounts – including those within the HT organization, produced way too many injuries).March 25, 2006 at 8:02 am #11638March 25, 2006 at 8:47 am #11640
couple of years of stupidity
then when one learns the grace of moving, gentleness and awareness…
1 year: for healing the ankles
1 year: for healing the knees
1 year: for healing the hips
THEN THE STEEL CAN BE YIELDED.March 25, 2006 at 3:34 pm #11642
You are right. In a culture like this with people wjo stubbornly want to try things ahead without knowing what they are doing, they get themselves injured. I don’t think the book was bad in presenting the theory and application, but another book after people injured themselves in Iron shirt I was a mistake on Chia’s part.
FajinMarch 25, 2006 at 3:36 pm #11644
Takes too long. I would say so for the average westerner, but not someone like me who goes at it for the whole day sometimes. From morning to night.
FajinMarch 25, 2006 at 3:43 pm #11646
Thank you for the open conversation.
(And thanks to Michael & James for providing this space where we can all openly share views.)
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