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… further to conversations occurring below, I am just wanting to give in a spirit of cultural sharing (aaahh! ^_^) some kundalini-related things.
I am getting kundalini effects partly as a result of the work taught here partly other things. Anyhoo I think Robert Bruce is right – the serpent twists itself around the central channel. I am starting to feeling this channel clearer and clearer. The serpent twisting itself around the staff is a well known symbol. I have had a partial raising in the past and I can see what happened more clearly now than at the time. Taken alongside the Crowley ‘Holy Guardian Angel’ ritual, can’t remember the words exactly, but something like ‘Arise my serpent and coil yourself around my secret soul’ – it’s pretty obvious anyhow.
What I have also confirmed from Bruce is that the central channel is in fact what Bardon would have called a ‘volt’, that is, the inside of it feels electric (yang?) whilst the outside feels magnetic (yin?).
I’d like to give also a couple of interesting facts from Bruce which unfortunately I just cannot sense myself yet. Perhaps someone else has noticed them or can give some info or something will be sparked off.
Bruce says that the outer structure of the central channel *rotates*, and furthermore, that it sometimes rotates clockwise and sometimes anticlockwise. He says, ‘I have observed rotational changes happening at various intervals – 10 to 60 minutes or more’. It varies according to the person and what they are doing.
He relates this also to the legs alternating in dominance of which brings up most earth energy. Now I seem to remember somebody on here once saying that there was a rhythm like that in the legs, can anyone remember?
He says also that there is a ‘short period of turbulence’ at the changeover from one leg’s dominant period to another, which also (he *thinks*!) reverses the central channel motion. I instantly think of those periods in people’s day when they are naturally spacey and which NLP has a name for that I just can’t recall at the moment, even though one of my fave mages, Jan Fries, talks about it alot. What are those times called again??? 🙂
The other thing it reminds me of is pranayama breathing in alternate nostrils.
The final thought I have is that Taoism seems to often consider yang to be on the left, whereas magic considers electric to be on the right. I wonder if they are both right at different times.
Does anyone recognize any of this? Please forgive the speculative nature of it all! j
Depending on the cycle of your black hole you are resonating with the yin yang aspect can flip. When I first was doing fusion I would get frustrated that my water pearl was flipping with my fire pearl. All that was happening is that my shen naturaly wanted to reverse flow. As Michael simply put “Roadsigns are there for your safety, but when the driving conditions and your skill are sufficient, you can safely speed to get to where you are going more quickly.” THere are diferent levels a linear, one foot at a time, or the deeper non linear yin yuan yang instantly. It just depends what level of manifestation you wish to talk about the more nonlinear the harder it will be to pin things down consciously.
Also it is very interesting to get feed back from dominate physical patters favoring a leg, just noticing if one side is easier to ground, if your legs turn in to much or out to much.
… please remember that I don’t get the ‘black hole’ part because I am not doing fusion etc. yet. Can you tell me what role the central channel plays in this? All the rest of what you say, as in moving toward the instantaneous production of yuan without thoughts etc. is something I know well and I’m planning to write about it on my blog in a few posts’ time. But it would be nice to know what is really the relationship of the central channel to the low tan tien, I cannot ‘feel’ this yet myself at all. j
THe “black” hole thing was me just having a little fun. The post natal mind needs a interface because it can not directly grasp or see the “black” hole or the shen non linear state since they operate in ever present mode. The life force does a amazing job translating non linear modes in to some thing the post natal mind can get. The life force also reveals new methods of interface. It is a great way to give linear creative beings a simple wheel to drive non linear creative action.. The symbolism of that whole area(hips sexual center) is a lesson in of its self. When talking about the linear nature of the dan tien at the level of yuan symbolicly I would acociate it with yuan jing. “Spirituality is the fragrance of nature.” I had ounce a flower grow up my center channel. I hope my perspective helped.
Mind if I jump in here?
“The final thought I have is that Taoism seems to often consider yang to be on the left, whereas magic considers electric to be on the right. I wonder if they are both right at different times.”
Hi Jason,
I have not yet heard otherwise that all of daoism names the left as solar/yang and the right as lunar/yin. (Acupuncurists, to the best of my knowledge, are all taught that the left is your father’s side, the right your mother’s.) But this is how the INTERNAL energy flows whereas the external seems to be the polar opposite, as with males having a feminine core and v.v. for females, and, as such, that is what most people believe and act on.
I suppose it is possible for them to switch back and forth but don’t know for sure.
This is how I understand the channels and if anyone sees an error here or can extrapolate I would appreciate knowing…
The central channel is sometimes taught to be the spine, as in the hindu and some daoist stuff (see Dr. Yang Jwing Ming of Boston). But to “us” the spine is in the back and therefore part of the fire channel. “Our” central channel is in the center of the body from bai hui/crown point to hui yin/perineum point.
The central channel makes all the other channels and systems work; everything follows from it starting with the left and right thrusting channels which are yang and yin respectively. The central channel holds the “space” (neutral/yuan chi) so that the polarities of yang and yin chi can operate without “losing it”. All three dantians are connected to this triad which allows them to be.
So, the central channel would be “the one”, the left and right channels would be the yang and yin that follow making “the two” so that there are then “the three” and from there the five phases and the ten thousand things take shape.
So, while the central channel is the unconditioned energy, the lower dantian is the jing presence, the earth center, that is created so we can be “down here”. The upper dantian is the communication center with the divine and the middle one is the communication center between us beings (or “becomings” as Michael says).
How’s that?
-A… but begs so many questions!!!! Not that I need all of them answering of course.
>>I have not yet heard otherwise that all of daoism names the left as solar/yang and the right as lunar/yin.<>But this is how the INTERNAL energy flows whereas the external seems to be the polar opposite, as with males having a feminine core and v.v. for females, and, as such, that is what most people believe and act on.<>The central channel is sometimes taught to be the spine, as in the hindu and some daoist stuff (see Dr. Yang Jwing Ming of Boston). But to “us” the spine is in the back and therefore part of the fire channel. “Our” central channel is in the center of the body from bai hui/crown point to hui yin/perineum point.<>The central channel makes all the other channels and systems work; everything follows from it starting with the left and right thrusting channels which are yang and yin respectively.<>The central channel holds the “space” (neutral/yuan chi) so that the polarities of yang and yin chi can operate without “losing it”. All three dantians are connected to this triad which allows them to be.<<
So ok… if you drew a diagram which showed *only* the central channel plus the three tan tiens, I am trying to work out what it would look like and in particular, seeing the central channel as a big column, obviously the heart tan tien is in the middle of it ok? So is the central channel at the bottom in taoist terms *disappearing into* the lower tan tien, or is the central channel *continuing past* the lower tan tien?
Sorry to make a fuss but essentially this is what I'm so interested in, I don't need to know what the channels are supposed to be 'for' just how you as a taoist, or any other taoist, experiences them in terms of their position and yinness/yangness. The central channel is definitely yang on the inside and yin on the outside, this is what holds it together. But for taoist practices it may not be important – indeed for my practices it may not be important! It IS true though… more to say more to think about more to try out here…
Thanks for all this! j
Patently. I have never seen a reference to the contrary in the Daoist orb.
Tidbit for your consideration: The moon reflects only 7% of the light that hits it from the Sun because its surface is very very black.
I have no idea what you mean by that.
Absolutely.
I have his book on embryonic breathing which is an alchemical text. His methods and premises are very different than what is practiced here- Mountain Daoism. He does not ever mention the smile, uses the spine as the central channel, and considers the solar plexus to be the middle dantian. I do not have a really good feeling about his approach.
In my experience that IS what they say and how they operate. It’s a fire system, remember?
Yes. The left side of the body is yang, the right yin; the top half is yang, the bottom yin; the back is yang, the front yin.
The dantians *emanate from* the center which is unconditioned, meaning not polarized. The central energy, yuan chi, does not have yin and yang inside it. Yin and yang are created from it and are held in place by it. The center is infinite above and below and connects dimensionally, that is vibration-wise, through all “places” in us and the “outside” world of planets, sun and other stars. That is, the center goes through it ALL.
As I understand it mentally and experience it energetically, that is not true. If that is what you are feeling then you are not in the central channel because it is neutral. It is the place to go to resolve the discord between the polarities by its unconditionedness.
It is most important because without the neutrality of the center, the yuan chi, nothing would get transmuted in the true sense.
Patently. I have never seen a reference to the contrary in the Daoist orb.
Tidbit for your consideration: The moon reflects only 7% of the light that hits it from the Sun because its surface is very very black.
I have no idea what you mean by that.
Absolutely.
I have his book on embryonic breathing which is an alchemical text. His methods and premises are very different than what is practiced here- Mountain Daoism. He does not ever mention the smile, uses the spine as the central channel, and considers the solar plexus to be the middle dantian. I do not have a really good feeling about his approach.
In my experience that IS what they say and how they operate. It’s a fire system, remember?
Yes. The left side of the body is yang, the right yin; the top half is yang, the bottom yin; the back is yang, the front yin.
The dantians *emanate from* the center which is unconditioned, meaning not polarized. The central energy, yuan chi, does not have yin and yang inside it. Yin and yang are created from it and are held in place by it. The center is infinite above and below and connects dimensionally, that is vibration-wise, through all “places” in us and the “outside” world of planets, sun and other stars. That is, the center goes through it ALL.
As I understand it mentally and experience it energetically, that is not true. If that is what you are feeling then you are not in the central channel because it is neutral. It is the place to go to resolve the discord between the polarities by its unconditionedness.
It is most important because without the neutrality of the center, the yuan chi, nothing would get transmuted in the true sense.
Jason, I don’t know why, but my message did not go through either time as I wrote it. It seems to be missing the quotes from your text which I was answering. I will see if I can recreate the thing now..
“OK so hold on, taoists consider solar is yang and lunar is yin then?”
Patently. I have never seen a reference to the contrary in the Daoist orb.
“At least we can settle that one! They are not always considered that way by any means.”
Tidbit for your consideration: The moon reflects only 7% of the light that hits it from the Sun because its surface is very very black.
“OK you know I won’t even comment.”
I have no idea what you mean by that.
“I don’t think anyone believes the central channel *is* the spine do they???”
Absolutely.
“but you say Jwing-Ming really still thinks that!!!??? OK if you say so. What it means is he has not found the channel itself.”
I have his book on embryonic breathing which is an alchemical text. His methods and premises are very different than what is practiced here- Mountain Daoism. He does not ever mention the smile, uses the spine as the central channel, and considers the solar plexus to be the middle dantian. I do not have a really good feeling about his approach.
“I can assure you actual Hindu yogis would never ever say the central channel was the spine!”
In my experience that IS what they say and how they operate. It’s a fire system, remember?
“So just to be absolutely sure, when you say the left channel is yang you are saying that: from the point of view of me, sitting in my body, facing forward, in this position the channel to my *left* is said to be yang, the channel to my *right* is said to be yin, by taoists. Is that right?”
Yes. The left side of the body is yang, the right yin; the top half is yang, the bottom yin; the back is yang, the front yin.
“So is the central channel at the bottom in taoist terms *disappearing into* the lower tan tien, or is the central channel *continuing past* the lower tan tien?”
The dantians *emanate from* the center which is unconditioned, meaning not polarized. The central energy, yuan chi, does not have yin and yang inside it. Yin and yang are created from it and are held in place by it. The center is infinite above and below and connects dimensionally, that is vibration-wise, through all “places” in us and the “outside” world of planets, sun and other stars. That is, the center goes through it ALL.
“The central channel is definitely yang on the inside and yin on the outside, this is what holds it together”
As I understand it mentally and experience it energetically, that is not true. If that is what you are feeling then you are not in the central channel because it is neutral. It is the place to go to resolve the discord between the polarities by its unconditionedness.
“But for taoist practices it may not be important – indeed for my practices it may not be important!”
It is most important because without the neutrality of the center, the yuan chi, nothing would get transmuted in the true sense.
>>”OK so hold on, taoists consider solar is yang and lunar is yin then?”
Patently. I have never seen a reference to the contrary in the Daoist orb.
“At least we can settle that one! They are not always considered that way by any means.”
Tidbit for your consideration: The moon reflects only 7% of the light that hits it from the Sun because its surface is very very black.<>”OK you know I won’t even comment.”
I have no idea what you mean by that.<>I have his book on embryonic breathing which is an alchemical text. His methods and premises are very different than what is practiced here- Mountain Daoism. He does not ever mention the smile, uses the spine as the central channel, and considers the solar plexus to be the middle dantian. I do not have a really good feeling about his approach.<>”I can assure you actual Hindu yogis would never ever say the central channel was the spine!”
In my experience that IS what they say and how they operate. It’s a fire system, remember?<>Yes. The left side of the body is yang, the right yin; the top half is yang, the bottom yin; the back is yang, the front yin.<>”The central channel is definitely yang on the inside and yin on the outside, this is what holds it together”
As I understand it mentally and experience it energetically, that is not true. If that is what you are feeling then you are not in the central channel because it is neutral. It is the place to go to resolve the discord between the polarities by its unconditionedness.<>”But for taoist practices it may not be important – indeed for my practices it may not be important!”
It is most important because without the neutrality of the center, the yuan chi, nothing would get transmuted in the true sense.<<
I absolutely agree that without neutrality the central channel will not be contactable and will not activate. You must understand what I am saying is that it is electric on the inside and magnetic on the inside. This means that overall it is *precisely* neutral in itself. Please don't start telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about! I have been investigating this for weeks and for sure I am correct, and then I am getting this from Robert Bruce as well who equally has been feeling it alot longer, from his new book. It was an exciting confirmation for me, and believe me it does not disturb in any way that the *role* of the channel is neutral. It has nothing to do with that.
All I'm trying to do is establish what is felt by taoists, I'm not saying anyone is right nor wrong. I wish you wouldn't impune my own senses and research and would take it as just something interesting that I feel this and that others do, or that there are some who consider sun as feminine etc. Does it all have to be by the book? I'm only giving you what I absolutely know from myself.
There may be some yogis, for example, who tell people the spine is the central channel. I suppose they may do it to simplify for people? For certain when kundalini comes for example the snake wraps itself in 3 1/2 twists *around the central channel* it can't go around the spine! The whole point is that it is the basis of the nervous system bonding with completely neutral centre.
I regret the tone this conversation is taking because I am exploring by myself which I think is valuable. So I am afraid I am just saying what I find and if that is not what I'm 'supposed to find' I couldn't care less! Anyone who says the central channel is the spine is wrong, and anyone who says it has an inherent polarity is also wrong – I think you agree with me. You have to understand I never said anything to the contrary and I think you are too quick to judge what I'm saying.
j
What we think of as the spine is what we feel on our backs… but the main ‘bulk’ of the spine is actually on the inside and phisiologically, that internal bulky bit could easily be considered as the ‘core’ of the body…
Ofcourse the core channel does not necessarily have a physical basis, but if it did, it *could* be considered as the spine (imo).
I also find the core to be kind of ‘non-local’ – i.e. it’s everywhere, but mapping it internally it’s definately the core bit of the body – for me it’s like a pillar of light – it goes from the top of the skull to the perineum… now if I try to feel whether the channel starts and ends at these points I get that ‘non local’ feeling – my body tells me to stop intelectualising it too much, because in reality the core doesn’t have dimensionality…
Have a look through http://www.alchemicaltaoism.com – there is stuff on all the channels there. Keith, the webmaster, recomends “The Six Yogas of Naropa: Tsongkhapa’s Commentary by Glenn H. Mullin” as the best source on the core channel… it’s Tibetan in origin, but apparently indistinguishable from the Taoist model…
>>I also find the core to be kind of ‘non-local’ – i.e. it’s everywhere, but mapping it internally it’s definately the core bit of the body – for me it’s like a pillar of light – it goes from the top of the skull to the perineum…<>now if I try to feel whether the channel starts and ends at these points I get that ‘non local’ feeling – my body tells me to stop intelectualising it too much, because in reality the core doesn’t have dimensionality…<<
Oh I think it does have dimensonality but not only *three* if you see what I mean. Or better to say, it has dimensonalit*ies* plural. But I know what you are saying, when you follow it past the body you are in another scale length, so you need to go non-linear and of course the normal mind is going huh?
So you hadn't heard have you of those periods of the day when people are naturally spacey and semi-tranced? I was trying to remember it, thought it was an NLP thing I found somewhere, if I remember the periodicity was similar to what Bruce says is the rotational change in the core channel… I see I will have to look it up… bloody magicians never give their books proper indexes is the problem!
🙂
Keep meaning to read Naropa so I will do that.
thanks for this j
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