November 18, 2005 at 2:49 pm #8468
So I injured my knee as anyone who reads thetaobums(Sean Omlor’s site) knows. I tore my meniscus in my right knee while doing Brazillian Jiu Jitsu. Funny thing(or not so funny) I got the same injury 10 years ago on my left knee doing Aikido. I guess it is my right of passage when getting deeper into a new MA to tear maniscus!
Anyway, I am pretty conservative in these matters. I went to a sports medicine specialist this morning who sees these type of injuries all the time. He treats proffesional athletes so he picks up my knee and in like 2 minutes knows exactly what’s wrong and says ” you need surgery, I don’t even kneed to do an MRI I have seen this so many times. Your meniscus is torn”.
Now I do know a couple holistic wacko’s like my father and Plato Rosinke who apparently know “other options”.
My Dad is one of those that thinks the body heals everything naturally on it’s own. Surgery and all of our modern wonders are basically bad .I don’t know much about the meniscus and how it works or if it would actually grow back together on it’s own but I do know it has been 6 weeks already and no improvemnt .I also know I don’t want to wait a year for my knee to heal itself naturally(if that is even possible which I doubt) If surgery is going to make be completly better in weeks.
Plato mentioned something last time we spoke about a chinese guy that is strong he can just push things back in place or something. Now the meniscus is the tissue around the joint not the joint or bone itself so I don’t know if it’s possible to push cartilage/tissue back into place. Also, from what Plato said this would involve going to China.
My guess in 99% I am going to go ahead with the surgery but was interested if anyone else had any experience with this kind of injury or if other options besides surgery were even possible.November 18, 2005 at 11:22 pm #8469
…I will e-mail you his contact info.November 18, 2005 at 11:27 pm #8471
Something to check out is prolotherapy. In my opinion, I would try it before surgery. Of course, there is a time and a place for different things but since you asked…
I have tried it for my neck and back car accident injuries recently. Overall, the pain is greatly reduced.
Here is a link to your specific condition…
Wishing you the best!
Torn MeniscusNovember 19, 2005 at 12:00 am #8473
I appreciate the feedback but am going to stick with my Sports Surgeon. I already had the exact same surgery over 10 years ago on my other knee and have had no negative side effects at all.
Plus, with holidays, work, scool, going to Atlanta for Christmas. It’s not the time to be flying off to China to see some expert Plato Recommends.
My doc said I will be back in my martial arts class and walking around freely like 2 weeks after surgery.
Now if I could just somehow avoid becoming one of those guys that has been in martial arts his whole life and had like 7 surgeries after this that would be awesome.November 19, 2005 at 1:41 pm #8475
I have had knee surgery due to a total ligament tear suffered initially from doing 2 hours of flying snap kicks into a stationary bag (karate teacher was a not so smart) and then finishing it off in China in a push hands demo (due to egotistical tai chi teacher). Anyways, I have never been sorry for the surgery I had. Pain was immense as they had to take one of my 3 tendons that are in the hamstrings and put one of those in my knee. Recuperation time was about 3 months, back in taichi doing just a little and in one year complete full recovery, is stronger than other knee, although screws do get cold in -30 deg celcius weather. You can always try this and that but if you are serious in wanting to continue with your martial arts just go get the surgery, do the physiotherapy recommended, stick to their guidelines (Well, actually my doc said it was okay to do leg press for recovery exercises. However when he checked with me later, he asked how much weight I was doing. I said you told me dto do what I used to do , maybe a little less so I used to do 300. I toned it done to 200 at first then 250 lbs now. My doctor just about fell off his chair. He said well if the tendon held that is great, but he would’ve preferred I started with quite a bit lower weight – so make sure you clarify those things with doctor first). However all said, a meniscus tear is pretty minor but can irritate the knee quite a bit. Blood only gets to the very outside of the meniscus so regeneration is limited. Once torn it takes a lot to heal it and usually doesn’t completely heal. The surgery you are talking about is usually done thru a small hole they cut in the knee (arthroscopy)They use a little devise to go in and trim the edge of the meniscus. It is true. Recovery is very quick. Especially for athletes who practise qigong or other meditation.
My advise is – go get it done. YOu will never regret it. Pain will minimal in recovery and you proabably next to none after that.
I had trouble getting a true diagnosis as I went to wrong docs at first. They believed a woman belongs in the kitchen, not in the martial arts studio. And if you could walk up and down the stairs hanging on to a railing that was fine. I was luck I worked in surgery department and I knew and orthopaeidic surgeon. As with you, it only took 2 minutes and he said he didn’t need an MRI to know my ligaments/tendons were completely torn and that he was surprised I waseven walking. (strong muscles were supporting the knee due to many hours of training). I am so very, very glad I did the surgery. And I am so sorry for others who are afraid of it and spend many years in pain trying braces and other “crap” to no avail. Like a warrrior …. do what works and get on with your life and what gives you joy.
Western medicine and surgery is not so bad a thing. It truly isn’t. Just to incorporate eastern way with it. Recovery is quick. Maybe not so many surgeries are needed but it is totally wrong to think that Western Medicine doesn’t have very practical and very effective means of helping people. One thing to heed —eastern medicine has also poisoned a number of people, so always good to be careful and cautious in that area.
Well have fun, good luck and swift recovery
RainbowbearNovember 19, 2005 at 6:42 pm #8477
Thank you for the link. I am definitely looking into prolotherapy. I have had a ripped miniscus for a while and no health insurance.
BillNovember 20, 2005 at 7:59 am #8479
My friend is outdoorsman. He once met a guy who was decades older than him and in many times bigger leage regarding being fit alone.
He in past destroyed his knee. So much that he couldn’t walk.
He was prescribed surgery.
He told them to commune off.
At first he could even walk. So did some exercising in bed. Then started to walk. First 5 metres of the house. Then collapsed and dragged himself back. He repeated the next day. Kept going. Kept progressing further down the street.
Kumar suffered back injury. Couldn’t walk. Exercised in bed. The sitting. Then moving. Had no excuse to rip his spine open as he believed it would not heal back to normal again, given normal progress.
My grandmother had her hip opened, torn joint out and replaced with artificial, and sewed back together. They say all is good because she is not bind to bed. I saw her leg after the accident and now. I know the difference. And I love her.
You believe riping your knee open will help him. Keep that faith. You will need it.
PS: Of the people I know, save for few natural exceptions, none can stand up from the ground to standing without jamming the knee. So good luck.November 21, 2005 at 7:33 pm #8481
I have to agree with Rainbow bear.
One quote I remember from Acupuncture school which I always refer back to when discussing Traditional Oriental Medicine went something like “…if a patient shows up with a compound fracture I am not going to recommend needling! He should be sent off to the emergency room!”
I often wonder how after 20+ years of hard style TaeKwonDo and other stuff that I managed to avoid anything approaching a serious injury. Knees are OK, Back is OK. No broken bones. Lots of strains and some sprains. My brother, also a TKD player but non internal martial arts practitioner has ACL surgery many years ago which was necessary for him to even be able to walk normally without occassionally collapsing. Recovery went well, and with his condition I would never have thought of any other approach.
The only thing I wonder is why the hell would you want to carry on with an activity which puts your knees at risk. You’re gonna need those, especially when you get older. But hey, it’s nice to be able to kick ass and take people apart 🙂 I am sure BJJ is a great skill. I used to play intensively in TaeKwonDo (no comparison realism wise to BJJ, and I’m not trying to compare them in this way). Eventually I got to a point where I needed to make a choice in competition at the Black Belt level about whether I was willing to intentionally commit mayhem on another in order to win. If I was not willing to go there it would be dangerous to say the least to be in a ring with someone else who WAS perfectly willing to do so. Thus ended my pursuit of TKD on the tournament level. It seems to me that there are less extreme ways of practicing BJJ which might be somewhat safer. But proving your art in the ring does have it’s advantages over normal training. What you get out of training is very personal, as are your goals and motivations. For me I realized that my energy was best spent in other areas. Maybe this injury happened in order to put such a question to yourself. Ultimately up to you to figure that one out.
Good luck in your recovery.
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