Cultivating Qi vs. Cultivating Wisdom

I don’t agree with the assessment that “de” is integrity.

Virtue and integrity are different things.

Virtue implies behavior that is harmonious with the collective.
Integrity simply implies behavior that is self-harmonious,
behavior in which you do not violate your own core truths.

I would agree that integrity is important, but I think
it is also important to cultivate virtue.

I think cultivation needs to cultivate two things:

1. Harmony within the self
e.g. self-acceptance, integrity, bringing forth the
true unpolluted self from beneath the surface clouds

2. Compassion and empathy for others
e.g. virtue, loving kindness, treating others with as
much love as one has for oneself

I think most of us have deficiencies in these two areas,
either berating and traumatizing ourselves with our
own mind/emotions/self-judgments, or failing to show
genuine heartfelt care and compassion to others with
true empathy. [and in a lot of cases, both of these!]

If you only work on one of these two things,
in my opinion you are only considering half of the equation,
and you will come out half-baked.

In my humble view,
Steven

Christian martyrs were usually tried and killed by hostile forces. The majority of the monks I shall discuss terminated their lives voluntarily although at least one was executed.
-BRYAN J. CUEVAS & JACQUELINE I. STONE, The Buddhist Dead: Practices, Discourses, Representations

Self-immolation is tolerated by some elements of Mahayana Buddhism and Hinduism, and it has been practiced for many centuries, especially in India, for various reasons, including Sati, political protest, devotion, and renouncement. Certain warrior cultures, such as in the Charans and Rajputs, also practiced self-immolation.
Two well-known Jataka tales, Buddhist myths about previous incarnations of the Buddha, concern self-immolation. In the “Hungry Tigress” Jataka, Prince Sattva looked down from a cliff and saw a starving tigress that was going to eat her newborn cubs, and compassionately sacrificed his body in order to feed the tigers and spare their lives. In the “Sibi Jataka”, King Œibi or Shibi was renowned for unselfishness, and the Hindu gods Œakra and Vishvakarman tested him by transforming into a hawk and a dove. The dove fell on the king’s lap while trying to escape the hawk, and sought refuge. Rather than surrender the dove, Œibi offered his own flesh equivalent in weight to the dove, and the hawk agreed. They had rigged the balance scale, and King Œibi continued cutting off his flesh until half his body was gone, when the gods revealed themselves, restored his body, and blessed him…But “abandoning the body” also covers a broad range of more extreme acts (not all of which necessarily result in death): feeding one’s body to insects; slicing off one’s flesh; burning one’s fingers or arms; burning incense on the skin; starving, slicing, or drowning oneself; leaping from cliffs or trees; feeding one’s body to wild animals; self-mummification (preparing for death so that the resulting corpse is impervious to decay); and of course, auto-cremation.
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-immolation

Simple question: are these really acceptable practices?

For example in the Lotus Sutra self-immolation is thought by Medicine Buddha.

HOWDY

One, how is it that the Bodhisattva Medicine King roams throughout the Saha world? World Honored One, Medicine King Bodhisattva has undertaken so many hundreds of thousands of myriads of kotis of nayutas of bitter practices, so difficult to practice.”

“It would be excellent, World Honored One, if you would please explain a bit. All the gods, dragons, yakshas, gandharvas, asuras, garudas, kinnaras, mahoragas, humans, non-humans, and so forth, and the Bodhisattvas who have come from other lands, as well as the assembly of Hearers, on hearing it, will rejoice.”

The Buddha then told the Bodhisattva Constellation-King-Flower “Once, as many eons ago as there are grains of sand in limitless Ganges rivers, there was a Buddha by the name of Virtue Pure and Bright Like the Sun and Moon, Thus Come One, One Worthy of Offerings, One of Right and Universal Knowledge, One Perfect in Clarity and Conduct, Well-Gone One Who Understands the World, Unsurpassed Lord, Regulating Hero, Teacher of Humans and Gods, Buddha, World Honored One. That Buddha had eighty kotis of great Bodhisattvas, Mahasattvas, and a great assembly of Hearers equal in number to the sand grains in seventy-two Ganges Rivers. His life span as a Buddha was forty-two thousand eons. The life spans of the Bodhisattvas were the same. In his country there were no women, hell-beings, hungry ghosts, animals, or asuras, and so forth, and also no difficulties. The ground was as level as the palm of one’s hand, made of Vaidurya, adorned with jeweled trees, covered with jeweled nets, and hung with beautiful banners. It was surrounded everywhere with precious vases and censers. There were terraces made of the seven gems, one terrace for each tree, the trees being separated from the terraces by a distance of an arrow’s flight. Beneath each tree sat Bodhisattvas and Hearers. Upon each of the terraces were hundreds of kotis of gods playing heavenly music and singing praises to the Buddha as an offering.”

At that time, that Buddha, for the sake of the Bodhisattva All Beings Delight in Seeing, as well as for the host of Bodhisattvas and the host of Hearers, spoke The Dharma Flower Sutra.

The Bodhisattva All Beings Delight in Seeing enjoyed practicing ascetic practices. Within the Dharma of the Buddha Virtue Pure and Bright Like the Sun and Moon, he applied himself with vigor, single-mindedly seeking Buddhahood for a full twelve thousand years. He then obtained the samadhi of the manifestation of all physical forms.

Having obtained this samadhi, his heart rejoiced greatly and he immediately thought, “I have obtained the samadhi of the manifestation of all physical forms. This is through the power of having heard The Dharma Flower Sutra. I should now make an offering to the Buddha Virtue Pure and Bright Like the Sun and Moon, and to The Dharma Flower Sutra.”

He then entered that samadhi and as an offering to the Buddha, he rained down mandarava flowers and mahamandarava flowers from space. Finely ground, hard, black chandana also filled the sky and descended like clouds. And there rained the incense of ‘this shore’ chandana, six karshas of which are worth the entire Saha world, as an offering to the Buddha.

Having made this offering, he arose from samadhi. He thought to himself, “Although by means of spiritual powers I have made this offering to the Buddha, it is not as good as offering my body.” He then swallowed incense of many kinds, chandana, kunduruka, turushka, prikka, aloeswood, and resin incense. He also drank the oil of champaka and other flowers, for a full twelve hundred years. He smeared himself with fragrant oil, and in the presence of the Buddha Virtue Pure and Bright Like the Sun and Moon, he wrapped himself in heavenly jeweled robes and poured fragrant oil over himself. Then by means of spiritual penetration power and vows, he burned his own body. The light shone everywhere throughout worlds in number to the grains of sand in eighty kotis of Ganges Rivers.

Within them all, the Buddhas simultaneously praised him, saying, “Good indeed! Good indeed! Good man, this is true vigor. This is called a true Dharma offering to the Thus Come One. Offerings of flowers, incense, beads, burning incense, ground incense, paste incense, heavenly cloth, banners, canopies, ‘this shore’ chandana incense, and all such offerings of various kinds, cannot come up to it. If one gave away one’s countries, cities, wives and children, that also could not match it. Good man, this is called foremost giving. Among all gifts, it is the most honored and most supreme, because it is an offering of the Dharma to the Thus Come Ones.” Having uttered these words, they became silent.

His body burned for twelve hundred years, after which time it was consumed.

When the Bodhisattva All Beings Delight in Seeing had made this Dharma offering and his life had come to an end, he was born again. In the country of the Buddha Virtue Pure and Bright Like the Sun and Moon, in the household of the King Pure Virtue, he was born suddenly by transformation, seated in full lotus.

He immediately spoke this verse to his father:

“Your majesty, you should now know:
I, cultivating in that place,
All at once attained
The samadhi of the manifestation of all forms.
Diligently practicing great vigor,
I renounced the body I cherished,
As an offering to the World Honored One,
In order to seek supreme wisdom.”

Having spoken this verse, he said to his father, “The Buddha Virtue Pure and Bright Like the Sun and Moon is still present from of old. Formerly, after making an offering to that Buddha, I gained the dharani of understanding the speech of all living beings. I further heard The Dharma Flower Sutra with its eight hundred thousand myriads of kotis of nayutas of kankaras, vivaras, akshobhyas and so forth of verses. Great King, I should now return and make offerings to this Buddha.”

Just then he sat on a platform made of the seven treasures, rose up into space to the height of seven tala trees, went into the Buddha’s presence, bowed with his head at the Buddha’s feet, placed his ten fingers together, and spoke this verse in praise of the Buddha:

“How amazing and rare the countenance,
With its light shining in ten directions!
I formerly made offerings
To you to whom I now behold once again.”

When the Bodhisattva All Beings Delight in Seeing had spoken this verse, he then spoke to the Buddha saying, “World Honored One! World Honored One! You are still in the world!”

The Buddha Virtue Pure and Bright Like the Sun and Moon told the Bodhisattva All Beings Delight in Seeing, “Good man, the time of my Parinirvana has arrived. The time for my passing into stillness has arrived. You can arrange my couch, for tonight I shall enter Parinirvana.”

He further commanded the Bodhisattva All Beings Delight in Seeing, “Good man, I entrust you, all the Bodhisattvas and great disciples, with the Buddhadharma, and also with the Dharma of Anuttarasamyaksambodhi. I also entrust to you the worlds of the seven treasures throughout the three thousand great thousand world systems, with their jeweled trees, jeweled terraces, and gods in waiting. After mypassing into stillness, I also entrust you with all my sharira. You should distribute them and vastly make offerings to them. You should build several thousand stupas.”

In this way, the Buddha Virtue Pure and Bright Like the Sun and Moon having commanded the Bodhisattva All Beings Delight in Seeing, in the last watch of the night entered Nirvana.

Seeing the Buddha pass intostillness, the Bodhisattva was sorely grieved and longed for the Buddha. He then built a pyre of ‘this shore’ chandana incense as an offering to that Buddha’s body, and set it on fire . When the fire had consumed itself, he collected the sharira, made eighty-four thousand jeweled urns and built eighty-four thousand stupas, three worlds in height, adorned with poles, from which hung banners, canopies, and many jeweled bells.

The Bodhisattva All Beings Delight in Seeing then further thought to himself, “Although I have made this offering, my heart is not yet satisfied. I should now make further offerings to the sharira.” He then spoke to the Bodhisattvas and great disciples, to the gods, the dragons, the yakshas, and so forth in the great assembly, saying, “All of you pay attention, and bring your thoughts to one, for I am now going to make offerings to the sharira of the Buddha Virtue Pure and Bright Like the Sun and Moon.” Having said that, in front of the eighty-four thousand stupas, as an offering he burned his arms, with their adornments of a hundred blessings, for seventy-two thousand years thereby causing countless multitudes of hosts seeking to be Hearers, and limitless asamkheyas of people to bring forth the resolve for Anuttarasamyaksambodhi, and enabling them to dwell in the samadhi of the manifestation of all physical forms.

At that time all the Bodhisattvas, gods, humans, asuras and so forth, seeing him without arms, were smitten with grief and said, “The Bodhisattva All Beings Delight in Seeing is our teacher. He has taught and transformed us, and now his arms are burnt off and his body deformed.”

http://cttbusa.org/lotus/lotus23.asp

Let us now place the whole event before ourselves as an initiation. Jesus loved Lazarus (John 11:36). This indicates no ordinary affection. The latter would be contrary to the spirit of John’s Gospel, in which Jesus is the “Word.” Jesus loved Lazarus because he found him ready for the awakening of the “Word” within him. Jesus was connected with the family at Bethany. This simply means that Jesus had prepared everything in that family for the great final act of the drama: the raising of Lazarus. Lazarus was the pupil of Jesus. He was a pupil of such caliber that Jesus could be quite certain that the awakening would be accomplished in him. The final act of the drama of awakening was a pictorial action revealing the Spirit. The person involved in it not only had to understand the words, “Die and come to life,” he had to fulfill them himself by a spiritually real action. His earthly part, of which his higher being in the sense of the Mysteries must be ashamed, had to be laid aside. The earthly part had to die a pictorially real death. The fact that his body was then put into a somnambulistic sleep for three days can only be regarded, in contrast to the immensity of the transformation of life which preceded it, as an external event to which a far more significant spiritual one corresponds. This act, however, was indeed also the experience which divided the life of the mystic into two parts.
– RUDOLF STEINER, Christianity As Mystical Fact

In mathematics, injections, surjections and bijections are classes of functions distinguished by the manner in which arguments (input expressions from the domain) and images (output expressions from the codomain) are related or mapped to each other.
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bijection,_injection_and_surjection

That, you see, was the intention of Lucifer and Ahriman from the beginning of Earth-evolution — to let the whole of this evolution disappear into the Eighth Sphere. It was therefore necessary that a counterweight should be created by those Spirits who belong to the Hierarchy of the Spirits of Form. The outer counterweight they created consists in this: into the “space”, as it were, of the Eighth Sphere something was inserted which works against this Eighth Sphere. To present this correctly, we must show the Earth here, and the Eighth Sphere here. The Eighth Sphere belongs to our physical Earth in the sense indicated. We are surrounded everywhere by the Imaginations into which the aim is that mineral materiality shall continually be drawn. There lies the reason for the sacrifice made by Jahve or Jehovah — the precipitation of substance far denser than the other mineralised substance. This was established by Jahve as Moon, as the counteracting agent. It was substance of extreme density — and this density was described by Sinnett as substance of a far denser physical-mineral character than exists anywhere on the Earth. Hence Lucifer and Ahriman cannot dissolve it away into their world of Imaginations. And so this Moon circles around as a globe of dense matter, solid, dense, indestructible. If you read carefully enough you will find that even the descriptions of the Moon given by physicists tally with this. Everything that was available on the Earth was drawn out and placed there in order that there should be enough physical matter incapable of being wrested away. When we look at the Moon, we see there in the Universe a substance far more intensely mineralised, far physically denser, than exists anywhere on the Earth. Jahve or Jehovah, then, must be regarded as that Being who even in the physical domain has ensured that not all materiality can be drawn away by Lucifer and Ahriman. And then, at the right time, equal care will be taken by the same Spirit that the Moon shall re-enter the Earth when the Earth is strong enough to receive it, when the danger is averted by the development that has meanwhile taken place.
-RUDOLF STEINER, The Occult Movement in the Nineteenth Century

Darkseid is one of the most powerful and evil characters in the DC Universe. Debuting in the Bronze Age of Comic Books, he has appeared in four decades of DC Comics publications, featuring prominently in the New Gods titles and limited series as the arch nemesis of the New Gods and Superman (and by extension the Justice League).
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkseid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq2y-hsZSTE (harakiri)

In my opinion, what comes to understanding Chinese conceptions, one should learn to read characters. To be able to find one-to-one correspondence with some Indo-European language expression seem quite difficult.

This Chao Pi Ch’en text, if otherwise quite limited with its scope, but still quite interesting, is actually very good as a Bible or Quran type of study material, in my opinion.

And well, I have impression that some dark paths just consciously try to prolong separated existence from “collective self” or find annihilation within “integrated collective self.”

Would any reasonable person try to represent some kind of omniscient poin-of-view without having as well far enough developt omnipotence.

Most of these philosophical questions are hopelessly unanswerable.

HOWDY

Ps. Sorry for my broken English.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4qisJhenJw (thosemen)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPnMqqClv-E (hulksuperman)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj2FJXg2LnA (thatteam)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEvJHxyz2n4 (chaps)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkQFZy8jPkE (tenants)

The rendering for the Hebrew “ben adam,” applied to mankind in general, as opposed to and distinct from non-human relationship; expressing also the larger, unlimited implications of humanity as differentiated from limited (e.g., national) forms and aspects of human life. Thus, contrasted with the “sons of God” (“bene Elohim”) are the “daughters of man” (“benot ha-adam”), women taken by the former, non-human or super-human, beings as wives (Gen. vi. 2 et seq.). As expressing difference from God, the term occurs in the blessing of Balaam: “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent” (Num. xxiii. 19). Similarly, David appealing to Saul puts Yhwh over and against the children of men (I Sam. xxvi. 19). The punishment of God, also, is contrasted with that of the “children of men,” the former being much more severe, as appears from the promise solemnly given to David (II Sam. vii. 14). God alone knows the heart of the “children of man” (II Chron. vi. 29 et seq.). In the prayer in which this thought is expressed, “man” is used in distinction to the “people of Israel”; indeed, “children of men” appears to mark a contrast to “children of Israel” in the Song of Moses (Deut. xxxii. 8, R. V.).
-http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13913-son-of-man

These Necromantic rituals are neither “black” nor “white” magick. They are rites of twilight, a merging of dark and light in a beautiful and natural union where all dividing lines become a blur.
-LEILAH WENDELL, The Necromantic Ritual Book

Martyr, died about 305. According to legend he was the son of a rich pagan, Eustorgius of Nicomedia, and had been instructed in Christianity by his Christian mother, Eubula. Afterwards he became estranged from Christianity. He studied medicine and became physician to the Emperor Maximinianus. He was won back to Christianity by the priest Hermolaus. Upon the death of his father he came into possession of a large fortune. Envious colleagues denounced him to the emperor during the Diocletian persecution. The emperor wished to save him and sought to persuade him to apostasy. Pantaleon, however, openly confessed his faith, and as proof that Christ is the true God, he healed a paralytic. Notwithstanding this, he was condemned to death by the emperor, who regarded the miracle as an exhibition of magic. According to legend, Pantaleon’s flesh was first burned with torches; upon this Christ appeared to all in the form of Hermolaus to strengthen and heal Pantaleon. The torches were extinguished. After this, when a bath of liquid lead was prepared, Christ in the same form stepped into the cauldron with him, the fire went out and the lead became cold. He was now thrown into the sea, but the stone with which he was loaded floated. He was thrown to the wild beasts but these fawned upon him and could not be forced away until he had blessed them. He was bound on the wheel, but the ropes snapped, and the wheel broke. An attempt was made to behead him, but the sword bent, and the executioners were converted. Pantaleon implored heaven to forgive them, for which reason he also received the name of Panteleemon (the all-compassionate). It was not until he himself desired it that it was possible to behead him.
-http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11447a.htm

I think that “cultivating wisdom” would fall under the neidangong imiperative to cultivate one’s “de” (te), commonly translated as “virtue” but more accurately as “integrity”. Integrity in Qi cultivation implies the personal, social, and cosmic dimensions are harmonized.
-http://forum.healingdao.com/philosophy/message/23442/

You are posing a dualistic universe, in which the personal self has a different reality from the collective self. they are one process. You cannot have integrity in isolation from the collective – the “virtues” you express outwardly are the same qualities that you hold towards yourself.
so I don’t find your semantic distinction useful. Your definition of virtue implies that it does not exist until expressed outwardly in the world. But the very nature of virtue is Taoist practice is a pre=natal quality that arises within. It is not defined by its post-natal parameters – that would subject virtue to corruption and social mediation as to what qualifies as virtue. It arises as an aspect of one’s soul, it’s destiny-gift, so to speak.
-http://forum.healingdao.com/philosophy/message/23463/

This term comes from the books of Carlos Castaneda. The Seers believed that a Tyrant was in charge of the world. On Earth, then, impossible people in authoritarian positions, which one has to deal with in life, were assigned the classification of “Petty Tyrants”. There were several subcategories of Petty Tyrants, as outlined by the Seer Don Juan in “The Fire from Within”:
I. TYRANT: primal source of energy, ruler of the universe.
A. Petty Tyrants -tyrannical rulers or authoritarian persons who actually hold power over life or death of others.
B. Minor Petty Tyrants – Tormentors who are fearsome and inflict misery, but do not hold any real power over life or death of others. (two subcategories 🙂
1. Little Petty Tyrants – (Four types 🙂
a. Torments with violence and cruelty
b. Torments by inducing fear through deviousness
c. Torments by subjugate another through sadness
d. Torments by making another act in anger rage.
2. Teensy-weensy Petty tyrants/Small-Fry Petty Tyrants: tormentors who are just frustrating, exasperating and annoy to distraction.
-http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=587

Kinderman’s stare was more firm and even. “The physicists now are all certain,” he said , “that all the known processes in nature were once part of a single, unified force.” Kinderman paused and then spoke more quietly. “I believe that this force was a person who long ago tore himself into pieces because of his longing to shape his own being. That was the Fall,” he said,”the ‘Big Bang’: the beginning of time and the material universe when the one became many-legion. And that is why God cannot interfere: evolution is this person growing back into himself.”
-WILLIAM PETER BLATTY, Legion

I think one could take also a look at Michael Winn’s hidden Carlos Castaneda posting and one can find it here: http://forum.healingdao.com/general/message/22068/

Is Castaneda now somebody really working for the Dark Side?

It’s clear that these same themes come always back again.

If one is using Castaneda’s ideas still further neither meter man nor your spouse is necessarily a good influence from certain point of view.

Both are there mostly to engage oneself deeper into samsara and spoiling one’s karma.

What about St. Pantaleon, did his virtues help him to be better socially integrated?

How are personal, social and cosmic dimensions then harmonized?

Clearly it hasn’t happened yet, but when will it then happen?

When it comes to destiny (personal sense) level already there it might be quite difficult.

If Castaneda was working for the Dark Side then one can understand how important it’s to work out certain things with those Petty Tyrants.

You cannot have integrity in isolation from the collective…I think here it is. You first work out vidya and start to prepare to go further with avidya-your true destiny.

The “virtues” you express outwardly are the same qualities that you hold towards yourself…here it comes again. With Castaneda type of orientation you look for troubles, you look after certain type of Petty Tyrant and if you survive with that, you continue with other things. This petty-tyrant-thing is one of the first steps for
self-chosen “dualism.”

Sorry for my broken English.

HOWDY

Ps. disharmonius destinies=petty tyrants (?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQhEHKqB7Xc (venomI)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldvaqRo-IAs (venomII)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtTdnCFL8xg (altar)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJFXFH6I8Tk (hanneman)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBRS8H24NI4 (voivod)

One of the most delightful stories I have heard about developing the powers of concentration comes from a wonderful book called Beyond Words by Swami Satchidananda. In his story , a man asks a sorcerer to produce a demon that will do anything he wants. The sorcerer agrees, but warns the man that if he does not keep the demon busy, it will devour him. Convinced that he has enough work for a lifetime, the man asks the sorcerer to summon the demon.
Soon the demon arrives, and the man asks it to build him a huge palace with the finest furnishings. In a few minutes the demon is done and awaits the man’s next command. The man then asks the demon to provide the palace with scores of servants and a fleet of fancy cars. In an instant the work is done and the demon is back asking for more work. Next the man asks for food, and the demon instantly produces a gourmet meal fit for a king.
At this point man starts to get upset. He realizes that he may not be able to think enoughthings to keep the demon busy.
“Quick” says the demon. “Gime me some work, or I’ll devour you!”
The man thinks some other thinks of some other things, but only enough to buy him some time. Then he rushes out the door. In his flight he comes upon a holy man and begs him to keep the demon from devouring him.
Unperturbed, the holy man plucks a curly hair from his head and hands it to the man, saying, “Give this to the demon and tell him to keep it straight.”
Just then the demon arrives, demanding more work. The man gives him the hair and tells him to keep it straight. The demon straightens the hair between his fingers. But no sooner does he let go than it springs back. Each time he straightens it and lets go, it curls up again, keeping him endlessly occupied. Thereafter, when the man has some work he wants done, he takes the hair from the demon and gives it back to him again when the job is done. That way, the demon is always under control.
-TOM BROWN’S Field Guide: Nature Observation and Tracking

“What did the old sorcerers see that made them conclude that perception takes place on the assemblage point?” I asked.
He answered that, first, they saw that out of the millions of the universe’s luminous
energy filaments passing through the entire luminous ball, only a small number pass
directly through the assemblage point, as should be expected since it is small in
comparison with the whole.
Next, they saw that a spherical extra glow, slightly bigger than the assemblage point, always surrounds it, greatly intensifying the luminosity of the filaments passing directly through that glow.
Finally, they saw two things. One, that the assemblage points of human beings can
dislodge themselves from the spot where they are usually located. And, two, that when
the assemblage point is on its habitual position, perception and awareness seem to be
normal, judging by the normal behavior of the subjects being observed. But when their
assemblage points and surrounding glowing spheres are on a different position than the habitual one, their unusual behavior seems to be the proof that their awareness is different, that they are perceiving in an unfamiliar manner. The conclusion the old sorcerers drew from all this was that the greater the displacement of the assemblage point from its customary position, the more unusual the consequent
behavior and, evidently, the consequent awareness and perception.
-CARLOS CASTANEDA, The Art of Dreaming

I have impression that if somebody is not experienced in meditation these lying positions like shavasana, advasana, matsya kridasana etc. are of quite limited use as a meditational practice.

I mean relaxation is something which can be experienced by anybody, but dream practice would be something much more advanced.

I don’t have anything to do with Bihar School of Yoga, but I again think Swami Satyananda Saraswati’s text about this subject is exceptional. I think that like Shivananda he has been very much like mission builder, which means that he has used very much time for something else than is good for one’s own development, but enough techniques have been elucidated.

My idea is to sharpen one’s recollection abilities anyway but also as a preparation for yoga nidra.

It would be possible to try to understand this process technically but I personally prefer in the moment to brood over these things in Buddhist or otherwise Indian terms so this is maybe not right situation.

Certain things are not necessarily to be found for example from books but what comes to these Indian practices some of the advanced ones are meant to be done in various lying positions.

HOWDY

Ps. There’s a Romanian guy called Gregorian Bivolaru. He has quite bad reputation for various reasons but for example from his lineage one can learn also few interesting things.