September 1, 2008 at 11:31 am #29010
In line with wendys book discussion and her us of the word yes(I assume this comes from Eckhart) I bring up Eckhart Tolle.
I have recently listened(audio books are the shizzy nizzy) through most of his old book, and have watched some of his video clips. http://www.youtube.com/user/EckhartTeachings , http://www.youtube.com/user/lef1111 .
I was guided to look into him, I was also intersted in understanding his language as he is now very popular. I love that he uses space insted of emptyness! I have felt a shift in his own chi field from the time of his book to today. I felt strong sharp piercing chi in the head from his book, able to cut through strong (really weak) minded adapts he had in his audiances over the years. He definitly does not come from the tradition of talking does not cook the rice. It is inner smile goes to the masses basicaly, but I would say with a lean tword yang aspect of the Alchemical path. Which I feel fits nicly in with the larger female crowd he is reaching, as well as the west in general. I think it is a nice first & last step. It is intersting to hear his story, it reminded me of a time Michael told us about some one he new that he believed to be what he called a jump in(I think thats what he called it)in which a soul does not want to go through the whole birthing process and will jump in when another is ready to go. Eckhart was suicidal and heavly depressed and one day he just changed and everything became new his house people he new ect. It is just a guess. It could also be that he went so far the other way that he was way more willing to let it all go. I find those that have hit rock bottum, and are weak, have more likly hood of such quick and spontanious transformation. “Strong” men especialy have a hard time with surrendering.
In listening to is book I was reminded of a phrase the heart follows the mind. I was thinking of the yi as the mind and the other chi phases as the heart, and this being the meaning of that phrase.September 1, 2008 at 11:36 pm #29011
He preachs about body mystisism so I see a growing demand for Qigong and the body mysticism of the Healign Tao. It is funny that like western spiritual teachers before him, he seems ignorant of Taoist Alchemy one of the last preserved body mystical traditions in the world. It is like there has been a wall there, mabe now the silk road will open back up. I do not think they will reinvent the wheel in the west but take the wheel from china and adapt it to the west.September 2, 2008 at 8:04 am #29013
I applaud your missionary zeal in wanting to spread the word of the healing tao, but do you have to found it on factual inaccuracy?
You must be well aware of the many living western traditions that are body-centred. The idea that taoists and healing taoists in particular have some kind of monopoly on the spiritualization of the body is completely laughable. There is no need for anything to be taken exclusively from China either. It is one system amongst many.
But there we are, I suppose if you are preaching to the converted you can say what you like. I used to feel that it was far better when all cultures were treated equally on this forum… still what can I do? Of course Tolle is ignorant, he is ignorant even of the body mysticism of Maharshi whom he so admires, let alone that of native americans, celts, jews, and muslims. He is basically a Hindu and his idea of spirituality is Krishnamurti. He claims to have a deep understand of the tao te ching!
Mind you, to say the actual Hindus (as opposed to neo-hindu enlightenment merchants) have no body mysticism would be equally absurd. Where does it all end, if you begin with such broad statements?
NNSeptember 2, 2008 at 10:25 am #29015
I feel like you forget me sometimes like I become this thing that abused you some how. It is not fair, nor polite. I am not on a mission(military based term by the way), but I do see a coming demand. I do not care what vehical one uses to get home, I am just happy to see you. Your anger has blinded you to words like “one of” not “the last”. Yes I feel Taosit alchemy is the most advance when it comes to the the body/energy body and very practical. It also translates well with its language not based in idol figures. I do feel the alchemical tradtions here in the west have been hurt by rascism, mass killing, as well as the domminance of science and religion. The silk road was not one way, but I feel the world is weakend by not having that exchange with china and the tradtitions they preserved. It is like the sun and moon.
As for generalizations 🙂
“He is basically a Hindu and his idea of spirituality is Krishnamurti”
It would be intersting to find out that there was some “order of the rising sun” behind is sucess.September 2, 2008 at 11:07 am #29017
>>I feel like you forget me sometimes like I become this thing that abused you some how.>Yes I feel Taosit alchemy is the most advance when it comes to the the body/energy body<<
And what happens if I disagree?
I think you're wrong. Is that ok with you? I think there are other systems very different but just as advanced in exactly this respect. Maybe you would prefer otherwise but it is just true. If you want examples I will provide them and you can judge for yourself. I think you are talking rather too loosely about something rather important.
I certainly believe an exchange between the west and China is a very valuable prospect. For one thing, I'm here. For another, my wife is Chinese! 🙂 But the exchange goes both ways and it is important that both sides can learn from each other, not claim some kind of bogus superiority as a bargaining chip – for what?
How many people on here make a deliberate practice of hanging out with people who believe things different from them?
No-one can accuse me of not having investigated the healing tao, it wasn't suitable for me though, whereas more western techniques are. Is that ok with you? No-one also can ever accuse me of having maintained the superiority of any system, even though Healing Taoers sometimes become threatened by my simple insistence that everyone be treated with respect (why?) and I have received "10,000 slaps in the face" for so doing!
There are many many streams of 'body mysticism' in the west, and the taoist one is only one of them – it's an important one, but there are others just as important. One can't get around it Julian. It is true, and frankly, I prefer things that way. Don't you?September 2, 2008 at 2:47 pm #29019
“I think you’re wrong. Is that ok with you?”
That’s fine I was just clarifying my point I felt you missed.
“I think you are talking rather too loosely about something rather important.”
I do not feel seriuousness is a virtue.
“But the exchange goes both ways and it is important that both sides can learn from each other, not claim some kind of bogus superiority as a bargaining chip – for what?”
It does go both ways, that why I stated it does in my post above ***The silk road was not one way***, but again you seem to be blinded by anger and forget your self, and now you are lashing out at people here my self included, people that obviously love and search out beauty in all its forms, sufi, celtic, ect but wish to do it free of religious language and dogma, and choose to put it in a spiritual science context. Michael him self openly admits to adding Atlantean meditations to his practice.
“No-one can accuse me of not having investigated the Healing Tao, it wasn’t suitable for me though, whereas more western techniques are. Is that ok with you?”
As stated above, but again you are pulled away from reason and peace by anger.
****I do not care what vehicle one uses to get home, I am just happy to see you.***
“How many people on here make a deliberate practice of hanging out with people who believe things different from them?”
What a silly ugly statement, why let anger make you think so little of such beautiful people like Wendy, Steven, Singing Ocean, Michael Winn. Why let anger betray your beauty like this?
You are loved and welcomed to your opinion I was just clarifying mine. If you would like to change my opinion and understanding with your perspective please present me with your deep wisdom, and info on this subject, I am open to change. But this emotion dump, betrays your beauty.September 2, 2008 at 6:52 pm #29021
Dog my friend please could you clarify for me exactly what you are *actually* saying.
Do you or do you not believe what you implied above, that the west has no real energy work that is body based left? And on what do you base that opinion please?
Do you or do you not believe what you said above, that the healing tao is most advanced body-based energy work? And on what do you base that opinion please?
The rest of what you said:
>>I do not feel seriuousness is a virtue.<>I stated it does in my post above ***The silk road was not one way***, but again you seem to be blinded by anger and forget your self<>”How many people on here make a deliberate practice of hanging out with people who believe things different from them?”
What a silly ugly statement<>people that obviously love and search out beauty in all its forms, sufi, celtic, ect but wish to do it free of religious language and dogma, and choose to put it in a spiritual science context<<
Exactly what I do too. How 'scientific' is it to make factually incorrect statements though?
Please do remember Dog, it wasn't me that brought up the idea of 'what is the best body-based energy work', it was you! I don't believe in the concept of 'most advanced', but I do believe that what is out there needs careful sifting because it all has value.
If we simply take only the most obvious example of a western body-based energy work: by step three (out of ten) in Bardon's Hermetics you have to be able to locate and feel and breathe energy through not only every organ but every single tissue in body. There's alot more to it obviously but where it ends up in Kabbalah is, every single organ having a letter and a colour and breathing and an action and a musical tone. And when this is set up you then do combinations of letters.
It's very advanced Dog! And it's western. Does it really matter if it's more advanced than healing tao? The point is this is the tip of the iceberg. For example those very same letters have been found in a stone circle in Scotland – one letter per stone. This means that the Druids had these same letters, and this again is a totally body-based energy work. We call it 'Kabbalah' but it's alot wider than that.
Where did Bardon get his kabbalah? From Sepher Yetzirah. So that's at least 2,000 years old. And it's pretty clear the Hebrews originally got that knowledge from Egypt and Greece. And by the way there are still jews who use that system, so that's another living energy work.
So we are talking about a highly advanced body-based energy work which can only be regarded as a spiritual science, because it crosses no fewer than four very disparate western religions.
And that's just one example, and this is just something that is public knowledge (nowadays), as you know very well there is plenty that is still secret everywhere, including China.
Please simply observe, never once do I say, this system is better, that system is better! All I ask is, if people are going to make statements about other systems, they should be correct statements.September 3, 2008 at 2:44 am #29023
I will be happy to clarify my statement. I am not great at traslating my experience or perspective into writen word, I much more preffer the intimacy of face to face, so I accept that I will have to clarify often. Alchemy east or west is very similar and the older you go the more silimiar they become. I was comminting on qigong and the energy body map, preseved in china. So not work done in the body but work done with the body and a understanding of the energy body. So I guess I was saying Qigong is energy work at its best. I think all traditions would be enhanced by Qigong. Which I am sure was cooked up by interaction with western, pan asian and cosmic alchemists alike.
http://www.emfbalancingtechnique.com/ this is a case of people putting qigong to work to empower there tradition.
“And that’s just one example, and this is just something that is public knowledge (nowadays), as you know very well there is plenty that is still secret everywhere, including China.”
I do exspect ancient and exciting Qigong forms to pop up as well as new ones to be developed. I am in love with a new form I learn while in China.
I would love to know more about Frnaz Bardon and what makes his system different then say The Whitebrotherhood stuff, and if his lineage is still around or if it is in books?
Good nightSeptember 3, 2008 at 6:45 am #29025
Over the time I’ve been visiting this site you (and one other person actually, but the other one is no longer here) have often made statements that I believed were simply wrong, and misleading to any inexperienced person who might read them. Considering this a public forum I think it’s important to note this. Perhaps if you don’t think seriousness is important you don’t think responsibility is so either, but I feel otherwise.
This seems to be my week to go back over old ground, what with trying to understand Wendy’s approach to popular love and all, and now I see you still doing the same thing. Of course I don’t want to go back over everything you’ve ever said, but in this case, I decided to sift it to the bottom.
As expected there is no real substance to what you said. This is ok, but I just wanted it recognized. There is a good deal of difference between your statements are mine, I do make certain that what I say is absolutely factually true to the best of my ability, and I do consider that to be important. I realize you don’t ‘take seriousness seriously’, so this won’t matter to you, but there was a time when I thought quite hard about all those things you said; I really tried to work out how you could possibly think they were true. In other words, I believed you meant them seriously.
I also feel that when you say things like:
“Alchemy east or west is very similar and the older you go the more silimiar they become”
“I think all traditions would be enhanced by Qigong. Which I am sure was cooked up by interaction with western, pan asian and cosmic alchemists alike.”
… etc., there is no particular reason to feel these statements have a solid basis in fact either. So I don’t take them seriously, especially since the person making them feels seriousness is so problematic. I won’t ask you yet again what is the basis for those statements.
Let the forum newcomer beware of taking things seriously which are said by people who do not believe in speaking seriously. I wish I had been.
As it happens you are 100% correct about Tolle, in fact there is a lot more to that story than you may realize. There is a debate going on that was started by Robert Bruce (another western energy system). It’s not in the public eye at the moment though and maybe it will never be.
That’s my last word here for a while I guess.September 3, 2008 at 10:34 am #29027
I am responcible for my self thats why I am never a victum. I also do know who I talk with, because I feel who I am. It is the concept of namaste, or the concept of politeness in muslim culture. I thank you for giving me a wonderful oppertunity to explore and clarify.
I have this psoted on my myspace page, As I felt it was one beautifuly put but also because it was about taking repsoncibilty.
“The bee is a symbol of the initiate, who has learnt to transform, sublimate and illuminate everything within himself for the preparation of honey. The beehive is within him, and the honey is all the purest and most subtle elements that radiate from his whole being: his emanations. All beings are called to seek out and extract a quintessence from themselves, so as to transform it into honey. To do this they must work with their mind, heart and will, for it is thanks to these instruments that they can realize everything in their inner still. This is also true alchemy. The true alchemist has learnt one thing: how to become a bee and extract all that is best from nature and, above all, from human beings. He looks at them and speaks to them, and each one is a flower whose nectar he will collect in order to prepare honey.” Omraam Mikhaël AïvanhovSeptember 3, 2008 at 10:42 am #29029
To me and advance in alchemy is simplicity this is why the begining is the end, Alchemical shapes and breathing patterns are let go and one surrenders deeply to the core smiling from here and transforming effortlessy. More complexity is functional but not more advance aka powerful when it comes to tranformation, or experience of the life force. Alchemimical transformation is at a simple level but a powerful level, one of effortless change. Again how one gets to that core home, I could care less, spontaneous to ritual.September 3, 2008 at 12:16 pm #29031
Bardon system is a most empowering system.
it is specific in that it seems that it focuses on developing seers of first generation.
heavily using rituals.
as chi kung is ritual,
there is little need for differentiation.
however some taoist do emphasize darkness cultivation
which bardon seems not to.
as such it seems difference in gravity between bardon and ht.
yet bardon did not write down all the books.
so many is open.
one things is very clear. his system understands silence. there is no psychic release in teaching.
tao cannot be taught. as such all speak is polarity. and hence word is original sin. if ht has a mission, it also has an original sin.
after enough time discussion is irrelevant. enough of hot air. it finishes with earth. silence and action. actions speak.September 3, 2008 at 4:38 pm #29033
You can try feeling this for your self. But every time I feel serious about a situation I seem to lose my center. Life is not longer enjoyable, but when I am centerd and connected life is lived with enjoyment, I eat because I enjoy eating ect. When reading the Dao Dejing, A phraze came to me “live in the vally but visit the mountains”. “or live simply but enjoy complexity”.September 3, 2008 at 4:53 pm #29035
Alchemy does not change change, but the time it takes. I honnor the vale, the deases I have had in the past, and the seriousness. All things the life force uses to guide me home. But I would not choose to stay in that embalance.September 6, 2008 at 1:08 am #29037
Egypt was an attempt to rebuild atlantis. The difference between certain types of western and daoist alchemy is that the western approach uses will to the extreme, and can sometimes spill over into manipulation. Excess use of will sometimes overrides the cultivation of virtue (“de”). Virtue is the strength of daoist cultivation. Both seek balance and the neutral center.
If the goal is not cultivation of neutral force, then the result can be different. all paths do not necessarily lead to the same place. Atlantean methods are the root of western methods and are definitely a valid approach. Our challenge now is to integrate the two.
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