October 7, 2006 at 10:05 pm #18434
Here we go again.
Sean Denty, a lovely young,big eyed kid from Kalamazoo. Does some summer workstudy at Big Indian back in the late 90’s until we move to Dao Mtn. Over practices with his sexual energy, doesn’t balance it enough with meditation and grounding. Admits to me by email he is having problems, is way ungrounded. I offer a few suggestions by email. He decides to work with Ron Diana, iron shirt master.
I am aabsolutely honest with Sean about Chia’s strengths and weaknesses. He tells me at the time he respects what I’m teaching, even though he hasn’t progressed very far in the system. But he eventually leaves, says it isn’t his path, he needs to go on a quest for the Magus of Java, what do I think? I tell him go for it, let me know what you find.
Now years, later, after wasting 4 years and big bucks chasing the Magus and getting nowhere, he lands with David Shen. This time, he has got to get it right, otherwise the Great Search has a bad ending.
Now, a few days ago Sean begins posting on Tao bums about how corrupt the Healing Dao is, only made up formulas sold for money, a “complete scam”. That Chia stopped studying with One Cloud at age 13. (Truth: age 19).
That Chia made up the alchemical formulas for money. (Total falsehood, probably Sean Denty parroting David Shen, who is bitter about his failed relationship with Chia). Truth: formulas similar to HT formulas can be found, at least up to the Lesser kan & Li level, in print and in various Taoist and Buddhist alchemical traditions.
All of these blatant falsehoods make we wonder if nice, sincere boy Sean Denty has been duped into believing all his stories, or just needs to support his new recruiting efforts by demonizing the HT and ascaring away the competition.
Of course, it takes a few days of cynical prompting by the sharp group over at Tao Bums to pry it out of him: Only $7,500. (6000 euros) for a 2-3 week training – tuition only, in Denmark, to get the Foundation Training of how to open your dantian.
And then more money to visit the Teacher in Thailand, and then after several years you will be introduced to the Teacher in China. And only if they look in your third eye and see that its your “fate” to study with them. Eventually, there is a hnt of the Big Teaser: Wang Li Ping walking through doors, get trained in levitation. That without these powers, you really haven’t achieved anything spiritually.
Nothing done here for money, no scams. Suddenly this $7500. tuition fee is described as “reasonable, of course, for the opportunity to start with a real master”.
And David Shen has improved his tale since we last saw him, and the details are recounted in a breathless style that is better than any romantic kung-fu novel I have read since the Wandering Taoist trilogy (a great read, but unfortunately completely made up. Ken Cohen recently confirmed to me Kwan Sai Hung was born in NYC as a Franklin Tan (?), Ken had seen his passport while they were sharing trainings).
The David Shen story has gotten much better than his channeled tales about the iimmortal dajen. A secret hierarchy of masters in China, secret sacred dharma wheels that the Dalai Lama is begging to get back. But only the True Seeker need signup for this special $7500. opportunity – only for someone who knows in advance that they are signing up for Life Time committment with David Shen and his huge entourage of masters.
Note: for the curious, Details of Wang LI Ping’s meditation techniques have already been published for free in the Empty Vessel, by someone else claiming to be his student, but obviously not iinterested in collecting a lot of money. The methods detailed in those articles basically involve cultivating “lines” of chi into the Third Eye and then down into the body along the same lines as detailed in the Inner Smile (front line of organs, back spine, middle digestive line). Looks like perfectly good meditation techniques.
Back to the $7500, to open your dantian. Of course, the caveat is offered that it doesn’t really happen unless you practice 3 hours of meditation daily for the 2 years after the training and before you are taught anything else.
But you’d think anyone smart enough to practice that much wouldn’t also be dumb enough to pay that much to learn how to meditate on concentrating chi in the dantian. The wudang spinning pearl meditation preparatory to the orbit will do just fine. If you spend 3 hours a day on it you will not know what to do with all the energy that starts buzzing. And you will need the orbit to balance it in the body, contrary to the disinformation that David is iputting out, that the orbit is insignificant. (Perhaps in his new tradition – but why try to tell adepts of other paths/schools what works and what doenn’t?).
The $7500. however, makes me realize I am hopelessly non-commercial – you could buy my entire homestudy course series for about $1,500…….about the cost of a week at a low rent fat farm. Even though it will take 5 years to go thru it – the first time round.
Of course, if you believe Sean’s kung-fu romance, nobody but David Shen is real, so everyone else in the world is a waste of time and money. The big wide eyed kid from Kalamazoo is now the authority on that.
Of course, I am having a bit of fun offering some sober distance on Sean’s second hand story claims.
I don’t know what David’s curent reality is – I heard he had finally allowed himself to have a stable relationship and was pursuing his life’s dreams. Great – I truly wish him well, and hope it adds someting to the global spiritual science that will inevitably evolve from a synthesis of many traditions.
Sean’s recounting of David’s listing of the Taoist internal traditions is one view (now changed from David’s past lists, I note) – and other teachers and Daoist scholars I’ve met in China list them completely differently. But some of the cited details are interesting, even if only remotely useful to most western practitioners.
I fully accept the most extraordinary feats are possible, even if they don’t really interest me enough to make them the subject of my life’s quest. Spontaneously arising special abilities are great – that is, a great responsibility to use them wisely.
By the way, I believe Sean’s teacher in Bangkok, Thailand – a master Luo – is credible. That’s the ” Sherfu L” word he is carefully concealing. I know from other people who are studying with him and think he is real. A woman I know tried to bring him over to the USA, and wanted my help. Didn’t work out. He too used to work at Tao Garden…But you can get to him without paying David Shen $7,500……
I just hope that Sean resolves his anger about his past, and stops using his anger to dump on other teachers about whom he knows very little, despite his status as work-study apprentice in Big Indian many years ago.
And I hope that Sean stops using his anger over what he failed to accomplish in his own HT practice to elevate his latest newest Teacher. Getting a handle on his emotional body is probably more important than him feeling a sparkler in his crown.
The real lesson in all these romantic kung-fu novel tales – is that there is no “secret system” that REALLY works. It all comes down to each individual working REALLY HARD in whatever system they are attracted to – People work, methods and schools don’t do anything alone.
I wil be happy to have someone else pay the $7500 and share what they learned. This is the age in which all the secrets will come out eventually. Of course, we know the old psychology – once you’ve paid that much money, you’ve got to defend what you learned as incredible…..
Incredibly Yours For Life,
MichaelOctober 8, 2006 at 12:07 am #18435
….Lao Kang Wen is a good man not any sort of highly achieved dude, met him in TG pissed off becuase Chia taught as usual stealing what is not his and deforming it to better sell to the crowd:-)
it is NOT the same person the guys met in Bangkok at All!…
all the rest well are prsonal opinions like it or not believe it or not… just food for toughts…October 8, 2006 at 1:23 am #18437
Micheal says All secrets will come out eventually…very opinionable, but that’s what we like to believe and what they like us to believe maybe… anyway even if the outer form of them come out who will achieve them? Micheal point out that the formulas are in the texts, yes the drawing and descriptions, but with the descriptions also come the description of the expected results, that NO ONE in the HT or UT has achieved, it prooves the point that the formulas are made up because anyone that read chinese can then be a masetr and teach them, point is they would not work because there is much more behind the drawing.
Let us remember that Chia started out teaching immortal practices to create a real solid, visibe foetus and immortal body.
In the back of his books it described the amazing levels you could achieve by practicing, he describe at the level of lesser Kan li your body would shrink and then dissolve in to rainbow and then you would live only nails…and then daylight ascension… and more, that you could project your foetus and everybody could see it because it was solid, he even use to tell his dream was to ascend in daylight in front of Tv wroldwide! hey those were the Hey Days… i like many others were in the classes, i even got some of those magic moments on tape!
Did anyone in the HT and UT actually achieved anything like this??? this were the ORIGINAL PROMISES and PURPOSES lets not forget it.
Is it or it is not true that because of failure of this dream Chia himself, Winn, Ron, Gunther, Juan Li, Navarro, and all the old dogs at first kept searching out of the system that did not fulfilled their dreams and eventually seems like they gave it up, and now when someone is trying to rekindle the flame of a hope is bashed as Kung Fu novels.
What if the dream is real? what if Sean and many of David Students have seen is real did they all Hallucinated do they all have issues???
Is everybody too afraid to dream the dream again??? wouldn’t be worthy to pay for it?? and don’t you think that 20 years of HT costed you more even if just in term of the precious time and Dream-energy you put in to it??? what if with lets say 10.000 you could actually achieve what originally those prctices were intended for and witness someone who did achieve it???
Again just food for tought i think would be nice to work together and be more open to certain possibilities, and admit that it is Daoism we speak about, where achievement of concrete results count.October 10, 2006 at 11:38 am #18439
rares. you speak about
>I don’t really have the competency to judge and compare other people’s experiences as of course I have done my share of false hopes, some induced by fake gurus met in the early years of practice, some induced by David Verdesi also.<
would you mind giving some insights of what you mean, please?
thankx in advanceOctober 10, 2006 at 5:00 pm #18441
Thankx very much. So you’d basically say it is a good idea to train with him?October 11, 2006 at 3:48 am #18443
Honest thanx!October 12, 2006 at 5:22 am #18445
Regarding the posts by rares. I really don’t think this person went with Sean and I and the other 4 people to meet with Sifu L in Thailand. All the people that went with David in August have already signed up to return to study with David next summer. Rare’s comments don’t sound like someone who was happy with David as a teacher and would return to study with him. Of course if rares actually did go and emails me in private, and lets me know who he is, I would be happy to correct this post. I mean everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just don’t think that this person went with us.October 12, 2006 at 5:43 am #18447
I finally managed to find this guys posting. The HT forum is rather prehistoric and I didn’t scroll down enough; nobody can stretch a dime like Michael Winn! Ron used to tease him because he was so freaked out about making a buck; selling Daoist formulas like a used car salesman. (said in good fun)
Anyway, I don’t think Rares is saying he was with our group, but with another group led by David.
Here’s my two cents: I think the guy is pretty reasonable. But, his is just one view, fueled, of course by the same pride that fuels all of us to dismiss things such as this. If you read it carefully, he’s basically saying the same thing Michael Winn has been saying for the past 15 years, “I have gotten to a point where I’m satisfied that I know enough and I’m comfortable.” My Buddhist training has taught me a little about human nature and it basically is in line with what David has said. Basically, pride, which is the idea that we don’t need or don’t want to learn anymore from others, is the most common human characteristic when it comes to most of us. I guess I’ve just made a personal commmitment to keep learning and stay humble. Beware the arrogance of ignorance, as David states over and over in his conversations with us. He simply means that there is never a point where someone can say, “I know enough” and be right.
My first Tai Chi teacher, from China and a Buddhist, was fond of saying, “There’s always a higher mountain.” He understood what keeping life in perspective is all about.
In all fairness, it is quite possible that Michael or this Rares are actually on to something and prefer to consult the “Guru within, so to speak.” But, personally, I prefer a guide who has reached a high level in their practice, because that’s what I’m into and I think I will progress faster and more effectively and I’m willing to pay for it. Anyway, we all get to where we are going in our own time and are own way and it’s ment to be that way.
Best, SeanOctober 12, 2006 at 10:29 am #18449
Rares, Thank you for the clarification and your post. I apologize for misunderstanding your previous posts. Yes David has taken other groups to meet Sifu L before ours. I had just thought you were saying you had gone with my group.September 5, 2007 at 6:53 am #18451
I have been reading a lot on who’s who on the Dao Planet today. I found this video which if I am not mistaking is of David Shen and who appears to be one of his teachers. Is that so?
Maybe not that expensive after all…
LiubaMay 16, 2012 at 9:30 pm #18453
any update on this? It is interesting reading
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