Gunther Weil : view points on his Alchemy expierence? Whats his Story?

“To be fair, it should also be pointed out that there are some teachers of the Taoist arts who warn that the mental manipulation of internal energies, channels, etc. is a dead-end. Their emphasis, beyond embodying desired attributes of virtue and morality, is to simply rest awareness in the body, initially in the lower Dantian, and allow the process of cultivation to proceed naturally and effortlessly. In their understanding, not only is this approach more consistent with principles of Wu Wei, it is also safer both physically and spiritually.”

Since I missed out on the last discussion, let me add some additional light.

Gunther originally taught Chia how to set up a national workshop schedule and got him going in the early 80’s.
But he was older than Chia, wanted to be his own teacher, and there was no room next to Chia for him to grow. Chia was very ambitious, needless to say, and Gunther felt squeezed out slowly.

So he dropped out of the Healing Tao, and from what he told me, never got into practicing alchemy beyond the fusion, which he loved – and wrote a whole book on. But the book was too heady, and not practical enough, so got rejected.

Gunther also felt Chia was manipulating chi too much, same reason I restructured my teaching of Fusion and qigong by shifting it into shengong (which is based on 5 shen theory fundamental to Chinese medicine and most Taoist sects throughout its history). But this all developed after Gunther left the healing tao.

Later he got into Eckhardt Tolle. But Tolle doesn’t have any practical method, so Gunther found his niche by integrating qigong and tolle “being present” practice.

I know that Gunther’s comments are directed at his old association and competition with Chia, and not at the Healing Tao USA qigong and shengong method of teaching alchemy. The reason I know it is that Gunther borrowed my use of shen gong after I told him that was what he is really teaching.

The vague illusions to people being hurt by inner alchemy are usually people who never went through a progressive training.

They tried to jump right into doing sexual energy practices without the proper foundation. Or tried to force breathing too much. This was partly due to the nature of the materials being disseminated on a mass scale with too few qualified teachers to give students feedback – and equally the fault of students who didn’t bother or have the discipline to seek out a decent teacher or go to a retreat.

The good teachers of qigong and inner alchemy have very, very few students with problems, in my experience. And it is why I personally began offeirng home training courses, so that people would have a complete progression available to them that integrated all the different practices.

Progressive training is what makes the combination of qigong and inner alchemy both powerful and safe. Students who skip ahead out of sexual eagerness or typical western head-tripping – trying to eat more informaiton than they can digest – are almost always the source of problem, not the practices per se.

So don’t be fooled into throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Just because some people are bad drivers and get into accidents is not reason to stop driving.

michael

Hello:

maybe we can ask Gunther to give his ‘current” thoughts on this matter and not rely on others to summarize his opinions, experience and thoughts.

ba gua

I think that the topics that Gunther’s article circles are very profound, and I am dubious of anyone’s answers to date. And I don’t view as realistic statements near the ballpark of “It works safely and effectively for everyone like this: 1-2-3”.

Reading biographies of accomplished cultivators is educational, I think. Unvaryingly the task of Realization is extremely harrowing and rare. Difficulty and danger are not foreign to the path. And these are the people who’ve done well; the exceptional practioners. In all the serious schools, everyone else is acknowledged as confused. That’s just the reality of it.

This goes triple for the sexual practices.

Watching this forum for the last eight years or so, my observation is that results have been a very mixed bag; on the whole: difficult. People vary. Life is difficult. Spiritual work is the deepest long term, most challenging – and, yes, risky – work there is.

Its just not as simple and reliable, nor as easily observed, as a Lego set.

I think that turning alchemy into a modern-day-product is problematic for teachers. We, as modern consumers, are used to buying stuff that is “all put together and works”. As a teacher, saying “life is so complex and profound, and each individual varies so, I hope I can help you without screwing up too much” is not a usual sales pitch, but is probably closer to realistic. And is, for me at least, a more interesting conversation.

The answer to “Is alchemy safe?” is clearly “nope”.

Seems to me that the more constructive question is:
“What are the dangers of alchemy?”
and
“How, specifically, can we go about navigating through those areas more safely?”

These questions lead to all sorts of very specific, and educational, conversations. Too lengthy, obviously, for just one post or one thread – but on-going. Its a significant part of what an aspirant’s education consists of, or could/should consist of. I would suggest that that is what both Mantak Chia, Michael Winn, and various other teachers are working on doing: making the teachings increasingly effective, and increasingly safe.

Michael,

In this case, I agree with Max’s point:

> I’m refering to the original male sex book and iron shirt related merchandise. >

Personally, I agree with Max on the point of both books.
However, the case of the iron shirt 1 material is backed up by HT actions. ie, the following:

1. Iron shirt packing breathing is not being actively taught. In 1999 a HT instructor posted, “Everyone who has studied with Master Chia knows that the packing practices in Iron Shirt have not been actively taught for quite a few years. The reason is that these practices were originally developed to be used by experienced martial artists with highly developed energy systems. If the energy channels are not already open, there will be problems.”

That post was ~7 yrs ago and mentioned that teaching the practice had been discontinued for “quite a few years”. That puts it, reasonably, in the vicinity of a decade .. ouch.

2. Your warning article about packing breathing.

So, both branches of HT know that people are getting too frequently injured by IS1 packing – to the extent that the practice is no longer taught, yet the book & video are still being sold. Basically, both branches are selling a product that they (and you) know is hurting people. Yipes.

Know that this isn’t easy or fun for me to write.

Please respond.

regards,
Keith

Alchemy is just another word to describe “accelerated process of change”.

Is change safe? Not if someone is afraid of it and of what they will find inside themselves.

I think its far more dangerous to avoid change. And that the vibrational increases in this time zone demand accelerated rate of change. Those who fail to respond face elevated levels of confusion and possibly madness – far worse than those who experiment and use qigong and alchemy to change/heal themselves and keep pace with the changes.

So I would say life itself, which is the process of change, has risk, and alchemy shares that risk.

I would be interested in hearing what dangers alchemy has subjected you to personally.
And its seems that you’ve oversome those dangers, given the nature of your website.

michael