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Creation and Dualism (article)

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Home › Forum Online Discussion › Philosophy › Creation and Dualism (article)

  • This topic has 60 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 2 months ago by bagua.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 61 total)
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  • Author
    Posts
  • March 12, 2010 at 12:20 am #33482
    Steven
    Moderator

    Hello All,

    As part of my ongoing spiritual exploration, I am subscribed to many
    magazines/newsletters/etc. with the theme of spirituality. Even though
    I align most strongly with the Daoist model, I like to get other
    points of view also–say from Buddhism or Hinduism–to compare and contrast.
    Sometimes they have useful things to say or useful ideas even if the
    dogma doesn’t resonate.

    At any rate, here is a newsletter email I received recently from a
    spiritual magazine I subscribe to that’s got a Hindu slant . . .

    I decided to post it this month, because this particular article
    had a very Daoist feel to it, and I quite liked it.

    At any rate, here it is . . . S

    —————————————–

    Unlocking the Mystery of Creation
    Satsang of Swami Amar Jyoti

    Not only did God create the world, He made the world out of Him. And if He created out of Him, it must be He. Let’s put our concentration on this. If God made the world out of Himself, what will it be? God again. A pot made out of clay is clay. The universe made out of God is God. What makes it different from God? Dualism. A clay pot has been given form. Once it has form, we give it a name. This is dualism: form and name. The form is a conception and the conception is a name called pot. Break the pot; it is gone. This is called birth and death: birth of a pot, death of a pot. In both conditions the clay remains the same. In creation God remains the same throughout.
    Replace this concept with Consciousness, Light, Awareness, whatever you wish to call it. Throughout it is so. The emanation of God must be God, whether the form changes or not. This is the phenomenon of birth and death. In all the three conditions – deep sleep, the dream state and waking – you remain. It is your dream, your physical world, you in deep sleep. Throughout you are you. Only conceptions change, forms change, names change. We call this birth and death. The entire creation, preservation and transformation incessantly carry on through you, by you, in you. All is within the drama – young age, old age, death and birth.
    What we call creation is changing phenomena. That is why Realized Souls say to be detached from form and name and be devoted to the essence. Do not look to the pot, look to the clay. If you identify yourself with the form and name, you will have to lament. Identify yourself with the Reality, you will not lament. Unless we are awakened to non-duality, to the Absolute, we cannot really know what dualism is. We are in the dream – action and reaction, cause and effect, form and name – and we philosophize so much that we take it to be real. That which gives us pain, makes us miserable, frustrated and wanting is dualism.
    Our folly is not awakening. We want to “sleep,” but sleep can be comfortable only up to some limits. Beyond that it becomes pain and drudgery, and that is the very drudgery we carry through life. When we awaken, we come back to our Absolute Truth: I am all this. How do we realize this? We must awaken from our dreams. Awakening is the answer.

    ยฉ 2010 by Truth Consciousness. Excerpted from the Satsang, Unlocking the Mysteries of Creation, published in Light of Consciousness Vol 11#2, from the original recorded Satsang,
    The Dream and the Dreamer (R-5)available on CD.

    http://www.truthconsciousness.org

    March 12, 2010 at 10:42 am #33483
    Dog
    Participant

    I enjoy doing the same. It is like walking through a garden smelling all different beautiful flowers.

    I really enjoyed this.

    March 12, 2010 at 2:16 pm #33485
    Steven
    Moderator

    I quite enjoyed that video also.
    I can tell Almine has a heightened awareness of the truth.

    Her stages she speaks of sound very similar to the progression
    through the Healing Tao immortality formulas. I was pleasantly
    surprised to hear her talk about alchemy . . . and amused
    to hear her alchemy/Michael comment. I wonder if Michael
    realizes that his name is even linked into alchemy, LOL.
    I guess he chose the right job ๐Ÿ™‚

    I like her comment about her “awakening in stage 2”, where
    she says you don’t depend on others’ opinions of you. I
    myself have come to this realization recently. It’s so
    obvious, but so easy to miss and/or not absorb fully.

    Thanks for sharing the video. It was excellent.

    S

    March 13, 2010 at 10:07 am #33487
    c_howdy
    Participant
    March 13, 2010 at 10:22 am #33489
    c_howdy
    Participant

    March 14, 2010 at 7:21 pm #33491
    atxryan
    Participant
    March 15, 2010 at 2:32 am #33493
    c_howdy
    Participant

    http://www.skhquest.com

    March 15, 2010 at 12:03 pm #33495
    Dog
    Participant

    The pearl is embodiment. To embody the Yuan shen Chi Jing. Just do your Healing Tao Practices daily, relax and enjoy your day. Just do what you can, maybe just going for a walk in nature might just be the best thing that day. Try out all the practices, enjoy your self, they all have amazing lessons. Eventually the pearl will become more “real”. ๐Ÿ™‚ Go to a workshop for more details on this subject. Fusion workshop is in Asheville north Carolina in two weeks and I have a workshop on the Seven Star Step in April. http://www.triangeletao.com

    March 15, 2010 at 1:45 pm #33497
    Steven
    Moderator

    YOU are the pearl. It’s just your consciousness crystallized
    so that it’s easier to identify and work with, as opposed to working
    on it in the abstract. You can’t “not” hang on to it. It’s
    YOU after all. The two are inseparable. Cultivating the
    pearl is cultivating YOU. The point of strengthening, cultivating,
    and refining the pearl so that it can continue to live on
    consciously after death, is to strengthen, cultivate and
    refine YOU so that YOU can continue to live on consciously
    after death.

    In the strictest Daoist sense, I’m oversimplifying things a bit,
    but that’s my style ^_^

    If we want to get fancy with language, YOU are the amalgam
    of the LING (prenatal soul which exists beyond death normally)
    and the XIN (heart-mind; postnatal expression formed by the unified
    five shen, which does NOT exist beyond death normally). Then
    the pearl is a crystallization of your XIN via an energetic
    vessel holding the FIVE SHEN. If this vessel is cultivated so
    that it exists beyond death, then together with the already
    immortal LING, YOU then continue to exist beyond death; otherwise,
    only the LING continues on–which by itself is just a skeletal
    version of you, emotionless with no goals, akin to a “Stepford wives”
    version of you.

    But ignoring all the fancy-schmancy talk using formal lingo which
    I usually avoid, to KEEP THINGS SIMPLE, in a nutshell, basically
    YOU are the pearl.

    Sing it with me now ๐Ÿ˜‰

    (sung to “We are the World”)

    You are the pearl.
    You are the children.
    You are the one who makes a brighter day
    So now start living
    There’s a choice you’re making
    You’re saving your own life
    It’s true you’ll make a better day
    Just you and you

    Smiles,
    Steven

    March 15, 2010 at 1:56 pm #33499
    Steven
    Moderator

    Never heard of him before now,
    but if you like martial arts, check out this video:

    March 16, 2010 at 2:57 am #33501
    c_howdy
    Participant

    Acrobatics work or not work.

    It’s not tied to any tradition but to physics and will power of human body.

    I have participated a capoiera course, but I decided not to continiue.

    Good to remember is last Jason Bourne movie. Matt Damon by the way has some finnish ancestry.

    http://www.bluelotusassembly.org

    March 16, 2010 at 11:42 am #33503
    Dog
    Participant

    I met two To-Shin-Do (different then bujikan/ninjitsu) instructors. I was not impressed with their energy. One was the blue lotus Buddhist meditation teacher. I found out that one ended up going crazy and shooting his pregnant wife. Stephen seems like a really nice guy and I enjoy spending time with Bud Malmstrom.

    March 16, 2010 at 1:21 pm #33505
    bagua
    Participant

    Hi Steven:

    Nice reply.

    Can you share your source for the meaning of Ling? Another one is almost the opposite, Shen is our essential nature/yuan shen, Ling is a more dense energy formation in our current form to hold the shen, the vessel to allow the Shen to stay here, the two are inseparable in human form. It is the yin/yang aspect of Shen.

    A question.

    Are we born with a pearl?

    If yes is there something about the pearl that can come into this life but not maintain itself in the next?

    thanks,
    bagua

    YOU are the pearl. It’s just your consciousness crystallized
    so that it’s easier to identify and work with, as opposed to working
    on it in the abstract. You can’t “not” hang on to it. It’s
    YOU after all. The two are inseparable. Cultivating the
    pearl is cultivating YOU. The point of strengthening, cultivating,
    and refining the pearl so that it can continue to live on
    consciously after death, is to strengthen, cultivate and
    refine YOU so that YOU can continue to live on consciously
    after death.

    In the strictest Daoist sense, I’m oversimplifying things a bit,
    but that’s my style ^_^

    If we want to get fancy with language, YOU are the amalgam
    of the LING (prenatal soul which exists beyond death normally)
    and the XIN (heart-mind; postnatal expression formed by the unified
    five shen, which does NOT exist beyond death normally). Then
    the pearl is a crystallization of your XIN via an energetic
    vessel holding the FIVE SHEN. If this vessel is cultivated so
    that it exists beyond death, then together with the already
    immortal LING, YOU then continue to exist beyond death; otherwise,
    only the LING continues on–which by itself is just a skeletal
    version of you, emotionless with no goals, akin to a “Stepford wives”
    version of you.

    But ignoring all the fancy-schmancy talk using formal lingo which
    I usually avoid, to KEEP THINGS SIMPLE, in a nutshell, basically
    YOU are the pearl.

    Sing it with me now ๐Ÿ˜‰

    (sung to “We are the World”)

    You are the pearl.
    You are the children.
    You are the one who makes a brighter day
    So now start living
    There’s a choice you’re making
    You’re saving your own life
    It’s true you’ll make a better day
    Just you and you

    Smiles,

    March 16, 2010 at 2:17 pm #33507
    Steven
    Moderator

    I find it to be mostly about the practices, and not so
    much about the people involved or the “dharma” of tradition.

    I remember hearing about how Eric Yudelove–one of M. Chia’s
    senior students–ended up doing some pretty crazy things also,
    and yet that shouldn’t be proof that the Alchemical Daoism
    of One Cloud is faulty. It’s just proof that people are
    faulty, which we already knew.

    As to the “dharma”, again if the path to awakening is an
    individual one and one which comes from direct experience
    to all that is, then any commentary/beliefs promoted by
    the tradition are just that: beliefs. Things other
    travelers in the tradition thought to have had revealed
    to them. As such, I don’t pay it too much mind.

    Example: In ADDITION to the Healing Tao practices, I
    also do Zen meditation and occasionally go to a local
    Zen temple. I think that the practice of Zen meditation
    as well as some of the other practices of Zen are useful
    tools to help with self-awakening. However, for the
    most part, a lot of the dharma talks and discussions arising
    from the Buddhist scriptures I couldn’t disagree with more.
    They disagree with a lot of what I feel to be true from
    the Daoist tradition (whose “dharma” aligns most closely
    with what I think is the right perspective). However,
    even though I disagree with 80% of the Buddhist dharma teachings,
    does not mean I don’t think that the PRACTICES THEMSELVES
    are not worth doing. Practices, taken out of the context
    of a particular set of teachings, can be applied toward
    whatever goal best suits you . . . which I suppose is
    probably why I give value to the Zen tradition, because
    it tends to downplay the Buddhist teachings in favor
    of just doing the practices–In fact, the “fifth finger
    of Zen” is called “no reading; direct experience” . . .
    which means don’t let someone tell you what you should
    believe, but go and experience it and see for yourself.

    S

    March 16, 2010 at 3:27 pm #33509
    Steven
    Moderator

    >>>Can you share your source for the meaning of Ling?
    >>>Another one is almost the opposite, Shen is our
    >>>essential nature/yuan shen, Ling is a more dense
    >>>energy formation in our current form to hold the shen,
    >>>the vessel to allow the Shen to stay here, the two are
    >>>inseparable in human form. It is the yin/yang aspect of Shen.

    Let me clarify what I said earlier.

    Prior to birth, the LING exists in the prenatal realm, and
    is an immortal object. It is a skeletal version of you; it
    has some degree of self-awareness, but no emotions, no goals,
    no desires, no memory. Then due to some unknown linking
    or association process, the LING links up with the
    creation of a new physical human being. As the physical
    human “comes online”, as if a radio has been turned on, the
    LING puts out an “interdimensional whistle”, and summons
    the FIVE SHEN (also immortal) to come to join it. Almost as if an employer
    has put out a job posting, and prospective employees show up . . .
    The FIVE SHEN are attracted to this interdimensional whistle,
    and whichever five shen of the various shen in the nether
    regions that show up, get “hired”. They then form the
    “soul team” and collect around the LING, with the LING
    acting as axis around which they collect. Upon the birth
    of the human, the LING grants the “authority” to the FIVE SHEN
    to “run the show”. Collectively, the “five member team”
    are responsible for the emotions, goals, drives, desires, memories etc.
    for the human. The collective “five member committee” forms
    a voice called the XIN (heart-mind). Then the LING + the XIN
    form everything that is you. Assuming nothing special is
    done during life (i.e Daoist cultivation or the like), then
    upon death, the “radio is turned off”, i.e. “the interdimensional
    whistle stops whistling”, and thus the “magnet” that attracted
    the shen originally is no more. Thus the FIVE SHEN scatter,
    as their “job” is over. They are immortal, but they separate
    to go off and do other things. In doing so, the XIN which was
    the assemblage of the five-member committee is no more. It
    dissolves. Thus what is left is the LING alone. Thus your
    memories, emotions, goals, drives, etc. all evaporate and
    much of what you were is cast into oblivion, only leaving
    a shell. Under this picture, the point of doing the Daoist
    cultivation is to strengthen the energetic vessel in which
    the FIVE SHEN collect around the LING axis, so that after
    death when the “whistle” is turned off, the FIVE SHEN are
    “caged” and are prevented from going off their separate ways,
    and thus keeping everything that is you intact in the hereafter.
    Of course, this phrasing of the word “caging” is misleading as
    it implies a forced prison, when what is really happening is
    that the cage is created/strengthened by getting the FIVE
    SHEN to realize how compatible they are with each other and
    helping them to realize that they WANT to continue to work
    together forever. This “wanting” creates a mutual desire
    or longing for them to be together, which means a kind
    of “magnetic” or “sexual” attraction amongst them develops which is
    independent of the “interdimensional whistle of the LING”
    (holding them “hypnotized” around the LING’s axis). It is
    this “wanting” or “magnetic” or “sexual” attraction that develops that
    is really the source of the energetic field creating the
    vessel; so yes they are caged, but they are caging themselves
    by “choice” of falling in love with each other. Thus–if
    the cultivation during life is done to “a sufficient degree”–
    then when the “interdimensional whistle of the LING” is
    silenced by death, then the “magnetic attraction” of the
    FIVE SHEN as manifested by the vessel is sufficient to
    keep the FIVE SHEN together as a unit still operating around
    the LING axis.

    So getting back to your comment . . .

    I don’t think this concept of LING is too far opposite
    from the other interpretation you mention as it is “holding
    the shen” and “allowing it to be here” (I realize I’m using
    the word shen differently here than your intention of
    shen as essential nature).

    As to “my source” for the meaning of LING I’ve given.
    I reference the teachings of Michael Winn from his course work,
    which I give credit to from his 30 years experience in
    Alchemical Daoism–trusting that the information relayed
    in his courses is accurate–although to be honest I have
    not gone and independently verified his interpretation
    through written Daoist sources. To be honest, I’ve felt
    no such need. Furthermore, in addition to M. Winn’s
    teachings, I reference my own personal interpretation of
    his teachings. Thus if there is any discrepancy between
    what M. Winn preaches and what I’ve described, then that
    discrepancy lies solely with my personal interpretation
    of what was taught, although I don’t *think* there is
    too much deviation.

    Of course, part of the reason I’ve not gone to too much effort
    to verify certain Daoist terminology is because I’m not
    one to explore the technical Daoist jargon too much. In
    fact, as I’m sure you’ve noticed, I rarely make
    such references in my posts on this list. Owing to the
    years of teaching college algebra to students who only
    want to know the “bottom line”, I’ve graduated from the
    school of “Keep It Simple, Stupid” ๐Ÿ˜‰ Which is why
    cutting out the technical philosophy and just getting
    to the essence is why I said “YOU are the pearl”. I
    don’t think you lose much by looking at the picture from
    this simplified perspective, and if anything, I would
    argue it even clarifies it a bit. ^_^

    >>>A question.
    >>>Are we born with a pearl?

    As per the previous discussion, the pearl is the energetic
    vehicle of crystallized consciousness that “houses” the FIVE SHEN.
    This is created with the XIN upon the birth of human life. Awareness
    of it, is another matter entirely. I would argue that many would not
    be aware of it. The visual image itself of the pearl is just a
    visual projection on the mind of the actual manifestation of one’s
    consciousness when sufficiently condensed in a certain area–say
    the lower dantian. The movement of the “pearl” around the MO say,
    is nothing more, nothing less than the physical observation of this
    condensed, localized consciousness of the essence of what is you.

    >>>If yes is there something about the pearl
    >>>that can come into this life but not maintain itself in the next?

    My opinion to the answer to this question I believe has to been
    answered via the discussion earlier in this same posting about
    my “clarification”.

    Hope you are well, my friend,
    Steven

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