October 15, 2006 at 1:01 am #18637
and screaming at the followers that there is no God.
To Intelligence/Digdug – here is 50c – go call someone who cares. I don’t know what your issues are (and i would find it difficult to care less) and I don’t understand how you feel you have some right or authority to insult ppl but you can rest assured that your presence in my existence is extremely tiny – to the point of non-existence.
I would suggest to anyone who tries to have meaningful conversations with either that it is energy better used on pretty much anything else! Let them go. Compassion can only go so far.
They don’t have it. They don’t get it. They certainly don’t respect it. (Let them ponder what “it” might be!) Maybe one day they will but I don’t think they will learn it on this message board.
Keep smiling 🙂
EmelgeeOctober 15, 2006 at 3:04 am #18638
Give not expecting in return. Give because you have so much, you have found unlimmited treasure. You give becuase it is what you do. But of course there is always a return. Becuase when you accept you feel it. The life force lets them be as they choose. This does not mean you do not let them know where you stand, or you do not have standards for this forum. In short try not to take it so personaly. Fear not they can not harm you over the forum unless you let them. If a smelly bum walking on the street comes up to you and your friends and says “you guys are smelly evil elfs” I assume you would have a laugh and move on. But lets say its your prom you come down stairs and your dad says “you look like a slut”. I would assume this would not make you feel all that great. Both are just opinions one no more valid then the other. The power lies with you. Those who control the symbols control the people, because poeple put power in symbols.
If you read there stuff and feel resistance, great you have an opportunity for acceptance.
Peace be with you.October 15, 2006 at 3:32 am #18640
I have no problem with different views but did you miss the not so subtle reference to walking into someone’s church and screaming there is no God? That isn’t offering a differing opinion in any kind of constructive manner.
It is funny that when someone else is being a jerk – the response is often to look within yourself at your reaction and that definitely has merit (it is something I do often in daily life) – but sometimes a person is just being a jerk and after you have looked into yourself enough times you realise that you can’t go any further with that because the external cause isn’t changing (i.e. the jerk). So you (or I or anyone else) grow a little and move on from that.
I am not going to *ask* to be treated with respect – I demand it. There is no resistance on my part. It simply boils down to basic courtesy.
If they can’t give it, they won’t receive it.
To moving on.
Emelgee.October 15, 2006 at 8:59 am #18642
Hey Emelgee, my answer to this is on the philosophy thread – see post traumatic shock syndrome…October 15, 2006 at 9:31 am #18644
but in this particular instance I just do not believe that coddling or letting the poor behaviour continue without respite is going to help anyone.
E.October 15, 2006 at 4:16 pm #18646
This issue has come up enough times for me lately to have recognized it as a major personal learning lesson. For me, Emelgee, I do not want to have to demand other people’s respect in order to feel OK. I am learning that when people act jerky and I have a poor reaction to them then I am somehow choosing to be moved off center by them. I maybe doing this unconsciously or partly consciously but it is still me doing it to me. The anger I feel may have a lot to do with the feeling of grief from being rejected, the loss of the potential comradery that could have been. But as long as I have any little tendency to get swayed from being alright with who I am inside of me the Universe is going to get others to sock it to me until I see through my dilemma. The greater my commitment to my own freedom, the harder and faster these things pelt me until I let go of my defensiveness.
The ideal response in these situations, once the issue is steamed out of you, is to go into immediate forgiveness and acceptance without having a personal reaction. I posted a huna technique awhile ago that describes it. It is based on the idea that absolutely everything “out there” is part of us and that we are ultimately responsible for it and can effectively work with the negative reflection if we can own it and forgive it. This is a tall order, but I know it is doable.
Next in line after the ultimate is to have my feelings and create as much space as I can between me and my normal reaction without trying to stop the feelings, but going into and under them so I can be with what is underneath.
In the case here that started this healthy dialogue between us, the two jerks in question ridiculed me and I felt bad. This gives me the opportunity to descend into myself at the level of that old pain and do something about it as it lives in my subconscious. Sometimes this kind of action actually changes things that are happening in the outer world and sometimes it just frees you from the normal reaction when and if it comes to you again.
So in a sense I an grateful for their behavior cause I can free myself further through it, while still feeling appreciation for your words of reprimand to them. I think it is important to come forward with what one feels is appropriate to establish balance in any given situation. Here, Wendy wants to nurture them to help them grow and you want to discipline them. It’s all part of the dynamic.
Ultimately, I believe that balance is best created when nothing is done about a situation at all and all our attention is focused on the state we want to experience instead. (In fact, when we are really above it all and have no connection to a “problem” we do not even see one there.) Between that and where we are at the moment lies any transmutation we have to do.
And I feel that’s necessary because what energy do we want to create? Do we want to close down against them because they piss us off, or do we want to stay intact and hold our smile in the face of their ignorance and immaturity?
Love to All, AlexanderOctober 16, 2006 at 12:23 am #18648
The thing is – by acknowledging that their immaturity annoys me – it doesn’t mean I am off centre. It means I recognise the annoyance and acknowledge it and I can do both of these things without losing my smile!
Anyway – I move back to silence now.
E.October 16, 2006 at 3:38 am #18650
“The thing is – by acknowledging that their immaturity annoys me – it doesn’t mean I am off centre. It means I recognise the annoyance and acknowledge it and I can do both of these things without losing my smile!”
I believe that when we are centered we cannot be annoyed. I think you felt annoyed and were aware of it and call that being centered.
-AOctober 16, 2006 at 11:27 am #18652
Alex wrote “I believe that when we are centered we cannot be annoyed. I think you felt annoyed and were aware of it and call that being centered.”
I believe that we often hide in some sense of being centered, and miss out on the ups and downs of later heaven. I believe that our big job is to open the communication between later heaven and the primordial. If we aren’t aware of all of the pain and beauty in this world, in all of its exquisite detail, then we are not really opening up the communication.
So, I side more with Emelgee on this – we grow most when we can name and describe the experience.
ChrisOctober 16, 2006 at 11:34 am #18654
🙂 This kind of communication from one microcosm to the other is a little tricky. I am pretty shure you missed alot of my points but thats ok. I assume you practice healing tao methods, if you take those principals of relationship and apply them to the outside world they work there to. As above so below. It is just harder on the outside world because of all the fear. Hopefully though imortals will not worry so much about death.
peace be with youOctober 16, 2006 at 4:33 pm #18656
If you truly wish peace upon the members of this board then I suggest you contribute large minded and constructive comments rather than insults.October 16, 2006 at 4:36 pm #18658
My comment comes from an ideal viewpoint of what “centered” means. In my experience to be truly centered means that we can see what is going on around us but there is no “hook,” nothing for the ego to catch on, no issue to react to. The feelings within centeredness are basically neutrality and peace. One is unmoved, meaning not moved from the center. “Centered” in daoism implies coming from the central/core channel – being one with yuan/source chi which is neutral and unconditional.
V-“I believe that we often hide in some sense of being centered, and miss out on the ups and downs of later heaven.”
I do not believe there is such a thing as “sense of being centered.” You either are or you’re not. To encounter a situation in which you are in any way affected by what is going on is not pure centeredness and involves a kind of balancing act between getting pulled off center by the issue/circumstances and pulled on center by your natural/developed balance. To be truly centered does not mean you are not aware of things in later heaven. You are just not affected by them.
This is actually part of the definition of immortality. An immortal is not affecetd by heat or cold or the emotions. This is part of what total freedom means. You direct the course of your life. The circumstances do not.
V-“I believe that our big job is to open the communication between later heaven and the primordial.”
I agree. To develop this relationship with lifeforce and dao and to let go of all within us that is not love and therefore cannot become immortal.
Blessings, AlexanderOctober 16, 2006 at 4:48 pm #18660
Everyobody has to come from where they are and learn from that. I could just as easily cite you for judging, though your comment has validity. We can say what we want to see happen and a lot of times that comes off as a “should.” We all have issues and there is pain inside them. Our conversation here helps to reveal where the pain is and treat it as long as we don’t get indulgent. It’s a learning process.
Best, AlexanderOctober 16, 2006 at 7:42 pm #18662
Thanks for elaborating on your thoughts. I still disagree, based on where I am with my experience. I’ll elaborate a bit on my perspective.
Alex: “”Centered” in daoism implies coming from the central/core channel – being one with yuan/source chi which is neutral and unconditional.”
This statement of yours gets to the core of what I disagree with. You here present
“being” in a self-centered way, as a flow from center out, from primordial to later heaven.
I think there is a return flow that always fucks with you, which is the communication from later heaven to primordial. This is us in our role of conduit. There is always something new to experience, some new twist on things, that catches us.
If we stay in our center, we never fully open to the mess of later heaven. For me, the position is not to stay in a “neutral” center, but to embody the whole range, from high to low, from rage to love, from revulsion to desire…and deep centeredness.
Anyways, that is just how it is for me now. In sometime it will change.
ChrisOctober 16, 2006 at 11:09 pm #18664
We are all responsible for our own peace. In fact we carry the key to it, and this can never be taken away. I hope and pray for peace on earth, and I try the best I can to accept what that might mean. I will say my responces have not been done with full energy I have been working 12 hour shifts. I understand the limitation of communicating on this forum or writing in general, I am not that great at writing to begin with. I will try to make my piont again I do this not because I am stuck on you getting it I am not responsible for you. I do this because I try my best to ask people to accept them selves, and each other, to take care of them selfs. I try my best not for you or anyone else I try my best for me and my own peace. MOre later I am tired
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