Gunther Weil : view points on his Alchemy expierence? Whats his Story?

Trunk,

Exactly what I was trying to say with breath retention practices like 9 bottle breathing except you mistook it as a “dis” about other practices traditions. This goes towards a different path, not a daoist path.

IF you follow One Cloud’s suprastructure, you don’t need 9 bottle breathing, you only need the orbit for clearing and filling the channels. They are all specialized practices which carry specialized risks, only breath retention carries bigger risks. It’s a spiritual shortcut but not needed FOR THE DAOIST PATH (specialized suprastructure)!

Trunk
Is it possible to elaborate a bit on what the obvious risks are. (besides exces packing)
I’m not asking out of mere curiosity, but from a standpoint of caution given that my “training” thus far has been via video/cd. (and folowing the great tips from your site)

I suppose case histories of injury or specific problems would not only validate claims of danger, but help identify where any refinements may be necessary and extra warning given, if necessary.
Otherwise Michaels response appears quite adequate.

Thanks Keith,
– mat

Mat,

> Is it possible to elaborate a bit on what the obvious risks are. >

Legitimate question.
Unfortunately, as I mentioned to Fajin, it’s past time for my nap. I’m not being coy, its that I’ve expended more than my share on this thread already.
Best to you.

Trunk

m> include an insert into the book to read my article on the dangers of excessive packing.
Thanks, >

Thank you.

A stamp (with web-link to your article) might be easier, and more effective. It’d stay with the book to protect even the next person, if the book changes hands. Obviously your call. I’m assuming you’d do the same with books that go through distributers, such as Amazon or local bookstores.

I don’t control Chia’s distribution. But I will email him the article to see if he will consider including it in future reprints.
michael

GW> One result of this is that after many months or years of dedicated practice, many students and teachers become identified with a self-image of attainment. The mental structure of the ego assumes an identity, albeit in this instance a spiritual identity, that superficially replaces the ordinary, more pedestrian, material ego or self. This is a particular danger in any teaching, but especially in those practices that emphasize the manipulation of Qi or Prana in the form of ascending or descending channels or meridians such as Conception and Governing vessels and the Thrusting Channel (Ch’ung Mo), or focus on energizing specific centers or Chakras in the body as in some of the classic and modern interpretations of the Indian Yogic systems. >

From the above quote, it looks like Gunther isn’t clear about the relation of stillness and the central channel, deep-centers, bindus. ie, he talks about energy moving up and down the central channel, but doesn’t mention its resolution into emptiness & light within the central channel. In classical Taoism this is talked about as the “mysterious pass”, the “yellow woman”, and by other names, and its repeatedly acknowledged that if you don’t know about that then you’ll go in circles with this stuff your whole life (for instance, see Vitality Energy Spirit). Michael Winn knows about it and talks about it as the “neutral space”. There are references to it within my site in the “Overview” and “Extraordinary Vessels” sections.

This is related to the process of profoundly transcending mundane self while at the same time building a functional, coherent, “True” body. Unification point of stabilized concentration and Vast Openness.

As I mentioned before, I’m basically in nap-mode. Plenty to chew on from readings and Michael’s input.

Trunk

Alchemical Taoism.com