June 10, 2007 at 1:00 pm #22583
I understand that i’m mixing/matching models that don’t necessarily correlate, but I’d be interested in thoughts on the diff (if any) of practicing microcosmic orbit with kundalini energy, as opposed to with less charged forms of chi.June 10, 2007 at 2:40 pm #22584
I am curious what you mean by the kundalini energy, as different from chi with other charges.
I think of kundalini in terms of its direction, going from the base chakra up into the heavens. The microcosmic has been described as having that and the reverse flow – from the heavens (as they enter the crown) to the base – and is thus a more embodied and stable form.
It sounds like you have practice kundalini, and so I am interested in hearing your experience, which should be much more interesting than my second-hand theory!June 10, 2007 at 3:02 pm #22586
I don’t practice kundalini, it sort of practiced me. Since it awakened, I’ve practiced yoga in a way that includes a few kriya techniques in order to have some small level of control and insight over it.
I don’t fully understand what Kundalini is, intellectually, though i could easily restate lots of stuff I’ve read. And I have no idea how it fits into the Taoist model. But one thing I know for certain is that whether the difference is in amplitude, quality, and/or source, kundalini energy is different from the chi energy we normally move around as part of our daily lives and in our practices.
I’m not really looking for a discussion of that difference (though, by all means, if folks want to have that discussion, go ahead!). I’m just wondering if anyone out there who has experienced kundalini can place it for me within the model of microcosmic orbit practice. Because as I’ve cleared my front channel, the K is starting to run the orbit. And I’ve seen nothing written on this, and am curious to know more.
Anything that bridges the Taoist practices and yoga practices is good to get out there. There’s a lot of cross-pollination, but it’s pretty haphazard (IMO).June 10, 2007 at 11:29 pm #22588
It’s one of those things where if you’re not sure then it’s not kundalini, and if it’s kundalini you’re quite sure.
There are all sorts of descriptions floating around, but the one that rang most true for me is the feeling of every cell in your body being in a state of continuous orgasm.
The other thing one reads that’s turned out true is you no longer stink. I moved into a 4th floor walkup on a 100 degree, 95% humidity day in glaring sunlight. Shirt was drenched (and then some) by end of day. next morning, it smelled absolutely clean. Really really weird.
But on the spiritual path it actually doesn’t mean much. In fact, it can even be an obstacle, because 1. the crashing bliss can interfere with your ability to cultivate silence in meditation, and 2. if kundalini awakens before your pathways aren’t somewhat clear, it can be a rocky trip indeed (delaying your spirtual practice while you recover). There are ways to handle both issues. I’m not here to evangelize, so I’ll refrain from linking to the system I’ve found (extraordinarily) effective. I’m here to learn more about the Taoist stuff, which I also think is extraordinary 🙂
Oh, another downside: Michael (who also awoke kundalini) says kundalini is a fire path. So there are all the issues with that (I’m doing kidney pulsing qi dong to try to restore balance….see my other postings on this site about that).
This sub-topic is large enough to merit its own board…its own site, in fact. I don’t mind discussing further, but I do hope someone out there can help with my original query. For example, is there some way to read about what happens at Thunder Path Level 21?June 10, 2007 at 11:41 pm #22590
One more thing…kundalini (aka shakti) is highly contagious. And it’s on a very steep upturn right now. Sages from different traditions seem to agree (though with different reasoning) that we’ve entered an age of spiritual acceleration, where it’s easier to get stuff going. I’m no sage, but I intuitively agree. Even from the most prosaic level – observing that myriad previously secret practices are now in their second or third generation of dissemination – it totally makes sense.
So what was true thirty or three thousand years ago about the speed and rarity of any given level of spiritual development may no longer be relevant. And, in any case, much as I’m not inclined to measure my penis (sorry, Michael!), I’m not measuring my attainment by the Ancient Thunder Scale or any other yardstick. I’m just letting go and enjoying the delightful discovery that we don’t fall, we float.
We’re living in a popcorn popper. Enjoy the inspiration from your fellow kernals. Pop, pop……June 10, 2007 at 11:44 pm #22592
You’re over my head here, but I’ll research the terms and puzzle it out. There is just enough equivalency between the models to tempt exchange of ideas, but not always enough to really do anything about it 🙂
According to yoga, kundalini goes up the shushumna, or the central spinal channel….if it’s functioning properly. If not, you can have serious problems. I’m not having any problems (except with my landlord).June 11, 2007 at 1:46 am #22594
Any time I work with the microcosmic orbit I could be in for some sexual energies to come up and down. The process of jing to shen and shen to jing. Just opening up my fornt channel or back channel more can produce that full body yaaahooow. But the process has changed. At first when I would just take the jing up and convert it over to shen I was doing this while sexualy involved this was fine at first but it is not the since that I get now of balance, groundedness, openess when doing the microcosmic orbit with my spinning golden pearl after a little fusion. Each channel has its own thing thats why I am sure there labeled water and fire channels. The fire channel is fun and exciting at first. But working with the front channel has been humbling and balancing. I think though that working in the fire channel hindu or toaist you get simmilar sensations and exsperiences. Though if I am correct the hindus would focus more on the manifestation level of the chakras well at least one level(I believe there to be a water side to the chakras) and I have not heard of toaist focusing on them (please enlighten me other wise).June 11, 2007 at 3:38 am #22596
The macrocosmic orbit is really important – opening the arm and leg routes, and integrating with your standing practices. ime, the micro can be over-done to the point that one excludes earth connection, and that’s a big mistake.
The central channel is unique, in that it is a still place, where the personal and transpersonal intersect – on an applied basis vis-a-vis ‘effective means’. imo, the Tibetans talk most clearly about this in their Six Yogas of Naropa system (even though you have to wade through complexity that is typical of Tibetan Buddhist literature). Without the knowledge of the resolution of energy to the Big Still, which occurs in the central channel, the energies can run around endlessly without really producing stable integrated integrity (on a spiritual mechanical basis).June 11, 2007 at 4:04 am #22598
I think Trunk’s post brings up The Most Important Point which is that if you are not properly grounded (which means being calm and stable) your energy will not be balanced and you will sear yourself if you push it. If you go slowly and build groundedness your body can acclimate to stronger flows of lifeforce (whether you call it kundalini or not is irrelevant imo), and this will occur spontaneously as a part of your organic growth process. So often we try to make things happen -get more chi, stimulate kundalini, whatever… and it comes from ignorance, when what is behind the balanced development and expansion of our internal energies is our personal growth, our self-cultivation. The basis of this, as I exprience it, is being still so that the process can happen guided by the Source through the central channel (“…it is a still place, where the personal and transpersonal intersect…”). Aftr all, what’s the end result we want?
I always refer to what I have read over and over again in The Book of Balance and Harmony-
“When you are calm and stable, careful of attention, the celestial design is always clear, open awareness is unobscured; then you have autonomy in action and can deal with whatever arises. With the maturation of practice of calm stability, one spontaneously arrives at the true restoration of the infinite, where the subtle responsive function of the absolute is clear and the design of the universe and all things is complete in oneself.”
AAJune 11, 2007 at 11:24 am #22600
Trunk, good point on macrocosmic orbit. thanks. Can you recommend an overview somewhere?June 11, 2007 at 11:32 am #22602
j> Can you recommend an overview somewhere? >
Some people find my website helpful, AlchemicalTaoism.com. It’s free, and written (mostly) by students, for students – so, take it for what it’s worth. 😉 Pertinent to our discussion: the Overview section, Microcosmic section, Extraordinary Vessels section (core vessel essays).June 11, 2007 at 4:56 pm #22604
I am not sure if the the translation of kundalini into the Taoist cosmology has trully been flushed out in this conversation. I would love to hear more from people that have worked with both paths. Is kundalini just jing transforming to shen in the fire channel?June 11, 2007 at 11:15 pm #22606
Michael (who’s awakened Kundalini via a similar yoga practice to my own, way back when) says that it’s all about fire channel, but I don’t know about jing or shen.June 11, 2007 at 11:38 pm #22608
D> Is kundalini just jing transforming to shen in the fire channel? >
No, definately not. Kundalini is about the lower centers tapping into a Primordial Force. What, exactly, that is, I couldn’t say. But it is definately not just the common circulation of jing, through whichever channel.June 11, 2007 at 11:57 pm #22610
If you where to take kundalini this primordial force up the front channel would it be the same? Is there nothing in Toaist cosmology that would explain this thing kundalini? I did not mean circulation of jing I meant a transformation.
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