May 4, 2006 at 3:30 pm #13510
To continue the on-line soap opera of debate on emptiness here’s a quote by H. H. Dalai Lama to throw into the mix (it’s doing the rounds on some buddhist discussion boards). Confused? You will be! Well I am anyway.
“It is important to clarify that we are not speaking of emptiness as
some sort of absolute strata of reality, akin to, say, the ancient
Indian concept of Brahman, which is conceived to be an underlying
absolute reality from which the illusory world of multiplicity
emerges. Emptiness is not a core reality, lying somewhere at the
heart of the universe, from which the diversity of phenomena
Emptiness can only be conceived of in relation to individual things
and events. For example, when we speak of emptiness of a form, we
are talking about the absolute reality of that form, the fact that
it is devoid of intrinsic existence. That emptiness is the
ultimate nature of that form. Emptiness exists only as a quality of
a particular phenomena; emptiness does not exist separately and
independently of particular phenomena.
Furthermore, since emptiness can only be understood as ultimate
reality in relation to individual phenomena, individual things and
events, when an individual phenomenon ceases to exist, the
emptiness of that phenomenon will also cease to exist. So, although
emptiness is not itself the product of causes and conditions, when
a basis for identifying emptiness no longer exists, the emptiness of
that thing also ceases to exist.”
HH Dalai lama, Essence of the Heart Sutra pp.117-118 (from
chapter 10, Developing an Unmistaken View of Reality)
Best to everyone,
RexMay 5, 2006 at 12:44 am #13511
I’m glad that you wish to continue the soap opera between Bagua, Michael and I, and kinda Singing Ocean, Max, and perhaps a few others! I think Bagua has left the building!
I think that this peice is indicating the emptiness that is inherent in all things, not Wu Ji. Of course, Wu Ji is supreme unknown. Because when saying that it is not the Brahman or Godhead or core of the universe, it is shown that it is not Wu Ji.
It’s similar to Bagua’s notion of emptiness, that it is the absolute part of the form or Bagua’s absolute state in reality, ie. living in the now. While, HealingDao’s prespective is that physical reality exists because of wuxing, the five processes. And so it is a process rather than an absolute state as Singing Ocean said.
Let’s see where this takes us for now,
FajinMay 5, 2006 at 3:43 am #13513
Thanks for the Dalai Lama quote on Emptiness as a quality of Existence, rather than an absolute state within a cosmology built around Emptiness.
I believe this is similar to Lao Tzu’s position on the utility of the empty space at the center of the wheel.
Without the spokes, that empty space in the center does not exist. So its a functional relationship.
From this perspective, if you are doing an emptying the xin/heart mind practice, you are simultaneously embracing all the spokes of the wheel, seeking a neutral point from which to merge with their yin-yang and five phase process.
And so the Wheel keeps turning, and always will.
Tao as unstoppable process,
MichaelMay 5, 2006 at 4:08 am #13515
this also has applications in internal alchemy. if u do a “yin” practice, to see what the shen want to do, instead of directing the practice with the mind, you approach it from the neutral or empty space. same with bone breathing or fusion. you can let it happen, or you direct the practice based on intellectuall learing and applicatioon of techniques. both are useful, and both teach you different things.May 5, 2006 at 6:00 pm #13517
>>From this perspective, if you are doing an emptying the xin/heart mind practice, you are simultaneously embracing all the spokes of the wheel, seeking a neutral point from which to merge with their yin-yang and five phase process.<<
*Would the inner smile then be the merging between wuxing and yin-yang? What really makes the inner smile an advancement over emptying xin/heart mind? Thanks.
FajinMay 6, 2006 at 11:04 am #13519
The first time I heard this concept was whe I was about 17 or 18. I was reading some rumi poetry. It talked about needing emptyness to serve god. You have to have a doorway to place a door, a cup works becuase it has a empty space. I like the wheel one the best. I do not know if there are 8 spokes on the wheel but that would make sense.
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