April 30, 2006 at 10:17 am #13473
Next to the back and forth of the necessity of relationships posted by Fajin, I want to bring a message from the German mystical nun Hildegard Von Bingen, who lived 1098-1179. Maybe it can shed some light on what PooHead said that women want to be in the surrounding of a practioner, while not doing the same practice: (I hope I can translate it well enough in English to make it understandable)
*The man has the mission to come to prayer, the woman IS the prayer, she receives.
The woman is the receiver, the counter being that gives a fruitfull answer.
The woman breaths in the man. She is passive en takes the man (his seed) in with great love.
The man is the Spirit that finds fullfilment and completion in the earth (the woman).
The Spirit bows towards the earth and gives fruit.
In this way man and woman become one flesh.
The woman serves the man, by doing so the man completes her.
When a woman seeks the same mystical tasks (practice) as the man she renowns (not sure about the English word) the mystery of the conception. Because the man, Spirit, needs the woman, Earth, to come to creative conception.*
I think this the core essence of the possibilities we have together, as well the core problem that we are told we are the same, yet we are not. Each, man and woman, need to understand their positions and their tasks to bring completion.
That is why Max, I can not practice like you do. Although it serves you, it can not serve me in the same way. I hope after all these years you understand me better now.
I am very sure that is why Eastern women are so attractive to some men, they have the exact energy for this because of their cultural background. They bow and receive and uplift the man in his core by doing so (speaking general and leaving the emotional garbage out of side).
Western women are too busy with their personal development and strive for recognition. They don’t want to ‘serve’ the man, they want to control him…
so war is created…April 30, 2006 at 10:35 am #13474
Interesting post, Wendy.
I have a slight disagreement (or perhaps, refinement?) to your last paragraph.
I don’t feel western women want to “control” the man – if I was to make a gross generalisation, I would say they want to negate his existence entirely.
..April 30, 2006 at 2:34 pm #13476
This was an interesting peice. Michael says that alone in relationship, we work on the ego, but a dual relationship allows us to merge soul forces which run deeper than self-ego relationship. I guess that man and woman can attain a merging of souls through their relationship. It would serve to speed self-progress because that’s what we all aim at, but I wouldn’t say that it completes us. The incompletion is of the self.
Basically, my conclusion from all this is that the love in dual relationships serves to speed our spiritual evolution by harmonizing soul forces, but the love, ie. infinite love; for self, all creation and Dao (the three Gods as I equate it) is the spiritual link for totality and universal evolution. That is the real completion.
Btw, do you still find me arrogant and narrow-minded Wendy?
Smiles from the Heart,
FajinApril 30, 2006 at 3:30 pm #13478
I gave my words many thoughts after I wrote them to you. They were on the very edge and it boggled me why I said it in that way. You don’t know me in real life, I am a gentle person. And Michael is right we probably would get along well.
Let my rephrase my ‘opinion’: you are like a strong wild horse….you can fill in for yourself what strong wild horses need to become a winner on the track (of life). Soften my words, they were not meant to harm you, they were meant to trigger you.
It is very important that people like you keep themselves open, yes they tend to become arrogant because they are so strong.
You have my love Fajin, I regret I hurt you…really.April 30, 2006 at 5:59 pm #13480
You have my love too. I’m sure we would get along well in person too, maybe that day might come, you never know.
I am the fire type in my astology, I think that Michael’s fire dragon name suits me well with my astrology and past life. Your words did trigger something in me Wendy. I wouldn’t say I was hurt by them, but they brought much confusion. That’s what made me start this relationship post.
You seem to have a deep relationship with your partner. What is your lineage? Ie. do you practice Michael’s alchemy or something else?
FajinApril 30, 2006 at 7:11 pm #13482
How fashionable ‘my lineage’ ahum, ahum, well… yes I started 14 years ago with bodywork, getting into very deep emotional shit. That is when a bodywork teacher adviced me to start with tao practice. So I did. Met Michael (very wild guess) 8 or 9 years ago, did the whole track till heaven and earth recently in September. I always applied the practice in my own way because it is a male oriented practice and I don’t find it exactly fitting with me. But Michaels approach is close enough to get the alchemy work for me. Mantak Chia is no option for me.
As a woman I breath in the teacher not his words, that is why I never practice out of books, hardly read anything, never use tapes or dvd. Life teaching is the best option or internet is a pathway to get the energy as well. Through the years I learned to connect without life contact, I connect by will. But it is nice to bath in the energy when close by, absorbing and giving back.
At 16, hardly grown up I started my relationship, first years all went okay, after 14 years the cracks showed up. He too occupied with his job, dealing with his own issues, me dealing with my emotional garbage, three little children, a job, a big farmhouse, too much… I looked for salvation outside my marriage, taking tao classes, went abroad for classes to get away from it all. Main problem: sex! I tried to convince him that he was dumping his stress from work into my lap, which I couldn’t digest any longer because of my own shit that I tried to handle. This took many years for him to understand, and took endurance from me to keep going.
He felt bad because of my complaints, thinking he was not good enough, his self confidence shrinked. I felt bad because of the not understanding of my problem, I was not taken serious. He told me I was the problem, he was all fine. That was it.
So I looked outside my marriage for other men, trying to find out if I was crazy or not. Trying to find out if there were other ‘types’ of men, not dumping. I did find something but my heart was heavy, the burden of my lies was hard to carry. I wished I had not take this burden into my grave, I felt I couldn’t have spiritual progress with lies in my heart. So my wish was heard, the lies were told and I felt incredible guilty, the pain I caused was severe. We struggled several years with it, divorcing or not. It was very difficult, but my heart told me to go on, not to give up, that the reward was behind the pain. Only because of a lot of openess from both of us, listening to each other, trying to understand the pain of the other, we dissolved the hurt we carried both, slowly. We are still healing, the new born relationship is still very fragile.
We don’t give up on each other because the love is still there, never was gone, but was covered by emotional problems. After 24 years now, we finally find a pathway in the middle. We grew very strong because of this, still growing, solo as well together. Even when we ever decide to walk our own paths, the reward of this is huge.April 30, 2006 at 7:34 pm #13484April 30, 2006 at 11:44 pm #13486
That was a thoughtful reply. You were even very open about your relationship. You must have alot of experience with relationships, something I don’t have. The community on this forum is very iteresting, with HealingDao practitioners, Chan, magick, Tibetan, martial arts (me), and perhaps others that I am yet unaware of. I asked to see how broad the range was. Very interesting, thanks!
FajinMay 1, 2006 at 6:35 am #13488
You still don’t get it…woman is here to serve man, by doing so she is completed.
I think it is very hard for a man to understand this without getting fantasies.
Look at the traditions you are speaking from, they are ALL male oriented, they serve MEN.
BTW I do meditateMay 2, 2006 at 6:04 am #13490
‘Either women try to be complete in themselves, and relate with men in a mature healthy, complete way.’
I am in a hurry, have to drive to Germany today but put some thoughts before driving off:
This is absolutely the way to be in a relationship Pietro. I had no time yesterday to complete what I wrote but driving the car I wished I said it. And you complete my unfinished words 🙂
Was it not for my (taoist) practice we would never had been succesfull in keeping the relationship going. My parnter does not practice but he is open to what I share. He changed from a angry bull (not even a wild horse Fajin) into a wise man. He ‘rules’ over 6 women in our house, 3 teenage daughters, a wife, a woman friend with her teenage daughter and he is the wise king in this private universe. His wisdom comes from his openess to listen to what his wife and daughters tell him, reflect to him. Because of his strength he has the tendancy to rule from that and wiping everything away along the way. Hurting people because of his power. But he learned to keep his eyes and ears wide open and make changes so we are able to live with him in harmony, not in war.
All my practice and experiences changed my view, my insights, my way of being with a person because of a deep understanding.
Of course it can not be not for Western women (we can not turn back time, we progress forward) to go back to the very traditional role BUT in that traditional way of living there are many very good and wise things.
Very simple etiquette rules, especially the male-female ones, how simple yet so profound. I figured I start a class in ‘wisdom etiquette’, how to handle with each other 🙂
And yes we could have like a ‘relationship-web’ but I figured it would be best to start with my marriage first…. but I believe firmly we can have very nice and deep relationships with many more people.
But have to run now, later… nice day Pietro, tender wishes 🙂May 6, 2006 at 7:24 am #13492
it is an easy practice to develop
to read the ching state
to read their pattern of sexual activity
of a male’s face:
all what you are you can read on others
and many men are depleted
in such situation
the only way for a woman to create
is to muster great strenght
conjure the family it wants to birth
by HER will
in doing so going out of her nature
in doing so breaking the already broken balls of her mate
this is the way of matriarchy
modern males are still strong enough
not to be eaten alive after consumationMay 20, 2006 at 1:59 pm #13494
“l’uomo conduce e la donna stupisce.”
“Man drives (conducts/guides) and the woman surprises.”
I wonder how many people will read this message, since it is already buried.
PietroMay 20, 2006 at 2:13 pm #13496
I do 😉
as the i tjing states: ‘man rules on the outside, woman on the inside…’
many things here are profound, I like to chew on some of it before entering a new one, but that is how it is on a forum, sometimes too much discussion, too much fighting, who is right and who is not so right. Yet when people come to agreement they let go completely instead of deepening the opportunity, but then it is no longer a battle field and people loose interest…at least most men do 🙂
btw very nice poem way back up there….
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