November 25, 2004 at 1:08 pm #2099
Any body else forced to listen to these people?Some of my family is born again and man do they try and scare you.Anybody ever had an argument with one of these guys and won?Everything I said was taken and twisted and of course came back to non beleivers go to hell.Any suggestions on how to win the argument casue I am tired of hearing how everyone else except born agains are going to hell.:-)November 25, 2004 at 8:52 pm #2100
if they beleive in the devil they are goin to hell if they beleive in the truth and the light they wont, easyNovember 25, 2004 at 9:04 pm #2102
Simple as that. Stand up for what you believe in.
Keep what is sacred to you and dont let other people even
begin to glimpse your purity.
Most are just Hungry Ghost looking for a Feeding on your
Dont give them nothing to feed.
Just an Empty Shell.
hahahahNovember 26, 2004 at 12:37 am #2104
Hit them with Matthew 7, verses 1-5. That ought to shut them up.
If that doesn’t work read for yourself Matthew 7, verse 6.
spyrelxNovember 26, 2004 at 8:36 am #2106
I don’t think it’s possible to win that argument. In my opinion born again christians are some of the most fearprone people around and that fear will stop any reason from entering. It’s not arguments against arguments – it’s about trying to reason with fear – and that’s a never win situation.
You would imagine that if you could find something in the bible that would make their case at least questionable they would listen, but that’s at least not my experience. It’s hard to reason with someone who believe theirs is the only path. An honest mind is an open mind.
Also it’s usually not about what Jesus said, what the bible says etc., but rather what christian dogma says. Have you ever wanted to know Jesus’ opinion on hell? Let me know if you find it in the bible. If you find that perhaps you could also look up his opinion on internal work?
The daoist way is cultivation through various means and something you work for. No one can account for where or with what Jesus spent his missing 30 years. Perhaps doing some kind of inner work?
I have the deepest respect for the teachings of Jesus, but the conflict with the daoist way is not understandable to me.
// Peace.November 26, 2004 at 9:33 am #2108
breach of personal boundaries
you can’t win. but you can control them.
you can control emotions by study of controlling cycle and yang organs.
Yang organs protect ying organs.
Water, metal and earth are usually portrayed as yin emotions of fear, depression, worry. They do have yang components also:
worry………acid in stomach is for a lot of fire of solar plexus
fear……….adrenalin fire is obvious
anger and impatience do not have problem with establishing personal space.
or neutralize their effect by keeping centre and doing your stuff
or dissolve the tension by addressing the inner heart. but you can’t control such process so without skill it can be time consuming.
without your center, your emotion: you are just feeding the emotion projected on your center. thus the feeling of tiredness and separation from sourceNovember 26, 2004 at 10:36 am #2110
I think that its natural for strong enthusiasm to arise as a person hooks into a path that resonates for them; there’s a deep deep triggering of will, heart, mind and Spirit. And its natural to want to share that, and – if you feel its the ‘right’ way – to want to include others. Basic human nature. (Ain’t just Christians.)
Of course, enthusiastically sharing spiritual stuff is frought with problems. Its an intensely personal area, so there’s lots of border-jumping going on. Hardly anyone agrees with eachother. And all that strong enthusiasm – if channeled in a divisive way – is genuinely harmful.
Christians are especially notorious in this regard, and they’ve got a strong social support structure amongst themselves, at least here in the U.S. (I mean, there are 3 Christian churches that I can thing of right now that are within blocks from me as I sit here. Buddhist and Daoist?: None.)
Usually, there’s no “winning” this situation; the best that you can hope for is an agreed upon truce (and expect that to get tested from time to time). Agreeing to stay off the topic, or spending less time around ’em.
Hopefully, they’ll mature and mellow out over time. This happens with some, not with others. Generally takes some years.November 26, 2004 at 3:59 pm #2112
I have dealt with Jehovah’s Witnesses and the like on several occasions. You know, coming to the door…”Have you ever considered what might happen after you die?”
What I do is listen politely.
I listen to them as if they are really trying to communicate something that I might find correct, or not, without any spirit of sarcasm (which is not what they are used to). And then I state my view calmly and concisely, like I’m having a straightforward conversation with a friend or acquaintance, ‘as if’ what I have to say is also worth listening to politely… I treat them like the thinking human beings they are, underneath. If they take too long pushing too hard to sell their world view, after I have dealt with them in the way I just mentioned, I firmly tell them they’ve heard my view–thank you, goodbye. But without insult–to show them that they need to attend to basic human qualities like respect and decorum, especially if they are trying to be savers of souls. They have conviction… Well, I have conviction too; I have studied and practiced, etc., so I just behave like someone who actually has his two cents and thinks it’s worth as much as Jehovah’s two cents, but without pissing on Jehovah’s shoes. Why should Jehovah respect me if I don’t respect him? How about that for a basic value–but you have to really do it, not sarcastically and/or patronizingly. Treating them like shit will just confirm their worldview.
The idea is, if you treat them with respect, they will have a hard time not treating you with respect and at the same time continue to consider themselves as holier than thou, as being on the high moral ground.
I don’t even blink an eye when the hell card or the like is played; if you let your feathers get ruffled by such nonsense that plays into the game, like the way itching something makes it worse.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.