January 9, 2016 at 3:49 am #45633
Is there a way of totally overcoming these issues. As much and as long as I try to improve my relationship with my parents, it all seems stuck in a never changing never ending pattern.
So much improvement in my life in all areas of interest except for this one. Is there a way to feel good in their presence? As much as I try to change my stance both externally and internally I end up feeling shitty around them. Its like two different realities, my life and when I visit them, like suddenly the whole world is different (not for good).January 9, 2016 at 4:31 am #45634
It is because there are still links to them, you still want something from them and you are unsatisfied with what you have received.
And you have not opened that box.
Also one can become secretly content in such a situation, it may be painful but it is a pain that you have grown to be comfortable in.
Normally one cannot see one’s parents as who they are, simple humans with flaws that are deeply conditioned and they made the best they could of it. One must “forgive them” … but in the end not really “forgive” because when you see the frailty of their human lives and the frailty of yours, that you will all suffer and then you will die, then something changes deep inside you. And you think of them more as beings who have taken a journey with you.
When you are free in this way, you are able to bring much more light into the relationship and this will help everyone.
Perhaps you can be the first one in your family who is able to actually feel light and to bring true love to the situation, and you become a lighthouse for all.
Your love and hope for your family can be a very strong reminding factor to you to do everything you can to illuminate yourself whilst you are breathing.
As an adult you can talk to your parents in a new way and express your dissatisfaction and walk through your experiences together, without blame; it can be healing. But also there is a much higher goal that is also possible.
After all humans suffer, is there one amongst us who can bring Light ?
Surely everyone would be grateful.January 9, 2016 at 12:00 pm #45636
There is nothing like interacting with one’s parents to show you just how ungrounded you are. 🙂
If you spend more time getting grounded, you will be able to manage it all better. It won’t change them or your feelings about them, but you will be able to remain more neutral and not take their actions/behaviors so personally. It will allow you to create a space where you can be more compassionate without taking their behaviors onto yourself.
As for their behaviors themselves changing, that’s a mixed bag.
Some of this will naturally lighten when you progress in the system and you start working on ancestral issues. As ancestral issues resolve, it benefits the whole ancestral line, not just you. Consequently, they will start to lighten up. In total, they will feel spiritual benefits coming from you both overtly as the result of the benefits that you enjoy (calmness, better health, vibrancy, virtue qualities), and covertly in the form of resolution of issues in the ancestral line (which affect them since they are *also* in your ancestral line). At the same time, neither of these things re-shapes them into “what YOU want”. That type of concept is ego-based and personal-based; this will not occur . . . in particular, they still retain their own free will. However, in the form of the other changes mentioned, relations overall will improve . . . and THAT is the important bit!
Speaking from experience on all of the above.
StevenJanuary 9, 2016 at 4:34 pm #45638
Thank you Steven once again. In which courses are ancestral issues addressed? Is it Chi Kung Fundamentals 4?January 9, 2016 at 4:36 pm #45640
Thank you rideforever for the really compassionate message.January 9, 2016 at 11:31 pm #45642
While some of the bone work in QF4 is related (pun intended), you’ll have to wait for Greater Kan & Li to get into ancestral issues with any seriousness.
SJanuary 10, 2016 at 7:17 am #45644
Osho said something very interesting about working with ancestral issues. He said, how many issues are you going to fix exactly ? Considering the age of our species. 2 generations of issues, 2000 generations ?
He said it in relation to Primal Therapy, but the message is the same.
If it took 2000 generations to produce your issues, it will take 2000 more generations to put things back the way you want them.
In other words it cannot work.
One must activate one’s intelligence in these matters, or you chase ghosts. Chase the past.
Perhaps a little something could be done, but the past is not the direction you want to travel in. What for ?
If you have to fix all these issues to move forwards then accept defeat now. If you do not have to fix them, the simply do the things that propel you forwards and forget about other stuff.
Requiring the past to be fixed before you can be free, is like thinking the answer is in buying a few more DVD courses.January 10, 2016 at 10:50 am #45646
Great responses by everyone to a nearly universal question, thanks.
The real question is How do I cut to the ROOT of the problem?
There is no past, that linear-post natal space illusion.
The problem comes from humans not recycling back to source at death, and their baggage gets recycled into new souls arriving.
This is not an accident, it is the Dark Side agenda for keeping humans bogged down in swampy marsh.
So it’s not about changing your parents, it’s about changing your relationship with your inner resistance (= what you internalized from the Dark Side) to loving Yuan Qi, the Original Breath, your original nature, we could call it your Cosmic Parent. Before it birthed the Dark and Light Sides that are “working” things out in multiple dimensions.
It is very tough to accept and really own that some aspect of the Dark Side came in with our soul at birth. That each of us as a soul agreed to work out the dark-side light-side struggle within the slow-motion dream of physicality where the pain of it is made very tangible.
The simplest thing for folks who do not have training in inner alchemy, i.e. the skill to intensify and resolve these light-dark polarities in multiple dimensions, is to cultivate neutrality (as suggested).
I think a really good way for anyone is to delve deeper into the Inner Smile, finding the space of higher acceptance and focusing that on people or situations needing depolarisation.
The Deep Earth Rooting Qigong practice in Fundamenals 3/4 brings in neutral force from Mother Earth as an ally, IF you can keep your mind focused on the center of the earth while practicing the deep earth pulsing of your Qi.
Sun-Moon-Earth Alchemy brings in a more powerful set of allies with the ability to dissolve patterns trapped in the earth’s low astral field, where it haunts us physical humans.
Hope this helps.
michaelJanuary 11, 2016 at 2:15 am #45648
I see young people today asking how they can deal with their “emotional problems”. Prozac? Chi Kung ?
On some forums you see these teenagers saying that they have complicated feelings about relationships and they want a pill to stop feeling those things.
But – you are meant to feel those things !!!! How else will you grow. That pain is the pain of living. Any avoidance will keep you as a child, it is through fire that you grow.
It is through facing yourself, facing life, looking people in the eye, that you live.
And in fact they are not having “emotional problems”, they simply refuse to feel themselves. To feel the feeling of living. Because they grow up in a society of avoidance, of people dreaming of winning the lottery, who know nothing about themselves.
As soon as an “emotion” that they don’t like starts, they block it, and so it persists.
So, what is being suggested here ? That you sit with your family that brought you into the world, the closest people to you … and you do Deep Earth Pulsing ? Or you sit there and think “If only I had bought the Sun Moon Alchemy DVD, oh now I have to feel this pain”!
One day these people are going to be dead. Do even want to know them at all ? Do you have any idea what love is ? Do you want to live in a dream ? In the future ? Do you want to feel anything ?
OneCloud, the originator of this Healing Tao system, died at 96. After living in the mountains for decades doing Chi Kung. Yes it is a little longer than most people, but not that much longer. Maybe if it was 296 that would be another matter.
I read that one is supposed to practice these teachings for 80-100 years.
By the way, 2 students of Buddha, Mogallana and Sariputta became “enlightened” and free of suffering after 7 days and 13 days respectively. Yes you heard it right, 7 days. Not 80 years.
Another thing I have noticed is this appeal to nature. The deer, the bear, the crane. Chi Kung appeals to the naturalism of the world.
But the crane does not do Chi Kung. The deer does not do Chi Kung. These animals do not make a habit of avoiding life or trying to change their emotions. They simply live. Rain of shine. And to be like them is also to accept the course of your river – that is truly what it means to be natural.
I am not saying that Chi Kung teachings are not useful, but man is an addict of avoidance of existence. And it just goes on and one and on. One course, another course, another this another that.
It’s amazing the tower of levels that people have invented. It is endless. 5th formula, the 9th dimension, the 25th demiurge.
And the whole good-bad-fighting-the-darkness business, these endless stories of Archons and Anunaki and bla bla bla … it is also a representation of the endless fabrications of the mind. It may just be a Hollywood movie.
It just never ends.
Like with the Ancestors. Same as Family Constellation Therapy. You first clear out your parents issues, then your grand-parents, then their parents, then this and that and this and that … you will be long dead before you complete this journey. How far will you go back ? To the amoeba ?
This way of doing things cannot work. Get the message.
Even the way “meditation”, this word, is used in Chi Kung circles is also to promote endless practices of disolving one problem, and then another, and then another and so on and on and on.
Whereas in India “meditation” is a practice for taking your sword and cutting through the entire thing now. And finish.
Yes, Chi Kung has its place, but it is clear to me that it often practiced through the addictive conjuring mind.
Some people even boast of how great it is that Chi Kung is so addictive.January 11, 2016 at 3:30 am #45650
I am also very marked when I read accounts of spiritual practitioners who have died. Ron Diana, and Joyce Gayheart in this tradition. My understanding that her last words were that she was angry at God. (although it seems there was some resolution that came to her afterwards with Michael Winn)
Well, there is much to learn and it is essential to learn. If we are setting out to fight God, to force our ideas of what life should be on the life process, to try to stay in this body forever … then you are in conflict with God. You have set out not to reconcile life, not to face it, not to meet it … but to defeat it.
Some say that they simply like this form, like this body and want to stay for a long time. To me this is just an excuse of identification. You are unable to comprehend that your identity is not of the body, and find a nice sounding way of stating that.
But the message of so many teachings is : you are not the body.
Gurdjieff says :
“Conscious love evokes the same in response.
Emotional love evokes the opposite.
Physical love depends on type and polarity.
Faith of consciousness is freedom.
Faith of feeling is slavery.
Faith of body is stupidity.
Hope of consciousness is strength.
Hope of feeling is cowardice.
Hope of body is disease.”
We should only hope to be, what we are. If we hope to be what we are not then we certain muddle ourselves.
The only way to honour the body is not to force it to live unnaturally long because we are too afraid to face life ? Too afraid to accept. Isn’t the body tortured enough by our stupidity ?
There is not enough time to do wrong things.
One must activate that thing between the ears, and the other thing between the armpits.
And when people die let us learn from them.
And all this cleverness, is it really Taoism. Laozi seemed much more content to flow with the river.
“The best people are like water, which benefits all things and does not compete with them. It stays in lowly places that others reject. This is why it is so similar to the Way.”
“Try to change it and you will ruin it. Try to hold it and you will lose it.”
Anyway, all practice must come from the right place.January 12, 2016 at 4:08 pm #45652
It brings a new perspective and motivation for evolving and resolving this issue.January 12, 2016 at 7:07 pm #45654
thanks for that. Sometimes get too focused on the (still very necessary) physical chi kung and eventually get into struggling with various energies when needing to check in to alchemical and more subtle levels to get refinement and resolution of polarities.January 15, 2016 at 2:27 pm #45656
Your rant against qigong and meditation I feel is misplaced.
I agree wholeheartedly that people are in denial of the feelings – that is just another way of saying that they are not in touch with their BODILY feelings.
But apply your own logic to what you advocate: Just Feel the SHIT of this world, and grin and bear it, maybe eventually learn to love it.
And what’s the point, once you are feeling the shit and loving it? Like, so what?
That just puts you into kindergarten. It’s basic step. But it’s not a final answer or a final process. Are you suggesting that just wallowing in the sea of suffering is your path? Or are you playing Jesus, and saying that by your loving the suffering and being the Greatest Sufferer of Them All, that you have redeemed everyone else’s suffering?
Then you jump to the Transcendentalist schools, praising them as superior to Taoist path because it is so much quicker. You are essentially pushing Pure Land Buddhism, which advocates INSTANT ENLIGHTENMENT.
The problem with this approach (in my view) is that it’s not real. You are STILL stuck with your suffering body, OR you are simply floating OUT OF YOUR BODY in some projected astral dream reality, actually DENYING the very thing that you argue for, which is FEELING YOUR BODY.
Talk is cheap. I know so many cases of Zen Buddhists who, after a lifetime of “transcending”, finally wake up the fact that they haven’t changed anything in the core screwed up relationships with their Mommy or Daddy. In short, they did an Ancestral Bypass.
The Tao path of Inner Alchemy is maddeningly slow because it tackles the CORE ISSUE of “how is my body arising, and can I get closer to the causal level of self-creation?”
Just feeling the surface emotions as they arise will NOT accomplish this. You have to dig underneath the physical body, to grasp its essence. The transcendentalist are not grasping the jing level – they are hiding in the shen level, and deluding themselves that they are above the patterns still embedded in their own jing.
Digging into that jing and dissolving it, layer by layer, is the toughest job in the world. And not everybody is cut out for that. Apparently, you are not. There’s no judgement here, no claim to superiority.
There’s is just a deeper understanding that the pop Taoist dictum of “follow the flow of external life leads to death. The alchemical wisdom is that Reversing the flow of Qi and tracking it back to its Source leads to CONSCIOUS eternal life”.
There is no grasping after physical immortality – just cultivating the hidden reality, hidden deep beneath the feelings on the physical surface (that you call emotions – the response to what has manifested). Grasping the unmanifest Qi before it has been poured into the mold of suffering, a mold created by an endless line of unenlightened ancestors – that is changing the Self and loving the world at its deepest root.
Thanks for considering that your frustrations with this path may simply be challenging elements within your constitution or simply that your have a different destiny. – MichaelJanuary 16, 2016 at 5:03 am #45658
“Talk is cheap” : yes, but mankind often uses this to launch himself into an endless fury of activity.
What I am suggesting is that we carefully consider the situation. Laozi’s words should give us pause as they seem to suggest allowing the river to flow in its natural way.
What you say about “what’s the point of just feeling this shit”, in my view, just shows how confused people are, many wold say the same thing. People do talk a lot about having pain and suffering, but they don’t really go into it. They see it, talk about it, but actually refuse it. And then the question comes “what’s the point of wallowing?”. Well, I suggest we merge with the pain instead and then we will see the point.
The core issue of “how is my body arising” is very interesting I am sure, as is Qigong and it has many wonderful benefits, and I practice many hours a day. And that’s great, and we are very fortunate for the few wonderful teachers out there, of course you are one Mr Winn, so thank you.
I would like to reflect on something. That the body is part of the universe, and part of time, part of the space-time that makes up this region that we name “universe” : your ancestors are part of it. Part of the long-chain of creation of the entire universe.
If you set yourself the task of going back through the entire chain, through all the ancestors, all the matter involved … where are we planning on arriving ? At the big bang ? It is all connected, from our ancestors, the formation of organic life, before that the Earth, then the solar system and so on. It is one chain. Can we really only be “free” if we fix all the links in this chain and heal everything till the origin of time ? Or when will we stop ? After 3 generations, 300 ?
For me this does not seem the best course of action. Many spiritual teachers talk of simply cutting through our attachment to the body, a change that renders us one with our pure nature beyond the body. And then because we are no longer “indentified with the body” (we no longer confuse it for ourselves) then we can exist in the body in a harmonious way and the body functions in Lazi’s natural way, flowing like a river.
In fact plants and animals and Laozi’s rivers are quite harmonious, surely most humans would settle for such a life.
In my view the overall situaton is in the end quite simple.
A subconscious (mechanical) creature exists in harmony since he doesn’t have much free will (animals).
A conscious creature exists in harmony as to be conscious he recognizes his unity with the whole (awakened souls).
But a creature that is subconscious with a touch of consciousness … now that is a mess. He has a beginning sense of identity, but who is it ? Who is I ? Surely I is the body, and it’s going to die, so furiously we must fix it, and the ancestors, layer after layer, and so on …
For such a creature he is excited about his first touch of consciousness, wants to do everything himself but it doesn’t seem to work. He has the feeling of an individual, but in his excitement he loses the universal. He exists in a state of mistaken identification with the body.
A further thing to see is this : that people on this planet are trying to fix their problems : war, famine, poverty, environment, equality and so on. Can we ask if it works ? Well, no not really, after thousands of years you can say it doesn’t really work. Man’s actions are not fixing these things. And why not ? Well, it is simply because the humans themselves do not seem able to fix things, they are too confused.
So I suggest that sudden awakening, which is opening a gate to the higher forces of consciousness and let that force clean your house, is the only way.
We accept (by our observation of ourselves) that it really isn’t working to clean ourselves, so we open a bridge for higher forces to clean.
It’s interesting what you say about being “out of your body” and many of the disharmonious things that happens in spiritual circles. Well, we can only expect that at the level of consciousness of mankind. Everything is messy. At least they try something.
And I connect it to something I hear in the Inner Smile Meditation CD, near the beginning :
“remember or create the highest moment of bliss or peace, a moment of self-realisation, whatever peak experience that you can remember or imagine having”.
What I note is the phrase “whatever peak experience”. Yes people have “peak experiences”, and they are called “peak” because they fade. Because the aspirants do not have the knowledge of permanently entering them and for the state to enter the body, to become embodied.
But, not many meditators seem to know about such things, they settle for “I felt big energy man” … or whatever. The sequence I have been taught is : open the gate to higher consicousness, make it permanent, and it enters the body. In this way the skill becomes one of opening yourself to higher forces and for them to flow into your entire being and body. In this way the body is also transformed permanently, and gracefully. And yes it is difficult and subtle to learn.
Interesting this situation with peak experiences is analogous to the difference between just touching emotions but not going through them to their inner meaning, not having the skill to work with them properly. Seems mankind does not have much skill in general.
Everyone has to do what seems to works for them, which indeed they do. I just present some different angles.
Well I enjoy communicating and reading such conversations, but I do recognize that many do not.January 16, 2016 at 8:07 am #45660
Actually, it looks like even the Buddha went through all his past lives. Surely, past lives are not exactly ancestors, but in Buddhism they say that all living beings have been in some way or another our ancestors.
The thing is either enlightenment is reached after you have corrected, recognized, embraced your biological/emotional/deep psychological patterns either this is a work you’ll have to do AFTER you got your sudden enlightenment, otherwise you will end up like all these awakened neo-advaitan californian or english salesmen who claim instant englightenment, instant liberation and still act like jerks in their daily lives or have insane bodies.
After spending years searching in various spiritual schools, I really thinks that there is no free lunch in spiritual matters and that one has to pay the full price for that-which means digging up into all layers of one’s being : from physical up to the finer part of it.
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