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I don’t know about Michael’s Kan & Li and how it differs from Mantak Chia’s one but i want to ask anyone who does it, why do they do it?
What is the point? To me the feeling i got from kan & li was the same as iron shirt III nomatter how many couldrens there were, yet it needed alot more maintenance through meditation to be able to do it well. I could feel a strong thumping where it is boiling and lots of energy comming out but the energy seemed the same quality as iron shirt III.
Apart from this anyhow how much energy do you need, i think it seems overkill. If you need this much energy to open blockages shouldn’t you be relaxing more so the body is softened, not being forced open by sheer power?
One thing that did happen is when i condensed all the steam into a dot i could move the dot to accupuncture points and it would cause muscles to twitch, a bit like some electricity going through there but it did nothing to heal where it was twitching. I guess it was another experience that is all.
I rekon i’m almost to the point where i’ve had enough of HT, it’s fun but it’s very up and down. I think just being in the moment, the now or wuwei is the best for healing. And i don’t think you need 7 formulas for that, you only need one. And like seriously, what is with the explaination of especially the 6th and 7th formulas here? (http://www.healingdao.com/tao_alchemy_formulas.html) Its enough to make even the most enlightened budda confused. I think it is all much simpler than that, to me it seems like the explainations are something to make some yearn for more, but there is no more, there is only what is and always was. It seems like just putting up more barriers so that you need to go even further to break through them. Creating work for work’s sake. All this stuff is not necessary, it is really very simple. To me the more you’re doing this and that with the energy the further you’re getting from the whole point of it.
Anyhow i think it can be seen a bit like a drug where your body is like a tool and you are just tinkering with it. It gives you a hunger for power, but how much power can your body take? Sure you can heat up the yin in your body for extra energy but that yin needs to be replaced or you dry out. One thing you can’t do (let me know if anybody has) is use energy to make yourself go to sleep, thats something that has to do it’s self.
It opened my mind up to the power of creating mental containers and the power of your mind, etc but it’s all a bit far out there. I think it’s better to put your attention on being aware of what is around you, at least you can see connections between things in the physical world, things that you can use.
Like it can be fun to be caught up in all the energy and stuff but it is all really quiet useless. Inner smile and healing sounds has got to be the best techniques of the lot along with some knowledge of TCM.
no empty statement..
there are IMHO clearly 2 different ways the formulas work..
1) in deep prolonged sessions away from everything where “contact” with other energy systems occurs
2) brief frequent biological levels which accrue over timethe first is not something that would be an everyday experience in the same way an intense psychedelic voyage is not…
the second is a real process which opens up psychic pathways over time
the only difference is frequency and intensity
anyone should clearly be able to see form brief exercise with fusion kan and li levels that the pathways are real…
IMHO it basically comes down at some point to the intensity of spiritual contact with seemingly external celestial bodies
this idea being that the higher second and third cauldrons link to celestial levels
this would be the first more intense form above
but the second lighter form of say, brain twirling is obvious…
this is the Enochian level freqently mention by myself here..the lower formulas work so much more efficiently after going ahad and doing the basic kan and li even up through greatest and star alchemy…
their are real benefits… direct psychic cognition, dance, sexual chemistry, ending of destructive diet/smoking etc
they really do work
I don’t know Mantak Chia’s method of teaching Kan & Li, his books confuse me, probably a language/cultural barrier so I’ve never pursued his teachings. However I know he has real, solid info that he taught to Michael Winn. I understand Michael, he speaks my “language” & has translated Mantak Chia’s work for me. It does work, it may seem complex while learning the method but after learning it seems very simple. It leads to real transformation, inner & outer.
Have you learned from Mantak Chia in person or homestudy or from his books? I don’t think you can realy learn the practice from a book.these are just NOT north american spirits
in fact, nothing is north american because everyone transplanted just in time to trash everything
Is the publisher approving that these books by Mantak Chia are available here?
This is very important to notice.
The main teachers or allies might not be human at all.
Even some teachings about spirits or geomancy are for present situation quite flawed, these can still be used to engage various entities.
HOWDY
MMmmm i did everything from books pretty much.
I have had a taichi and qigong teacher but i think really… the books where a great point in the right direction, what i learnt through my own practice is the main part. Seeing, testing, playing around for myself. But it ends up just being a distraction i think, pushing further and further, more and more intense experiences it’s easy to get caught up in it. Like it can expand your awareness but to get to infinity you could go there from the very beginning without doing it step by step. With lower practices they have actual useful applications but kan and li doesn’t seem to have much to offer.
You just gotta get in that sweet spot, everything does it’s self. Like it sure is fun doing all the practices when they’re new and i felt like a bit of a sorcerer (haha i love fantasy!) and the energy is a thrill but i think i’m just over it a bit now.
I managed to continue with weekend smoking and drinking through my whole practice hehe 🙂
On the feasts of saints and on all solemn festivals let the night office be performed as we said it should be done on Sunday; except that the psalms, the antiphons, and the lessons proper for that day be said; but let the number above mentioned be maintained.
-THE HOLY RULE OF ST. BENEDICT, tr. by Rev. Boniface Verheyen, OSB of St. Benedict’s Abbey, Atchison, KansasI theorize that the present God or gods were not the creators. They took over something already created and are using it for their own purposes, which is not at all to our advantage.
To put it country simple: the Christian God exists. He is not the Creator. He stole someone else’s work after the manner of his parasitic species. He steals and curses the source. The Christian God, and that goes for Allah, is a self-seeking asshole planning to cross us all up. Like all colonists he despises those he exploits. To him we are nothing but escape energy. He needs our energy to escape because he has none of his own. Who but an asshole wants to see people groveling in front of him?
“Like a little soldier I stand at attention before my captain,” said Pope John 23. Gawd, what shit is this? And the prayer-mewling Allah freaks is molded from the same crock of shit…
-WILLIAM S. BURROUGHS, The Cities of Red nightAnd Aaron shall place lots upon the two he goats: one lot “For the Lord,” and the other lot, “For Azazel.” And Aaron shall bring the he goat upon which the lot, “For the Lord,” came up, and designate it as a sin offering. And the he goat upon which the lot “For Azazel” came up, shall be placed while still alive, before the Lord, to [initiate] atonement upon it, and to send it away to Azazel, into the desert.
—LEVITICUS, 16:8–10What does this mean?
I am at least quite mystified.
HOWDY
Ps. I think to make energy formulas work so that they make some difference important is to first of all to be able to immobilize body totally. To be able to do that has various requirements. For example right kind of breathing techniques could help, but those really can be dangerous. But it seems that Taoists mainly rely for having immense amount of time to cool the the body down.
I can’t speak for Kan & Li because I’m not there yet, but I can speak for learning from the books. Almost all of the practices I have learned came from Chia’s books initially. I have been able to implement them successfully for the most part (especially inner smile, 6 sounds, MO). This has been followed by Michael Winn’s homestudy courses, ebooks, and dvd’s, which in every aspect has made the practices much more deeper; he reaches me on a much deeper level. I agree with QT on the language barrier, and MW has developed his teachings to basically translate for the western mind which is much different than the Chinese mind/culture/etc. Chia’s works are also very yang and mind driven, in which MW has added qigong forms to correspond to each step along the way, which I have found very helpful and allow the energy to flow on its own rather than “forcing it” with your mind. I actually stopped doing sitting meditation for a long time and found that movement and standing meditation was very helpful.
For what it’s worth…my 2 cents…
Seems to me that you have already made up your mind,
and you are simply hoping others will agree with you.
This is clear not only from your first post in this thread,
but your lack of openness to the experiences of others
who responded to you.To be able to grow, means being flexible and open to new ideas.
With rigidity of mind, there is no growth.S
Yeah you’re right i had made up my mind. I was after putting my idea across and wanting somebody to change my mind back. People make good points but i’m still of the same mind. HT has helped me immensely for many years and i still enjoy it, i just think in someways it can hinder further development somehow because you’re always on the same course with the energy when really it’s just a small aspect.
Like you said…
To be able to grow, means being flexible and open to new ideas.
With rigidity of mind, there is no growth.And this is exactly my point. Ideas outside of energy cultivation, or even outside of other’s ideas of energy cultivation. Following Michael Winns program means you can only reach MW’s level, following Chia’s program means you can only reach his level. It’s not even about level, it’s about breadth. Only by being flexible and open to new things all around you and learning from your environment, your own light and creating your OWN PROGRAM is there growth. And growth in this way happens at an exponential rate.
This is one reason why i don’t believe that you need a teacher to learn qigong. To learn MCO, inner smile, iron shirt and healing sounds, ok yes it can speed up things at the beginning but only to become like the teacher. I don’t want to be like MW or Chia. People can try to help but only you can find yourself.
In my opinion people that insist that you need a teacher in the form of a person don’t know. I say let your life be your teacher. I know that involves people too but for how many years can you follow a single person.
I read somewhere on this website that MW doesn’t teach circus tricks like lighting paper on fire or warming coins etc. I don’t think they are circus tricks, they are either illusions or demonstrations of deep levels of mastery of chi. If you believe they are not just illusions and that they are real demonstrations of chi i don’t think you should just be calling them circus tricks because nobody at the circus can do them. Although they are impressive, i think anyone who strives for these goals by meditating for hours on end are silly for i can buy a lighter at the service station for the money i make in 5 minutes at work. It would even be more efficient to rub two sticks together to make a fire.
I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind because what anyone thinks is up to them, however speaking my mind in forums like this with wise people like yourselves helps me to better understand my own thoughts.
I have no doubt that the pathways are real.
You say the only difference is frequency and intensity.
I find higher frequency energy has less pushing power, and for opening pathways i find denser and lower frequency energy better. It can open the way, while i guess mmm the high frequency energy can show you the way. I understand intuition comes from high frequency energy but intuition just comes to you, you can’t control it the same way you do with energy, can you? Perhaps my development with spiritual energy is not so advanced as it is with fusion (although i did alot of fusion planet stuff too a while back) and earth energy. But i feel that what i got in fusion was kan and li, the same. Kan and li was just a simpler way of getting to the same point. 2 instead of 5. I feel i can’t ‘use’ the high frequency energy, it uses me. You sound like you’ve done a bit of practice so i’m keen to hear your thoughts on this… Can you use this contact of external celestial bodies for anything? Is widening the link of any benefit? If an individual can’t use it anyhow isn’t widening the link just opening the door to giving up?
I suppose when i was seeking it and connected with it most i could go to the spiritual and look/experience and come back down but it’s easy to get lost up there and it starts to pull you that way so you stay there all day long. I felt like i was losing myself. Perhaps i don’t want to be shown the way, i want to find the way thats why i never developed it as much as the other parts? I don’t want to lose deep roots within nature for the sake of the spirit. The spirit is IN nature, it is the dot of white in the black in the yinyang, we can enjoy it there where it is not overpowering. The spirit will always be there but we won’t always live this life. Even sometimes when i move my consioussness to the spiritual i feel it is a copout, and escape. It provides relief sometimes but nature can show you the way too.
I guess thats why people followed different demigods, it’s what suited them. Power comes from focus, awareness out and consiousness in. That’s probably the most important thing i learnt from HT. Being aware of the one god but still keeping control of your focus. There comes a huge source of power.
Have you ever practiced in a darkness environment? In the kan & li book it says it is similar to a DMT experience. That would be something different and impressive i guess. I wonder if it requires you to do kan & li or any meditation will do.
Thanks for your replies
I would assume that this is not approved by the publisher, but I can’t do ebooks on screen anyway. I have used that site to skim over books that I either later purchased or still plan to purchase.
I have to say that you can learn a lot from the books as I have been pretty succesful myself. But the local HT Cincy Instructor (whom I have not yet met nor taken classes from) once told me (via email) that eventually you need to work with an instructor to really “get it.”
I recall reading on the AlchemicalTaoism.com website (which is no longer up, was put together by HT refugees that started up TaoBums.com): trying to do alchemy without an instructor is like trying to light a fire with a match.
I personally think in some very rare cases personal instruction is not needed at all, but still having material like books, where enough mechanics of practice is described, can of course immensely make situation easier. In such a situation instead of picking one system one makes comparative study of several different ones.
Very important seemingly is time factor.
One must have enough freedom from harmful or disturbing external (or seemingly (for example Castaneda’s Predator=>) from outside arriving but psychic or energetic realm) influences.
So if one knows something from which to start one can start making experiments.
Why human instructor is not necessary needed is quite rare case when one really can’t take any ready made system necessarily because contact with ‘inhuman instructor(s)’ is in such a special way established.
HOWDY
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