April 5, 2006 at 6:04 pm #12401
I just wanted to address this point because Jernej brought it up. Since I started practicing qigong, or rather Tibetan Tantra first, I had never really blew my load (only up my spine) so I don’t know about the effects on the dantian.
Personally, at first I practiced Tibetan Tumo and was used to feeling intense burning feelings in my lower dantian in my intestines. It was very hot and blissful. I’m guessing that the dantian’s fire moves downward to warm the seminal fluid, which creates that aroused hot feeling and the dantian weakens. Even in Brahmacharya, disciples must not even have a thought of anything sexual as this would weaken their fire because it moves downward to the genital area.
So I thought maybe someone might have some experiences to share with this, because I’m curious if this is what happens. I have never experienced weakening of my dantian, it only kept getting stronger and stronger. Does the cool water in the “external kidneys”(genitals) become warm and dantian becomes weaker after ejaculating? And what kind of sensations do you experience in your dantian now?
FajinApril 5, 2006 at 8:46 pm #12402
I have wondered about the relationship between the kan and li practices of Taoism and the tummo practice of the six yogas. I have limited experience with both and am planning on studying the lesser kan and li this summer. I know that others have had some experience with both traditions on this site and I welcome their input on this topic.
In the Indian yogic system they have a practice called candali (also called the inner homa in some cases) which blazes and integrates the elements at the level of manipura chakra. This practice works with the five main prana of the body and dissolves them in the central channel at this junction point. The two main ones that are brought together are Prana vayu and Apana vayu. Prana vayu is upward moving and Apana vayu is naturally downward moving. Their natural movements are reversed and they are fused at the navel chakra. This fusion is said to ignite the inner fire and arose the latent vital energies of kundalini which are then used to purify the nadis and create a clear vessel or astral body. The tibetan tummo works much on the same process with the five vayus, yet they use a different chakra system. They still yoke the five pranas at the navel, however.(If anyone can offer insights on why their chakra system is set the way they have it, I would welcoem the discussion.) I have met practitioners that have attempted the tummo by learning it from books, and have fried themselves. It was as if they burnt up their jing. In some cases it was like they sucked it right out of their bones and now have rheumatoid disorders. I have wondered what has been left out of the books and how the ngondro serves to prepare the student for this practice. I have worked through about 3/5 ths of the ngondro and am curious about other practitioners’ experience that are working both systems. Thanks for asking the initial question, PemaApril 5, 2006 at 9:17 pm #12404
Thank you for your reply, it was very interesting. I learned Tumo from my Tibetan Lion’s Roar teacher, not a book. Tumo can be very simple and doesn’t have to be very complicated. One just needs to actualize the same feeling of putting his finger on a burning candle without pain, just the very hot, blissful sensation and expand on it at the level of dantian. Just doing this will really warm you. Of course, one first needs to open the central channel or the microcosmic orbit before he begins this, as it could be very dangerous.
Many masters of the past had a very powerful dantian without practicing Tumo and could perform extraordinary feats much like Tumo practitioners. For example, Zhang, Sanfeng could melt the snow around him. The Japanese sit under waterfalls as a measurement of how powerful the dantian is. The dantian is the body’s center of gravity and thermostat.
I guess that in the heart-kidney relaitionship, the heart warms the kidneys, and the excess heat the kidneys is brought to the dantian. I think that this heat escapes the kidneys and moves to warm the genitals when aroused and this makes the dantian sensation weaker. Bagua thinks that inner alchemy is intensifying the natural processes in the body. This seems like what Tumo can do. The dantian keeps getting warmer and warmer as the kidneys keep getting warmer and warmer and practicing Tumo somehow gets more heat in the dantian. I think it might be related to the air element from breathing as it cariies fire. While earth carries water.
It’s interesting how you pointed out how some practitioners have fried there jing. It’s as if the kidneys have gotten to hot and have been burnt out. I don’t really have a problem with this because I just bring in cool water qi through my feet via yongquan points and that cools the kidneys down. So, I guess it’s good to mix fire and water in the dantian for a unique sensation of water qi and fire qi. Not good to go to extremes.
It would be good to hear others experiences of ejaculation and dantian sensations.
FajinApril 8, 2006 at 2:26 am #12406
Just my 2 cents, as both of you have pretty unusual extensive training..
ime, the nexus of the energetic centers and the central channel – what is felt as the “still place” in the deep-center of the centers – is a gateway to non-dual states, by means of sustained concentration. The blending of energies is just a precursor that assists in stabalizing the energy prior to resolution into non-duality. Practicing that resolution within the deep-center/s is the skillful means to unifying (reversed) individual energetics with Non-Dual Nature. Which, seems to me, is the point of cultivation.
TrunkApril 8, 2006 at 1:46 pm #12408
So you mean that blending water and fire, for example, is a stabilization of energies for non-dual states. What do you mean by non-dual states? Wondering if you can possibly clarify this further. Also, unifying individual energetics with non-duality as being the point of cultivation is interesting. Maybe you can go furter with this? Thanks.
FajinApril 8, 2006 at 2:37 pm #12410
f> So you mean that blending water and fire, for example, is a stabilization of energies for non-dual states. >
There are steps.
First you blend the energies. The blended energy is more stable. (Its also more nurturing and pure and so assists health, well being, allows channels to open easier, etc.) But that it is more stable makes the stillness practices easier.
Next you resolve the energetics into non-duality. Non-duality means The One Thing, means that things aren’t chopped up into pieces, that inside/outside gets resolved. Remember the Tao can’t be named? That’s cause its not a thing, seperate from other things. So, what is Taoism about?
Go to my website. Read the “Overview” section. Then read the “Extraordinary Vessels” section, especially the parts about the central (core) vessel. Chew those things over for a while, take some time, then let’s talk again.
I’m not trying to be difficult, its just that some of these things I’ve already written. Also, I have things to get done this morning.April 8, 2006 at 2:57 pm #12412
Sorry, I knew non-dual meant yuan, don’t know why I asked ~ abscent mindedness. I sound like such a rookie sometimes! Btw, is that a picture of you in the “Jing-to-Light transformation” page? Sorry if you’re busy, read this later than.
What about accessing early haven, prenatal qi in the core vessel, does that bring non-duality better than anything in your experience? Or, does one need postnatal yang as well just as one needs water and fire?
FajinApril 8, 2006 at 3:15 pm #12414
Chong Mai/center channel is the one.
Out of the one comes Yin-Yang, Chong creates Du and Ren.
Two created four: Chong, Du, Ren, Dai
Four create eight: ching, du, ren, dai, yin qian, yang qiao, yin wei, yang wei
eight produces all things.
Alchemy follows this process…………………
baguaApril 8, 2006 at 3:23 pm #12416
How/why did Chong create du and ren? What made it do that?
FajinApril 8, 2006 at 3:42 pm #12418
Oh my Faj:
If the big bang was the initial process, did it happen step by step or simultaneously?
Chong in my presentation represents wu ji, it polarized itself, by polarizing itself, whatever the polarization creates is the expression of Wu Ji. Your alchemy attempts to trace back from all to eight, to four, to two to one/wu ji; then you realize your true nature and this is chan experience.
baguaApril 8, 2006 at 3:45 pm #12420
f> What about accessing early haven, prenatal qi in the core vessel, >
Best thing is to simply practice: employ meditative stability in the deep-center/s (core vessel) for some duration.April 8, 2006 at 3:49 pm #12422
It’s a very blissful experience. Speaking of duration, it’s like several hours pass by when only a few seconds pass by. I love it!
Simply practice on the core vessel, but still question remains what is more effective. Until another time, Trunk.
FajinApril 8, 2006 at 3:53 pm #12424
Science is still in kindergarten, just extract what it knows, not what’s theoretical.
OK, but why does Wu Ji express itself? What drives it to do so?
ThanksApril 8, 2006 at 6:03 pm #12426
Good. Go back to the linked references from this thread and review for further insight. There’s further refinement available through this method.April 8, 2006 at 6:11 pm #12428
Thanks for the reference, I read it already.
I was referring to any practice that works on the core vessel.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.