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Alve’s book looks interesting, I don’t have a copy of it, though so the discussion on it will have to wait. Here is a background on one of the founders of the Quanzhen sect (from a british site), and their inclusion of buddhist aspects.
The Teachings of Wang Chongyang
Wang embraced many of what he considered the better aspects of the three teachings which dominated Chinas religious followings at the time Daoism, Buddhism, and Confucianism and incorporated them into the Quanzhen school. He moved away from the elaborate ceremonies, the writing of talismans, and the intricate visualisations that were central to the old Daoist traditions and put a greater emphasis on self cultivation through the practice of quiet sitting meditation. He identified closely with the simplicity and naturalness in Laozis Daode jing, as well as Zhuangzis teachings of spontaneity and non interference (wu wei). There are several other texts considered important in the Quanzhen school and these include the Clear and Tranquil Classic, the Yin Convergence Classic, and the Jade Emperors Mind Seal Classic.The elements he took from Buddhism included their approach to karma and rebirth and, in particular, the Chan (Zen) teachings of the Heart Sutra and the Diamond Sutra. He also had great respect for the teachings of Confucius and encouraged his followers to study the Classic of Filial Piety, to help others, and do good deeds whenever they could. Wang considered the golden elixir to be our true nature. He said that helping others and being clear and tranquil contributes to developing this elixir. He advised that people wishing to cultivate their true nature should not seek fame, wealth, or profit, should eliminate worry and anger, and should abstain from sex, alcohol, and strong smelling vegetables (onion, garlic, etc.) He left behind fifteen principles for following the Dao which form the basis of the Quanzhen teachings.
Hi:
In the time of Wang, almost all serious seekers studied all three of the spiritual/philosophies. Its interesting, Wang was an alcholic and claims to have met immortals, he was against sex and more of the monastic approach.
The alchemsts of the past were hermits, in isolation. Even the one’s today seem to be social hermits.
bagua
The Teachings of Wang Chongyang
Wang embraced many of what he considered the better aspects of the three teachings which dominated Chinas religious followings at the time Daoism, Buddhism, and Confucianism and incorporated them into the Quanzhen school. He moved away from the elaborate ceremonies, the writing of talismans, and the intricate visualisations that were central to the old Daoist traditions and put a greater emphasis on self cultivation through the practice of quiet sitting meditation. He identified closely with the simplicity and naturalness in Laozis Daode jing, as well as Zhuangzis teachings of spontaneity and non interference (wu wei). There are several other texts considered important in the Quanzhen school and these include the Clear and Tranquil Classic, the Yin Convergence Classic, and the Jade Emperors Mind Seal Classic.The elements he took from Buddhism included their approach to karma and rebirth and, in particular, the Chan (Zen) teachings of the Heart Sutra and the Diamond Sutra. He also had great respect for the teachings of Confucius and encouraged his followers to study the Classic of Filial Piety, to help others, and do good deeds whenever they could. Wang considered the golden elixir to be our true nature. He said that helping others and being clear and tranquil contributes to developing this elixir. He advised that people wishing to cultivate their true nature should not seek fame, wealth, or profit, should eliminate worry and anger, and should abstain from sex, alcohol, and strong smelling vegetables (onion, garlic, etc.) He left behind fifteen principles for following the Dao which form the basis of the Quanzhen teachings.
Bagua,
Did you pick up that biographical tidbit from the Handbook for Daoist practice? I don’t recall reading it in there.
mnote to other readers: don’t ask “what handbook?”, its privately printed, but I will be offering it for sale shortly once I get it on the website.
Hi MW:
Yes its listed in that set of books.
Also, many references on internet, one is below.
The common story is he met two immortals at a pub, which he frequented often. I think one can be open to hearing these stories of people’s lives, but should not blindly believe them.
http://www.eng.taoism.org.hk/general-daoism/eminent-philosophers&accomplished-daoists/pg1-4-26-5.asp
regards,
bagua
“Fond of pubs” is not exactly hard core alcoholic. That story there is a rip off of Lu Dong Bing story of meeting Chang Li Chuan in a pub and getting the teachings. Trying to make him seem like a replay of Lu Dong Bin. I think a more accurate account has him in the middle of a field and he sees some being of Light….
That article was edited by David Palmer, a Canadian scholar who came to the mountain parts of my last China Dream Trip in 2004 and is coming back for more this May. David tells me some of the scholarship on that site was done rather hastily (on a pay per word basis) so not to rely conclusively on it. And of course, many of the Chinese “Daosit scholars” were raised in an academic atmosphere of marxist-leninist historical analysis and so find it difficult to go really deep into the topic.
David and Elijah Siegler are publishing their study of my last Dream Trip under the topic of “Influence of Western Daoists on Chinese Daoists”. He’s presenting the paper at a Harvard conference this summer.
Will let you know when it comes out…..
m>>”In the time of Wang, almost all serious seekers studied all three of the spiritual/philosophies.”
I think your personal bias comes out in this statement, and in the Tang and Song dynasties, as it is now, incorporating buddhism and confucianism was probably a case of personal preference.
Although Wang Zhe (Chongyang) chose to incorporate these other streams of practice, It appears that the tradition of alchemy from the Immortals Lu Dong Bin and Zhongli Quan clearly place an emphasis on inner alchemical practice of the five elements, and water and fire. These two figures (Zhong-Lu) also had a large influence on the meditative practices of practitioners who later formed Quanzhen.
See book “The Tao of Health, Longevity and Immortality” translated by Eva Wong.
Hi:
Its not my personal bias, its from reading many books on the history of taoism and china. Your bias rings loud as you need to express your opinion.
Eva basically translates books, reveals very little about the method and has no progressive thinking on tao alchemy.
Whether those “immortals” ever lived I do not know and I dont think anybody really knows, just like most cultures the Chinese culture is filled with legends, myths, exageration, etc. So I think it is fair to ask if you talk about these people dont speak as if it is a fact, that they lived. If you want to beleive they do that it is your choice, but you talk like it is a fact.
thanks,
bagua
We all have our biases, I think it is fair to acknowledge and express that, and see them for what they are.
Whether or not Lu Dong Bin or Zhongli Quan actually lived is something to think about, and apparently there is some evidence for their existence as real people, seeing as there are texts attributed to them during the time period they were said to have lived. Many texts were attributed to immortals often after they lived, at least these are accurate in timeframe.
Whether you believe their writings is your personal preference; why can’t I say it if you are expressing your interpretation of Lao Zi’s writings as fact?
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