- This topic has 31 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 3 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
…my Christian belief system…
The book above uses a kind of Christian alchemical imagery meditationally, but it ignores actually more advanced practices (Buddhist tantric) which one can find described for example in the book below.
…Shiva the destroyer means I remove the illusion of the entire universe, I die to it and reach the other side…
I agree.
Sorry for my broke English.
HOWDY
Important things I noticed :
I studied Gurdjieff seriously and for some time. He had begun with a complex and intricate alchemical path. But somewhere along his journey he declared that once you have “I Am” then the “Real I” is just behind it …. and he began to define an end condition of the path.
What is the relationship between his long and arduous alchemical path …. and “I Am” ? Does one lead to the other ? Or is the alchemical path just a waste of time ?
Gurdjieff never answered this question.
The alchemical path does develop you …. but “I Am” leads to cessation and total surrender – perhaps there is no connection with alchemy.
I don’t know.
But one thing is for sure, in India they transmit “I Am” directly on Day 1 – at least the old adepts did and some still do. They don’t play the alchemical path game. For instance there is the book “I Am That”. And Mooji a medium level teacher and other advaita teachers transmit “I Am”.
So what is the use of the alchemical path ?
Is it a complete waste of time ?
Or, does it lead to a pre-development required at the beginning for basic souls ?
Or, is it just of practical value, helping a bit through energetic cleansing ?
Or, is it immortality of body ? (otherwise known as being really lost and not understanding the way out)I do not know the answer to these questions.
What do you think C.Howdy ?
Do you know ?But I also remarked on Mr Winn’s post a few weeks ago when he confirmed that he has concluded that “dying before you die” is the admission fee for immortality. Confirming Gurdjieff’s understanding.
In the Healing Dao at what point do you die before you die ?
I wonder if many highly alchemized individuals actually either lose their souls, or waft around in the material universe for hundred thousand years before hopefully exiting the maya.
It is extremely challenging to see straight.
Anyway I guess I am just very boring. I see the narrow gate ahead, and I am stopping for no man. I have seen the level of suffering here and I am not staying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmQtPgOViYg
…but one thing is for sure, in India they transmit “I Am” directly on Day 1 – at least the old adepts did and some still do..
Sorry, but this referred to shaktipat?
HOWDY
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaktipat
Shaktipat or Śaktipāta (Sanskrit, from shakti – “(psychic) energy” – and pāta, “to fall”)refers in Hinduism to the conferring of spiritual “energy” upon one person by another. Shaktipat can be transmitted with a sacred word or mantra, or by a look, thought or touch – the last usually to the ajna chakra or third eye of the recipient.
Halāhala (Sanskrit हलाहल) or kālakūṭa (Sanskrit कालकूटं, literally: ‘black mass’ or ‘time puzzle’) is the name of a poison (as per Hindu mythology) created from the sea when Devas (Gods) and Asuras (Demons) churned it in order to obtain Amrita, the nectar of immortality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halahala
…what do you think C.Howdy ? Do you know…
One shouldn’t ask this kind of question too seriously; it’s too easy to say YES or NO and lie.
I’m not any kind of Gurdjieff expert, but I have impression that he has been both heavy drinker and smoker and- yes yes-also fierce fornicator.
Why didn’t he become a real beast for example with all these?
…why I wonder if many highly alchemized individuals actually either lose their souls, or waft around in the material universe for hundred thousand years before hopefully exiting the maya…
This is the reason why it’s so important to become totally secretive; it’s all too intricate and personal.
Sorry for my broken English.
HOWDY
Japanese people are … very …. something, not sure what.
Energy
I am afraid that many people have quite ******ideas about what the path is about, flying into the clouds with a lion loincloth with purple energy flowing out of your earholes, following a great master with long beard and silk robes.But you know “self realisation” is …. just the realisation (holding in consciousness) of self (your true or higher nature).
And that’s it.
Sensitivity
When you follow the breath meditation, it starts of seeming like nothing, but if you continue diligently you notice how subtle the breath is, your consciousness merges with the tidal flow of vital force, deeper and deeper.
As you become sensitive you realise the magnitude of what the breath is.
And so it is “self realisation”, to discover your true existence and become sensitive to it, you recognize the sheer enormity of existing.
In our culture of descent and total denial of sensitivity, people are right when the don’t feel anything and don’t understand anything. Yes that is true.
Humans are playful and a little cracked in their head, they love the energy stuff. And they probably get it but lose their souls. This is why Jesus talks of being like child.
Not an Indigo-Energy-Child-Man. Just a child, simple.
Transferring
It’s not so hard, once you feel the inner state inside strongly, try to share it with someone else. Just try. No magic words.
It is there, it is possible, it’s that simple.
We feel and share energy every day, watch.
Secrecy
There is nobody around who wants to “find out”. Nobody cares. Which humans even know they are breathing ? Or can go to the toilet without making a mess. Such is the tragedy of us.
Seeing this you naturally become more reserved, because you know that with people what you talk about is …. house extensions, the Premier League, the weather.
And only a few, just a few, you might get the sense that their hearts are open to life.
Praise the Lord for such rare diamonds.
May my aim be true
May I work well enough, hard enough, and sincerely enough
To deserve my rest at the end of my life
Personally I do Chi Kung because I like it and because it stabilises my emotions and offers protection.
Chi Kung is a subconscious path, meaning you have instructions and follow them and a result ensues.
But the thing is consciousness does not work like this.
It is neither a tool of development nor is it a “result”.
Because YOU have to become awake.In the transferrence of “I Am”, you are shown internally the correct state and you endeavour to hold it so that it deepens and becomes permanent.
Critical
Yes what I believe is Critical is that you understand how chi kung / alchemy leads to “I Am” or to “Dying Before You Die”.
Does anyone know ?
A khaṭvāṅga (Sanskrit: खट्वाङ्ग) is a long, studded club originally created as a weapon. It was adopted as a religious symbol in Indian religions such as Shaivism and Vajrayana Buddhism. The khatvāṅga was adopted by some lineages of historical tantra though it preceded such traditions.
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kha%E1%B9%ADv%C4%81%E1%B9%85ga
…I am afraid that many people have quite ******ideas about what the path is about, flying into the clouds with a lion loincloth with purple energy flowing out of your earholes…
These kinds of iconographic pictures are in that sense practical that these are used in the beginning to help sense withdrawal.
Like below you have 16 years old red skinned girl without any other clothing than bone ornaments and instruments or weapons like flaying knife, skull cup, khatvanga etc.
HOWDY
I Am that I Am (אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה, ehyeh ašer ehyeh [ehˈje aˈʃer ehˈje]) is the common English translation (JPS among others) of the response that God used in the Hebrew Bible when Moses asked for his name (Exodus 3:14). It is one of the most famous verses in the Torah.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_that_I_Am
In Christian theology, baptism with the Holy Spirit (also called baptism in the Holy Spirit or Spirit baptism) is distinguished from baptism with water. It is frequently associated with incorporation into the Christian Church, the bestowal of spiritual gifts, and empowerment for Christian ministry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_with_the_Holy_Spirit
“This doctrine is extremely difficult to explain; but it corresponds more or less to the gap in thought between the Real, which is ideal, and the Unreal, which is actual. In the Abyss all things exist, indeed, at least in posse, but are without any possible meaning; for they lack the substratum of spiritual Reality. They are appearances without Law. They are thus Insane Delusions.Now the Abyss being thus the great storehouse of Phenomena, it is the source of all impressions.”
-ALEISTER CROWLEY
Sorry for my broken English.
My conclusion is here that whatever religion one follows one should not too seriously ridicule (blasphemy) or look down on (vainglory) anything ; but my question here if it’s true that M. Chia’s inner alchemy teacher-as I have understood-really advised him not to study seriously ancient Daoist scriptures which use very experimental language ?
HOWDY
The Blooming Staff: Praise Ialdabaoth!; or, Notes Toward a Treatise on Averse Gnosticism
Vintras emerges, in Lévi’s account, as Batalle’s black magic Gnostic. No wonder, then, that the heir of Vintras, the notorious Abbé Joseph-Antoine Boullan, espoused a form of sexual magic, of an occult spiritist cosmos not unlike Robert Clayton’s in which intercourse with lower beings raises them up in the cosmic hierarchy and intercourse with higher beings raises oneself. These Averse Gnostics saw the material-spiritual cosmos as a dynamic matrix in which base material spirits can rise or fall in the hierarchy, one dominated by the demiurge — Ialdabaoth in the old Gnostic tales, Satan in the poetry of William Blake, Jesus Christ himself in the sect of Eugène Vintras. Or, in the words of the heretic Clayton, “when certain jarring elements meet and break forth in ‘Thunder and Lightning, and Earthquakes, or any other mechanical Operations’ some spirits may become united to a different set of material organs, including organs of a more exquisite and delicate kind” (Duddy, 121).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Clayton_(bishop)
Clayton proposed, 2 February 1756, in the Irish House of Lords, that the Athanasian creed and Nicene creed should be removed from the liturgy of the Church of Ireland.[3] Despite the controversy this aroused, no proceedings were taken against him until the publication of the third part of the ‘Vindication of … the Old and New Testament,’ Dublin, 1757, when he renewed his attack on the Trinity and advanced doctrines contrary to the Thirty-nine Articles. Horace Walpole said caustically that his Vindication seemed calculated to destroy anyone’s faith in the Testaments. The government, by now seriously alarmed by the heterodoxy of Clayton’s opinions, ordered that he be prosecuted for heresy: a meeting of Irish prelates was called at the house of the Primate, and Clayton was summoned to attend. Before the appointed time he died, on 26 February 1758.
I Am That I Am
All that is occurring in this statement is that a person experiences “universal consciousness” which is the conscious plane that is part of creation. As a human experiences it he feels “identity”, hence the name “I Am”. It is felt more strongly at the back of the head, hence halos in most traditions are behind the head. Halos indicate that the universal consciousness has become awakened, and merged with the individual soul. Halos are drawn to indicate the feeling of expansion of your presence that you feel that extends beyond the physical head.
It is not the whole of God. For instance the heart feels it does not talk about “I Am”. If you awaken the heart it becomes illuminated but it is different to the illumination of the head, it is a different dimension of Reality. And there are many dimensions, for instance Dan Tien is again different from the heart. So “I Am” is just one part of Reality’s many dimensions, perhaps it is the most important but who knows. Gradually we can hope to grown into dimension after dimension to explore the hidden mountain. Assuming we don’t perish like most creatures.
“This doctrine is extremely difficult to explain; but it corresponds more or less to the gap in thought between the Real, which is ideal, and the Unreal, which is actual. In the Abyss all things exist, indeed, at least in posse, but are without any possible meaning; for they lack the substratum of spiritual Reality. They are appearances without Law. They are thus Insane Delusions.Now the Abyss being thus the great storehouse of Phenomena, it is the source of all impressions.”
This is a very grand sounding statement and many human-monkeys are in awe of such mystic mumbo, but is it really of use to anyone? Here Crowley is pondering why the unreal exists, he says it is an insane delusion. But I believe he is wrong.
There is a purpose to the ego-mind-subconscious and it’s crazy thoughts. The purpose is that until the soul is awakened, conscious and still, this soul must exist in a matrix to keep it alive, the matrix is a “life support” for a soul that is not conscious yet. That is the cause for the human state of ego-mind and for this world. It is not a “delusion” exactly, but a matrix life support for souls not yet conscious. Because they are not yet conscious they cannot support themselves. In our society many ideas and words and feelings are exchanged and they seem “fake” …. but they are simply the vehicles of the matrix’s life support. How else does the matrix keep the identity of unconscious souls alive ? It does so with the vehicles of thoughts and emotions, each of which carry identity.
So, when an ordinary unconscious human is feeling and thinking it is not exactly a delusion, but it is the matrix keeping his primitive identity alive. And the vehicles for this are thoughts and feelings – thoughts which don’t make sense in themselves.
So when you look at a person’s thoughts or feelings it’s all a big nonsensical mess. True. But what is also true is that it is used to keep the primitive consciousness alive.
In this place and state, humans are extremely vulnerable to the darkness and many souls are simply deceived and fall back down. Confusion reigns. Hence there is no time to waste or f**k around.
What is necessary is to recognize the fragility of this life, and give up being outside of God. Abide as “I Am” and merge with God.
Mantak Chia’s teacher had a kindly smile and a gentle way about him, living simply in the mountains. Chia wanted to help people and was impressed by the results of Chi Kung. All very lovely. But if everyone on this planet, every parent and child, is going to die … why are people content ?
How can you really love somebody as you as you eat dinner with them knowing that you are all going to die, that you don’t know why you are alive, and you make no attempt to save yourself or your family. You sit and eat, and die together. How can you be happy ? You should be ashamed.
It is quite bullsh**. Isn’t it ? Instead of being loving, it is being lost, and a sad scene.
Mankind mustn’t die like this. Our species has had many achievements, can we not reach critical mass ? Who is willing to try ?
…mankind mustn’t die like this…
In my opinion one should become total egoist.
It’s in the end only one’s own survival which counts.
But isn’t it so that actually M. Chia’s parents were Christians so he has been exposed to that faith since very early age.
I also think that in one of his books he promised to reveal Jesus’s palce in the cosmic scheme.
Sorry for my broken English.
HOWDY
109:0.1 (1195.1) THE Thought Adjusters are the children of the universe career, and indeed the virgin Adjusters must gain experience while mortal creatures grow and develop. As the personality of the human child expands for the struggles of evolutionary existence, so does the Adjuster wax great in the rehearsals of the next stage of ascending life. As the child acquires adaptative versatility for his adult activities through the social and play life of early childhood, so does the indwelling Adjuster achieve skill for the next stage of cosmic life by virtue of the preliminary mortal planning and rehearsing of those activities which have to do with the morontia career. Human existence constitutes a period of practice which is effectively utilized by the Adjuster in preparing for the increased responsibilities and the greater opportunities of a future life. But the Adjuster’s efforts, while living within you, are not so much concerned with the affairs of temporal life and planetary existence. Today, the Thought Adjusters are, as it were, rehearsing the realities of the universe career in the evolving minds of human beings.
http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-109-relation-adjusters-universe-creatures
This volume offers the Basic Universal healing Tao practices , which constitute just the first half of the universal healing Tao system. By 2020 the written system should be complete, with the publication of another twenty-one books on topics such as cosmic astrology, Greater Kan and Li practices, and Christ’s teachings within the Tao.
The Urantia book is like many such materials spouting from American culture, like ACIM, and also all the “channels” from planet Nibiru, the Pleiades, and forgive me for not remembering the so many others. Bashar, Mount Shastra, Teal Swan, Abraham Hicks, Chiron, Crimson Circle.
There is something very insincere and fake about American culture.
As well as some good and courageous things that I appreciate.
Perhaps it is difficult for Americans to appreciate as their roots are shallow, not like the ancient cultures of the East or even of Europe or the Middle East.Well let’s cut to the chase. I am not interested in a book by 2020, just simply does anyone know the answers to the following simple questions :
- How does HT lead to enlightenment, at what point does it occur, what is the theory?
- Tao Te Ching is about flowing and surrendering, not controlling. Is HT then compatible with Taoism?
- Many sages reached enlightenment without energy techniques. What then is the place of energy techniques?
- Has any HT practitioner reached enlightenment, and what are his answers?
- Does HT point towards physical immortality rather than transcendent immortality, and what can be said about these different goals ?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.