February 3, 2008 at 6:01 pm #27367
OK, here’s a slightly strange question, but then not so strange to those who have similar experience.
How necessary is practice? I find when the communication channels are open, that is from doing qigong and nei dan on a daily basis, the communication equipment such as channels, cauldrons, dan tian, etc., become somewhat self-regulating. They work automatically. They even open the next level to you.
You can kind of tune in during the day and see and feel them working. You can experience the results and benefits of this. So once this takes place, how necessary is practice? Or do you just “let things happen.” Or just “tune in” to monitor the equipment periodically?
I have a cousin who says, and the statement remains unscientific, but anecddotely evidential, that all he ever worked was the microcosmic orbit and everything else opened up as his qi developed. His meditation was devoted to “mystical experience” rather than direct intent focuses on jing, qi, and shen mechanisms.
on the other hand, some perfectly physically healthy people practice and practice and never get anywhere. so whats up with that?
It’d be interesting to hear what other people experience in regard to this.February 3, 2008 at 6:11 pm #27368
How do you demonstrate the effects scientifically? how can you, toa third party, prove that certain levels of accomplishment are achieved? In sports this can be measured in time, score, stats, or performance–such as weight lifted, gymnastics score, etc.
with physical components of body with x-rays and CAT scans, etc. The lesion has healed, the bone has healed, and so forth? With qi gong and alchemy?
Not looking for clinical studies here as with acupuncture that has been proven effective, but mechanism still not understood to western science. looking for something more “anatomical” if you will.February 3, 2008 at 8:18 pm #27370
I think that all practice does is to accelerate the
transformation that is already happening naturally.
If after doing practice for a period of time, you create a certain
acceleration within yourself that you are content with, then
of course you don’t need to practice anymore. However, it
is likely that through continued practice you would get even
more acceleration. I think it depends on how satisfied you
are with your progress and whether you feel natural changes are
occurring rapidly enough.
As for your example of people who practice and practice but never
get anywhere, I would say one of four things are probably true:
1. their practice is not consistent and regular enough to generate
2. maybe they are too forcing or rigid in their practice, which
3. certain issues within are huge, and need either a long period
of concerted effort to effect a change or more potent practices are
4. they actually are changing, but it is too hard for them to
realize the differences that have developed over a period of time
StevenFebruary 3, 2008 at 8:36 pm #27372
The best I think you can do is create a group of people that
have particular ailments, divide the group in two–one a control
group, and the other a qigong group. Then after a period of time,
see what percent of each group healed. Then the results can
be used as anecdotal evidence.
As far as physical ailments, *nothing* can heal the body.
The body can only heal itself. Medicines, herbs, operations, acupuncture,
qigong, or whatever, only provide support to the body to allow
it to do what it already has the capacity to do.
If someone has a medical problem, and then they do qigong and it later
is healed, that in itself is proof. They provided what they
felt was support to the body, and the body responded. I don’t
think realistically you can via some test say that “xyz” is
curable from qigong–reason being everybody’s body is different.
It may work for someone else or it may not. It’s unclear whether
qigong would provide the support needed for the body to heal
for a particular individual–it’s really up to the individual’s
body to heal.
If in your original question, you were really referring to spiritual
experiences and developments, then I don’t believe “tests” can be done.
Ultimately it is an experience between the individual in question and
the life force. For the same reason as the medical issue, each person
is unique so you can’t repeat the experiment in the sense of the scientific method.
Ultimately it is just going to come down to the belief in
what the individual is saying, based on credibility and
personal intuition. The only thing you can really know for
sure is your own personal development.
SFebruary 3, 2008 at 9:16 pm #27374
***How do you demonstrate the effects scientifically? how can you, to a third party, prove that certain levels of accomplishment are achieved? In sports this can be measured in time, score, stats, or performance–such as weight lifted, gymnastics score, etc.***
The best results are medical test; the data don’t lie, I have had many students take my advice and compare what the data states,and doctors professional examination. Either its working or it’s not. Having a teacher with experience make a difference, not all practices are created equal nor are people. I think the history with the practices prove theirs something worth Investigating…S.L.February 3, 2008 at 9:30 pm #27376
I have been doing this lifestyle & practice since the 1980’s everyday it gets better and each time a different & deeper experience. After getting past a basic foundation level true we all can connect to the force within and all around us but doing the practices is key for longevity. I have seen many crash in burn in these practices due to becoming a master of their own domain, and not just following the basic process of the system.
Your question is an important and valid one and I am just commenting on my own personal insight here.
All I can say is practice is key for me and this path has delivered everything it has claimed for me. By practicing often you gain new insights faster & refined ways. I believe Michael posted recently his new and improved combination practices which I would doubt he would be able to refine this by just seeing it or designing it from the thinking mind.
On the basic level we all can connect anytime anywhere to our inner universe, but by plunging deep into the practices we can unlock the mystery’s of the Dao from the nature of the living energy force.
For me it really comes down to practicing and working with the Qi field’s..S.L.February 4, 2008 at 1:45 pm #27378
Unfortunately experimentation on people can sometimes be difficult because we are all so very different. The responses of our bodies and energy bodies are not always the same from person to person, unlike performing an experiment on a mass of metal and observing the changes. That experiment can be duplicated at will by anyone who has the same equipment and process (the backbone of true experimental physical science). Nevetheless it is true (albeit anecdotally)that many people have tried Qigong, and it has benefited them. Ultimately a person must experience this for him or her self.
There certainly are object physiological responses that can be measured. For example, after a year of doing Fundamentals 1-4 and the Fusion practices, my blood pressure dropped from the 160’s to the 130’s. That is a fact because my Dr noted it with some suprise, and annotated it in my patient file.
As to the practice level, I think I’ve expereinced what you have, that the process can become almost automatic as the body/mind and Qi is trained to flow. This required a lot of practice on my part, but in time the system will respond.
Based upon my experience the forms need to be revisited periodically due to internal changes and environmental changes. For example when moving through the Sexual Qigong forms my Qi flow dried up. It was very frustrating. I discovered that going back and doing an intensive on Fusion 1 and the 5 Animals, that my Qi flow opened back up. Some isolated part of me had been absorbing and blocking the flow. The same has been true for the Fusion2/3 practices with the sexual forms. I seem to be oscillating back and forth as I clear stuff, and then move forward. Then I hit another barrier and go back to earlier forms.
Recently I’ve been reviewing the QF3 forms for Internal Qi breathing, which has opened up other things for me. I’m beginning to come to the conclusion that Qigong practice should evolve into something that happens continuously all day long. The price to pay to get there is a lot of practice. some folks need more and some may need less.
hope this helps
BobFebruary 4, 2008 at 10:17 pm #27380
I believe and have felt for my self that there is a stronge corralation between daily practice and speed of change/evolvement. But you can see that principal all over the place. You evolve and our practice evolves. Often I find it is easier to reach people when they are more open and people often become more open when it comes down to life or death or they have hit rock bottum, there is some sort of emotional crash,physical crash, or society becomes more open from economic crash..:) I think you can plant seeds by just being radiant and walk it how you talk it, but often it will not click till there old way of doing things has failed them. You mainly just have to live a good example, you become confident and you will naturaly develope convictions in your practice as you live the results of your practice. I stopped by my old job today, and I started talking to an old co worker, I could tell he was down and we talked about the bs for awhile “did you see the game” that kind of stuff, but then I could tell he felt a littl emore comfertable with me he said ” you Still in to all that self help spiritual stuf” I laughed smiled and said “yeah thats what my day job pays for”. He said “man do you have any recommendations I feel like I need to regain my center” I said ” ohh baby I got the ticket”. I took him to the healingtao web site I said “here is the water”, he laughed got the joke, then he ask me some questions we talked a little more and I left. Ounce some one is opnen there is always more then enough info, books, retreats, experiencial proof as well as emperical. THere are 3500 scientific studies on this very web site.
yummy yummy yummy I got chi in my tummy
peaceFebruary 5, 2008 at 8:54 am #27382
hmmmmm….February 5, 2008 at 11:27 am #27384
I have been pondering similar things. My experiences are similar to spongebobs in that, I’m sure like most people I have good chi days and bad chi days. I know that on bad chi days when I feel disconnected from my inner resources many hours of practice would still not really get things going (I know, I’ve tried!). However, on the good chi days, 5-10 mins of simple practice gets me to quite a deep level, with each part of the practice unfolding sequentially.
I think there are two things going on here for me. First, regular practice is important in the beginning in order to open the channels and overcome all the internal inertia and grot that we have accumulated through our lives. This takes us to place where we are in a strong relationship with the chi field which can then inform the unfoldment of our practice and even advance us to the next level if we are ready and open to it. This can be a self-sustaining process.
The second point is that regular practice at any level of accomplishment is still important as helps us maintain and deepen this internal relationship. However, I now know to only engage my practice when I feel my chi field come online. As I mentioned at the beginning, trying to get it to come online can be frustrating and often disappointing.
I wonder if anyone else has experiences like this.
LFebruary 7, 2008 at 6:15 am #27386
Great question, thorny, the kind I expect from a wily coyote.
and lots of great answers.
I think it comes down to the question, what is the difference between “practice” and “spontaneous experience”?
the former seems to imply some level of intention/personal will. Yet the very purpose of intentional qigong and neidangong practce is to cultivate spontaneity or wu wei in our life. Is this a contradiction?
Bottom line: in my experience spontaneity happens at the higher level if your level of intention is higher and your energy body more cultivated. The foundation of your energy body, your vessel, becomes more powerful and refined over time. No different than a musician practicing for hours or years in order to spontaneously produce a great concert that might be his/her lifetime achievement. In this case, we may be aiming for a multi-dimensional or multi-lifetime achievement, that some call immortality. But principle is no different.
I feel spontaneity is just a yin-yang play between different levels of Self, that are experiencing the Life Force field at different levels. But they need to communicate their process. so the more dense level of self surrenders to a faster vibrating level of self. As we feel the shift at the lesser physical level we call it spontaneous, but we may be unaware of the intention happening at the deeper level of self.
Effectively our soul (ling) may be holding the intention, by wanting to express something via our body or heart-mind (xin). But the lesser self experiences the “soul practicing on its physical self” as a spontaneous experience.
Its not so much aabout “willing the change”, as opening one’s will to change and creating a strong vessel to hold the change that arises when we are open to communicating with infinite levels of the Life Force.
The end of this process is to live spontaneously in many dimensions of Self, with our cauldron becoming the Life Force itself. But “humanity” is a vessel in and of itself that will always have a boundary or vessel to contain its creative experience with the life force. Humans will thus always have a “will” or “intention” to continue creating- if it loses that it effectively ceases to exist. Some folks might think that is a good thing (certain Buddhists care to comment?), but its not my value.
Evolution in my view is simply our ability to create more spontaneously, at ever higher levels of harmony and balance. We will always be “practicing” and always be spontaneously transcending the limits of that practice.
May your Cauldron Never Crack – just expand and contract with the flow of chi,
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