August 14, 2007 at 10:46 pm #23495
Does anyone have any experience with . How difficult is it and how long does it take? What is your experience with it. I have been doing the Tai Chi for enlightenment and really enjoy it. Is the deep healing chi kung a more potent healing form?August 15, 2007 at 2:45 am #23496
I’ve had a lot of experience with the Deep Healing Qigong.
In fact, it was the first form I learned in the system,
and I fell in love with it.
It is a longer form than the Primordial. Depending on
your speed, the standard version can take 40 minutes or more.
It can take a while to learn, but the easiest thing to do
(which I did) is to just not worry about learning it and
to put the DVD in, and follow Michael whenever you want
to practice. After some period of time–I don’t recall how
long–I realized I could just do it without the DVD.
Which is more powerful? I don’t know.
Michael uses the Primordial in Greater Kan and Li
and uses the Deep Healing in Greatest Kan and Li,
so both of them are really powerful forms.
By experience, I’ve only practiced the Primordial
twice so far (haven’t really learned it yet), but
the two forms felt really different to me.
I would have to say in total they really do different
things for you, so it’s kind of hard to make
a strict comparison.
The Deep Healing is specifically designed and
potentized for *healing* so that form is the more
powerful one for *healing*, but I wouldn’t go so far as
to say it’s more powerful in general.
I do absolutely love the Deep Healing Qigong, though.
In a way, this form is kind of a “greatest hits album”
of the whole system in that it seems to contain some
of the most powerful elements from every phase.
Also, at least for me, while certain aspects of the
form strike me very powerfully right away; other
aspects that don’t seem as strong strike me
suddenly days later in a strong aftershock.
Another thing is that from my experience, the effects
you get from the form increase every time you do it!
In total, I really can’t say enough
positive things about it actually.
I highly recommend it.
StevenAugust 16, 2007 at 5:28 pm #23498
I have experience with both and personally prefer Primordial. But what Steven has said is true and I remember him telling us the story months ago about how Deep Healing helped him facilitate a profound change resulting in quitting smoking spontaneously. (Correct, Steven?)
I find Primordial more rewarding because of its universal ceremonial content. Drawing in all the different energies of my presence in creation together into the pot really gets my attention! But anything can be used ceremonially. I think you have to experiment to see which feels more right to your body.
Both of these practices are exponentially enhanced by practicing Kan and Li with them.
Best, AAugust 16, 2007 at 6:40 pm #23500August 16, 2007 at 6:41 pm #23502
I find the primordial more organic and subtly powerful, and the Deep Healing as more synthetic and noticeably powerful.
I prefer the organacism of the primordial, but the Deep Healing is a nice intro to the kan and li process. So, I definetly suggest you try out the Deep Healing.August 16, 2007 at 8:33 pm #23504
Thanks to Steven, Alexander, and voice for the information. I find what everyone said about Primordial to be right on target as I wouldn’t miss doing it daily. I will order deep healing and practice it on occasion as a more intense healing and as an intro to the kan and li process.August 17, 2007 at 5:03 am #23506
>I have experience with both and personally prefer Primordial.
Yeah, most people do; moreover, I find a lot of people
talk about the Primordial, but not the Deep Healing Qigong
for whatever reason.
I’m not sure why I like it more; I just do.
There is something that it has, the other forms
(Primordial included) doesn’t–maybe its the baby
internal alchemy; I’m not sure. One thing I do know, is
that it really agrees with me and I feel really attuned to
it–more so than anything else I’ve experienced thus far,
and get a deeply powerful response from it.
I don’t mind being the odd duck that
goes against the grain and champions DHQ 🙂
>But what Steven has said is true and I remember him telling us the story months ago >about how Deep Healing helped him facilitate a profound change resulting in quitting >smoking spontaneously. (Correct, Steven?)
Sort of. I did a solstice ceremony.
The DHQ was a component to the ceremony. In the ceremony, I expressed
intent to quit smoking. I spontaneously stopped a few days later.
I don’t feel it was the DHQ that was the key thing here;
the mechanism was the intent expressed during the potentized time of the solstice.
Words of warning on solstice requests to come shortly . . .
StevenAugust 17, 2007 at 5:06 am #23508
Be careful what you ask for during a solstice!
You might just get it! Moreover, it may have unexpected
consequences if you aren’t ready for it.
In my case, I thought it would be “a good idea” to
quit smoking–hence my request. My request was granted.
The problem was that the reason I had been smoking was
that I was using it as a self-correcting mechanism
for an internal problem.
When my request was granted, my self-correcting mechanism
was removed, and the internal problem had nothing to
keep it in check.
Initially, I thought I was getting a reward
by not having to go through withdrawal; what I
ended up getting was far worse.
Of course, “worse” is relative . . .
At least now I have recognized that an underlying
problem exists. Although dealing with said
problem is frustrating . . .
SAugust 17, 2007 at 10:15 am #23510
– that’s magic, what you did, with the selection of timing and intent. And yeah, if you choose to get a personal issue involved you always end up having to do work about it. But it does usually neatly highlight the work you have to do, like you say. jAugust 17, 2007 at 2:50 pm #23512
I concur with Jason on this big time. We can’t use magical means of any kind to preclude our growth process, only to assist it.
What happened Steven? Did you start eating a lot?
AAugust 18, 2007 at 12:35 am #23514
. . . I guess you picked up on the fact that I was
trying to dodge discussing it directly 🙂
It’s a long story, which I suppose I could share
if you are really interested. I’m kind of afraid of
triggering an avalanche though . . .
The problem with cultivation is that after you
wipe away all the little problems internally, you
are left with the big deep rooted major ones and
you can no longer choose to keep them buried!
SteveAugust 18, 2007 at 2:17 am #23516
“…you are left with the big deep rooted major ones and you can no longer choose to keep them buried!”
That’s where the juiciest, most rewarding work is, Steven. You seem to need encouraging to talk about it. If you want to, the space is here for you. Just say what you want to about it if you feel it will help.
AAugust 18, 2007 at 7:21 am #23518
There are two aspects to the story.
One is the initial external aspect which is only
moderately difficult to discuss due to certain
humilating helpless qualities; the other is
the internal aspect that I feel is the source
to the problem, which is much more difficult
to discuss because I have buried it within
myself for so long.
I’ll share the initial external aspect now, and
see where that leads.
So, on the solstice I expressed intent to
the lifeforce to quit smoking, and I potentized
it by invoking various ritual aspects and
ceremony. At the time, I didn’t consider
the meaning behind what I was asking, I just
thought it would be an opportunity to get
rid of a bad habit, and didn’t consider
anything deeper (which in retrospect I should have).
A few days later, I felt infused with some kind
of strange energy, I felt the habit dissolve.
It was like I was given a “get of habit with
no withdrawal” free card. Even though I hadn’t
been “trying” to quit, all desire was gone
and so was the habit.
Fast forward one month later. I started to
notice some uneasy feeling inside. It wasn’t
a withdrawal sensation, because I hadn’t had
withdrawal, but it was something different.
I was busy with classes so I didn’t pay it much
mind; just tried to ignore it.
Over the next month, it got worse. I noticed
that it was located in my intestinal region.
I started getting tremors, cramping, and vibrating
in my intestines and a lot of intestinal gas.
I tried to ignore it.
Enter the third month. It is now getting a lot
worse. I’m experiencing constant cramping, tremors,
intestinal gas, and pain coming from my intestinal
region. I start doing more qigong, since I’ve
noticed that I feel better when I do it. Unfortunately,
the symptoms only decrease slightly and then ramp
up again 45 minutes or so after I quit practicing.
I try to alter my food. I start trying to eat really
bland food. Nothing helps. Even plain white rice,
and still lots of intestinal cramping, gas, and pain.
A lot of pain actually. Everything I eat causes
intestinal pain. When I eat I’m in pain afterward,
when I don’t eat I’m still in pain but somewhat less.
The pain, cramping, and gas starts becoming unbearable.
I can’t do my work anymore; I can’t stand up for any
period of time to do qigong anymore. The pain has
extended into my lower back. I start coming home
and going right to bed–laying there in pain. I
expend my energy trying unsuccessfully to get my
intestines to relax.
I make the mistake of mentioning in a routine call
to my parents that I haven’t been feeling well.
They panic and want me to see a doctor. I say
no. I’ll just deal with it.
Over the next week, it continues to get worse.
I quit eating entirely. Any food just amplifies
the pain. I naturally start losing weight rapidly
and get even more weak causing me to spend
even more time in bed.
After a week of this, I decide to see the doctor.
I get a battery of tests. No infection or
instigating cause is found. All that is
found is the widespread inflammation, cramping, and
gas that I’m experiencing. The doctor tells me
that it is “a mechanical problem”. There is something
defective in the intestines and in the nerves to the
He tells me that very little can be done with people
who have conditions similar to mine. All they can
do is treat the symptoms so I can live normally.
Apparently the only drug that works to treat
my particular condition is one of a class of drugs
that they give people with Parkinson’s designed
to stop the tremors and cramping such people face.
The doctor tells me that it will work, but that it
has some nasty side effects. I go to the pharmacy
and buy the drug. On the vial, the drug has several
warning labels, along with an additional sheet of
paper with warnings: drowsiness, dizziness,
dry mouth, inability to sweat, inability to urinate,
risk of heat exhaustion.
These aren’t “maybe side-effects”, they actually are.
I decide not to take the drug.
I go online and try looking for alternatives to the drug.
There are none.
I start investigating more about the drug online.
Guess what I discover?
The drug is in the same chemical family as nicotine.
So I quit smoking to avoid certain health risks, and
now I’m supposed to replace it with a chemical cousin
with nastier immediate side-effects?
Boy I sure didn’t see that coming.
So why did I quit smoking again? I’ve smoked since
my early teens. Oh, yeah, I thought it’d be a good
Well I’m not taking the drug that’s for sure.
I decide to try to just tough it out.
I try “Activia” yogurt to see if that helps.
Another week of intense pain and almost no food, except
the yogurt I’m trying.
Friends and family grow concerned as I’m becoming
really thin and I’m spending most of my time
in bed dealing with the pain (by the way,
I found the hard way that taking a painkiller
was a big mistake). They start telling me
that maybe I should start smoking again–this
coming from family members who are normally against it.
After another week of misery, and I’m getting no help
from the Activia yogurt (their little “14-day” challenge
they advertise let me down).
I call my best friend back home and ask him what other
options I should try since the yogurt didn’t work.
He says “Steve, stop being such a stubborn dumbass and
just start smoking again”. I tell him that I quit
and that it’s unhealthy. He fires back “everything
in moderation; too much water’ll kill you”. “You’re
going to put yourself in the hospital because you’re
At this point I’m in so much pain, I figure what’s
I start smoking again.
Within two days, all intestinal symptoms are gone.
For the first time in months, there is no
pain or cramping. My appetite and weight come
In total, the problem was that my “request”
to the lifeforce was too superficial. I
was smoking for a reason; some part of me
needed it, and when it was suddenly removed
without warning, it threw my system into
chaos because there was nothing to fill the
The one thing that the experience did do, was
that it pointed out to me that I don’t really
know myself very well. I thought that I did,
but apparently I wasn’t listening. Well, it
was time to start.
My focus shifted to a more directed study
of what my being was trying to communicate.
Why don’t my intestines function properly?
What is causing the malfunction in the first place?
I believe I’ve discovered the source of the problem.
There is a deep internal problem that I’ve tried
to ignore and not face. It feels like I’ve buried
it deep inside and it took residency in my
intestines. There it has taken root and has
been festering. Unchecked, it claws at my
intestines like a wild animal. The smoking
is just a bandage that acts like a hammer on
the wild animal’s head via the lung-large intestine
connection. It keeps it from acting up, but
it’s only dealing with the symptoms. The root
problem that is the source is buried deep within.
Unfortunately I buried said issue, because I
didn’t want to deal with it. It was a
“I’ll ignore it, and hope it goes away” issue.
Apparently that didn’t work.
It found a home deep within.
Now I have 3 choices.
I can continue to ignore it, and smoke to mask it;
I can continue to ignore it, and deal with intestinal pain;
Or I can address it directly, and deal with it.
Part of me says, “eh, just smoke and ignore it instead.”
Unfortunately/fortunately I’m realizing that
neither of the first two paths are good ones.
I’m trying to walk the third road now, but
it’s unpleasant. I wish that I didn’t have to
deal with it, but the lifeforce isn’t really giving
me much choice.
I suppose that the one “good” thing that the
solstice event did was it demonstrated to me
that I need to deal with this issue and
I was looking for an easy solution.
What I’m getting is an actual solution, that ain’t easy.
Well, that was probably WAY more information than
you cared to hear about, but there it is.
The actual underlying deep rooted issue (which
has nothing to do with smoking) is another matter
entirely, and much more difficult to discuss.
At this point, I’ll think I’ll pause for the
time being, as the rabbit hole is getting too dark.
SAugust 18, 2007 at 10:17 am #23520
… 1st man don’t do any beating yourself over the head, you know all this is just an experiment and you had no way of knowing what would be triggered.
2ndly I have some similar issues and I’m a smoker myself. I didn’t get quite the level of pain you got when I quit once (for about 8 years!) but I totally know the cramping thing and it’s part of a wider issue that alot of people have got.
3rd you were ABSOLUTELY RIGHT not to take those pills IMHO. 🙂
4th: You can work on healing the cramps and the underlying issues even whilst you are still smoking if you want.
5th: I would never share anything like this in a group and it’s not necessary to do it if you don’t want to, but absolute kudos if you do want to. One of the reasons I wouldn’t on this particular issue is that group pressure usually has a role in smoking and also in stopping smoking, when what you really want is personal empowerment.
That’s all I can think of, but there’s masses to discover in these things and those issues can be multiple and complex, so don’t worry about rushing through it. Mind you I’m lucky because since Gandalf appeared on the scene magicians are practically expected to smoke. In other groups of people it’s not considered quite so de rigeur. But keep thinking of it all as an experiment or set of experiments, that’s my advice.
best jAugust 18, 2007 at 10:19 am #23522
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