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Neuro-Theology: Can Magnetic Fields Cause “God on the Brain”?

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Home › Forum Online Discussion › Philosophy › Neuro-Theology: Can Magnetic Fields Cause “God on the Brain”?

  • This topic has 4 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 3 months ago by Intelligence.
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  • January 27, 2008 at 11:06 am #27194
    Michael Winn
    Keymaster

    Neuro-Theology: Can Magnetic Fields Cause “God on the Brain”?

    Note: This is a transcript from a very interesting BBC show. The brain research basically upholds the Taoist energetic model of three core channels, but it shows it in terms of brain function.

    When the left and right temporall lobes are weakened during experiments, our sense of time and space (yin-yang functions in left /right core channel) disapepars and we shift into the core of the brain. Once we shift to the core (yuan chi), a sense of “presence” is often felt and/or people, depending on their belief filters, have mystical experiences. Sex loses it power as a stimulus. Results of tests done on a catholic, a buddhist, and a famous aetheist are compared.

    These results are mainly interpreted in terms of the standard science of evolution of the brain vs. religious faith in God beyond the brain debate, and not considering the results as supportive evidence confirming the possibilities of a Spiritual Science that integrates the two.

    In my view, these experiments merely suggest that left/right brain/energy channels regulate our post-natal experience, and core opens the portal to our pre-natal self. The “presence” felt is just another level of our self, you could call it soul or give it labels for the more primal levels of the collective Self (called God by religionists) beyond the soul. Taoists are essentially pan-theistic, i.e. God/Divine is equally everywhere.
    -Michael

    ————-

    BBC DOCUMENTARY: ‘GOD ON THE BRAIN’
    BBC
    April 2003

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/godonbrain.shtml

    ………….

    Watch An Excerpt On YouTube:

    ………….

    GOD ON THE BRAIN – PROGRAMME SUMMARY

    Rudi Affolter and Gwen Tighe have both experienced strong religious visions.
    He is an atheist; she a Christian. He thought he had died; she thought she
    had given birth to Jesus. Both have temporal lobe epilepsy.

    Like other forms of epilepsy, the condition causes fitting but it is also
    associated with religious hallucinations. Research into why people like Rudi
    and Gwen saw what they did has opened up a whole field of brain science:
    neurotheology.

    The connection between the temporal lobes of the brain and religious feeling
    has led one Canadian scientist to try stimulating them. (They are near your
    ears.) 80% of Dr Michael Persinger’s experimental subjects report that an
    artificial magnetic field focused on those brain areas gives them a feeling
    of ‘not being alone’. Some of them describe it as a religious sensation.

    His work raises the prospect that we are programmed to believe in god, that
    faith is a mental ability humans have developed or been given. And temporal
    lobe epilepsy (TLE) could help unlock the mystery.

    Religious leaders

    History is full of charismatic religious figures. Could any of them have
    been epileptics? The visions seen by Bible characters like Moses or Saint
    Paul are consistent with Rudi’s and Gwen’s, but there is no way to diagnose
    TLE in people who lived so long ago.

    There are, though, more recent examples, like one of the founders of the
    Seventh Day Adventist Movement, Ellen White. Born in 1827, she suffered a
    brain injury aged 9 that totally changed her personality. She also began to
    have powerful religious visions.

    Representatives of the Movement doubt that Ellen White suffered from TLE,
    saying her injury and visions are inconsistent with the condition, but
    neurologist Gregory Holmes believes this explains her condition.

    Better than sex

    The first clinical evidence to link the temporal lobes with religious
    sensations came from monitoring how TLE patients responded to sets of words.
    In an experiment where people were shown either neutral words (table),
    erotic words (sex) or religious words (god), the control group was most
    excited by the sexually loaded words. This was picked up as a sweat response
    on the skin. People with temporal lobe epilepsy did not share this apparent
    sense of priorities. For them, religious words generated the greatest
    reaction. Sexual words were less exciting than neutral ones.

    Make believe

    If the abnormal brain activity of TLE patients alters their response to
    religious concepts, could altering brain patterns artificially do the same
    for people with no such medical condition? This is the question that Michael
    Persinger set out to explore, using a wired-up helmet
    designed to concentrate magnetic
    fields on the temporal lobes of the wearer.

    His subjects were not told the precise purpose of the test; just that the
    experiment looked into relaxation. 80% of participants reported feeling
    something when the magnetic fields were applied. Persinger calls one of the
    common sensations a ‘sensed presence’, as if someone else is in the room
    with you, when there is none.

    Horizon introduced Dr Persinger to one of Britain’s most renowned atheists,
    Prof Richard Dawkins. He agreed to try his techniques on Dawkins to see if
    he could give him a moment of religious feeling. During a session that
    lasted 40 minutes, Dawkins found that the magnetic fields around his
    temporal lobes affected his breathing and his limbs. He did not find god.

    Persinger was not disheartened by Dawkins’ immunity to the helmet’s magnetic
    powers. He believes that the sensitivity of our temporal lobes to magnetism
    varies from person to person. People with TLE may be especially sensitive to
    magnetic fields; Prof Dawkins is well below average, it seems. It’s a
    concept that clerics like Bishop Stephen Sykes give some credence as well:
    could there be such a thing as a talent for religion?

    Brain imaging

    Sykes does, though, see a great difference between a ‘sensed presence’ and a
    genuine religious experience. Scientists like Andrew Newberg want to see
    just what does happen during moments of faith. He worked with Buddhist,
    Michael Baime, to study the brain during meditation. By injecting
    radioactive tracers into Michael’s bloodstream as he reached the height of a
    meditative trance, Newberg could use a brain scanner to image the brain at a
    religious climax.

    The bloodflow patterns showed that the temporal lobes were certainly
    involved but also that the brain’s parietal lobes appeared almost completely
    to shut down. The parietal lobes give us our sense of time and place.
    Without them, we may lose our sense of self. Adherants to many of the
    world’s faiths regard a sense of personal insignificance and oneness with a
    deity as something to strive for. Newberg’s work suggests a neurological
    basis for what religion tries to generate.

    Religious evolution

    If brain function offers insight into how we experience religion, does it
    say anything about why we do? There is evidence that people with religious
    faith have longer, healthier lives. This hints at a survival benefit for
    religious people. Could we have evolved religious belief?

    Prof Dawkins (who subscribes to evolution to explain human development)
    thinks there could be an evolutionary advantage, not to believing in god,
    but to having a brain with the capacity to believe in god. That such faith
    exists is a by-product of enhanced intelligence. Prof Ramachandran denies
    that finding out how the brain reacts to religion negates the value of
    belief. He feels that brain circuitry like that Persinger and Newberg have
    identified, could amount to an antenna to make us receptive to god. Bishop
    Sykes meanwhile, thinks religion has nothing to fear from this neuroscience.
    Science is about seeking to explain the world around us. For him at least,
    it can co-exist with faith.

    ………….

    GOD ON THE BRAIN – QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/godonbrainqa.shtml

    What are the temporal lobes of the brain?

    The temporal lobe controls hearing, speech and memory. The brain has two
    temporal lobes, one on each side of the brain, located near the ears. The
    two are interchangeable so if one is damaged the other is usually able to
    take over the other’s function.

    What is temporal lobe epilepsy?

    It is a condition in which the patient suffers repeated seizures when there
    is abnormal electrical activity in the temporal lobes of the brain. These
    seizures may be simple partial seizures without loss of awareness or they
    can be complex partial seizures with loss of awareness. The patient loses
    awareness during a complex partial seizure because the seizure spreads to
    both lobes, causing memory loss. The condition was first recognised in 1881.

    What percentage of patients with temporal lobe epilepsy suffer from
    religious hallucinations?

    It is difficult to say because unless the doctor brings up the subject
    directly with the patient, they may never know if the patient has religious
    hallucinations. Estimates vary between 10 and 70% , but most neurologists
    believe only a minority of patients with temporal lobe epilepsy suffer from
    hallucinations.

    Are scientists arguing that all religious experiences can be related to
    temporal lobe epilepsy?

    Not at all. While studies have clearly shown a relationship between
    religious experience and temporal lobe epilepsy. This does not explain all
    religious experience by any means. Religious and spiritual experiences are
    highly complex, involving emotions, thoughts, sensations and behaviours. But
    scientists do believe that patients with temporal lobe epilepsy, who
    experience religious hallucinations may provide a valuable model in showing
    how certain types of religious experience effect the human brain.

    Does this work suggest there is a specific ‘god spot’ in the brain?

    Although the temporal lobes are clearly important in religious experience,
    they are not the whole story. Already the work of Dr Andrew Newberg has
    shown that a part of the brain called parietal lobes are important.
    Additionally, very different patterns of brain activity may appear,
    depending on the particular experience the individual is having. For
    example, a near death experience might result in different activity patterns
    from those found in a person who is meditating. Scientists now believe that
    a number of structures in the brain need to work together to help us
    experience spirituality and religion.

    Are we ‘hardwired’ for god?

    The term ‘hardwired’ suggests that we were purposefully designed that way.
    Neuroscience can’t answer that question. However what it can say is that the
    brain does seem to predisposed towards a belief in spiritual and religious
    matters. The big mystery is how and why this came about.

    How does Dr Persinger induce artificially religious experiences in his
    patients?

    Dr Persinger has designed a helmet that produces a very weak rotating
    magnetic field of between ten nanotesla and one microtesla over the temporal
    lobes of the brain. This is placed on the subject’s head and they are placed
    in a quiet chamber while blindfolded. So that there is no risk of
    ‘suggestion’, the only information that the subjects are given is that they
    are going in for a relaxation experiment. Neither the subject nor the
    experimenter carrying out the test has any idea of the true purpose of the
    experiment. In addition to this, the experiment is also run with the field
    switched both off and on. This procedure Dr Persinger claims will induce an
    experience in over 80% of test subjects.

    What sort of experiences do subjects report?

    This is very dependent on the belief system of the individual subjects. Dr
    Persinger talks about his subjects feeling a ‘sensed presence’ — feeling
    that somebody was in the chamber with them. Subjects who are strongly
    religious are likely to interpret this presence as god. Whereas, atheists
    may also report a ‘sensed presence’ but attribute the phenomena to a trick
    of brain chemistry, perhaps comparable to when they have taken drugs in the
    past.

    Could it be there is a genetic component to religious belief?

    Religious behaviour is so complex it is very unlikely that there will be a
    single gene for religious activity, but it does seem as if there is some
    sort of as yet unidentified genetic component. Several studies of identical
    twins separated at birth and brought up separately have measured
    religiosity. Religiosity is defined as the intensity of religious belief.
    These studies have shown that there appears to be about a 50% component to
    religiosity.

    Clearly, what religion you are brought up in is largely dependent upon the
    culture into which you are born, but what appears to have a significant
    genetic component is your level of religious intensity.

    Will any of this research ever be able to establish whether god exists or
    not?

    Whether god exists or not is something that neuroscience cannot answer. For
    example, if we take a brain image of a person when they are looking at a
    picture, we will see various parts of the brain being activated, such as the
    visual cortex. But the brain image cannot tell us whether or not there is
    actually a picture ‘out there’ or whether the person is creating the picture
    in their own mind. To a certain degree, we all create our own sense of
    reality. Getting to what is real is the tricky part.

    ———–

    SAMPLE EXCERPTS:

    NARRATOR: Temporal lobe epilepsy has one very unusual side effect. In a
    minority of patients it can induce religious hallucinations. These visions
    have led scientists to ask questions that have never been asked before. Rudi
    has always been a confirmed atheist, but even so, when he was 43 years old
    he had a powerful religious vision.

    RUDI: I was lying on my bed in the wards in Crawley Hospital when suddenly
    it seemed to me that everything was changing. The room was still the same
    size but it was becoming something else. I thought that I had to fight
    against this at first and I tried very hard mentally to bring myself back to
    normal because I thought that I was going mad. I thought that I had died and
    I had gone to hell. I was told that I had gone there because I had not been
    a devout Christian, a believer in god. I was quite shocked to find that the
    Christian religion was the correct one. I was very depressed and very
    alarmed, very worried at what had happened, and at the thought that I was
    going to remain here forever.

    ………….

    BERNY: Gwen had a lovely pregnancy, nothing seemed to be going wrong.

    GWEN: We went to the car and just as we got in the car my waters broke then,
    and after that I can’t remember anything.

    BERNY: Got to the actual birth and Charles — that’s our son — got about
    half way out and his head was coming out, the umbilical cord was wrapped
    around his neck and he was strangling a bit. She was too late to have a
    caesarean but they were able to get Charles out eventually, no damage to
    him. She was just sitting there smiling I think would be the best
    description. And I was sitting there and she turned around and said: “Isn’t
    it nice to be part of the Holy Family.” I thought — Holy Family? It then
    turned out she thought I was Joseph, she was Mary and little Charlie was
    Christ! And I was basically told if she didn’t agree to go into the local
    psychiatric hospital they’d section her. At the time it was extremely scary.
    I didn’t know where I was going. I’ve got to be honest.

    GWEN: Now looking back on it, it is rather a strange, to say the least,
    thing to have happen… been in my thoughts at the time. I don’t know why I
    said it.

    ………….

    NARRATOR: The girl was having terrible trouble sleeping. Every night she was
    visited by the most horrific supernatural experience. She would become more
    and more terrified, convinced that a spirit was in the room with her.
    Increasingly traumatised, she dreaded going into her bedroom. So Dr
    Persinger decided to visit the house. He was convinced that the girl’s
    hallucinations had to be the result of hidden, fluctuating, electromagnetic
    fields. These could be caused, perhaps, by an overhead pylon or an
    underground fault line. The challenge for Dr Persinger and his colleague,
    Stan Koren, was to track down the source of these fields. The team used
    their specially adapted measuring equipment — a plastic milk crate and a
    roll of copper wire…

    NARRATOR: Initially the readers the team found were inconclusive, but then
    they noticed a clock radio in the girl’s bedroom.

    PERSINGER: We went over and measured and we found that she slept near a
    clock, and we measured the clock, and the clock had a particular, unusual
    pattern to it. It was the same basic pattern that we were using to generate
    the presence in the laboratory. The clock was removed, the phenomena itself
    terminated.

    NARRATOR: Dr Persinger’s story sounds almost unbelievable, but there is some
    evidence that backs up the idea of a connection between supernatural visions
    and electromagnetic fields. The spectacular Northern Lights are produced
    when solar storms occur on the sun. These storms can also alter the earth’s
    magnetic fields, and whenever this happens, an increased number of ghostly
    sightings are reported. And several other scientists have claimed that these
    fluctuating fields can cause seizures in the brain.

    PERSINGER: We know geomagnetic activity influences the temple lobes because
    when we look at correlational data there’s an increase in seizures, temporal
    lobe seizures and convulsions when there’s an increased global geomagnetic
    activity all over the earth.

    NARRATOR: Controversially Dr Persinger argues that most, if not all,
    spiritual and religious experience can be explained away by the effect of
    electromagnetic fields on the temporal lobes of the brain.

    …………

    NARRATOR: This strange sensation of a loss of self is central to religious
    feelings in all the world’s faiths. Buddhists seek a feeling of oneness with
    the universe, Hindus strive for the soul and God to become one and the
    Catholics search for the Unio Mystica. Dr Newberg wondered if these very
    different religions might actually be describing the same thing. To test
    this theory he took scans of Franciscan nuns at prayer to see if there was
    any similarity between what was going on in their brains and those of
    Buddhists.

    NEWBERG: Interestingly when we look at the Franciscan nuns we see a similar
    decrease in the orientation part of the brain as we saw with the Tibetan
    Buddhists.

    NARRATOR: Even though Buddhists and Catholics may come from very different
    religious traditions, how their minds react to deep meditation or prayer
    seems, in terms of brain chemistry, to be exactly the same process. Dr
    Newberg’s research shows the first clear scientific evidence that there are
    a number of different areas in our brain involved in religious belief.
    ———————-

    GOD ON THE BRAIN – FULL TRANSCRIPT

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/godonbraintrans.shtml

    RUDI: I thought that I had died and I had gone to hell.

    GWEN: I was almost thinking of my son as god.

    BERNY: It then turned out she thought I was Joseph, she was Mary and little
    Charlie was Christ.

    NARRATOR (BARBARA FLYNN): These people suffer from one of the strangest of
    all brain disorders. It makes them think they have been touched by god. But
    their unusual condition is giving scientists a unique insight into faith and
    the human mind. As a result researchers are now asking one of them most
    explosive questions of all — could it be that the physical makeup of our
    brain programmes us to believe in god?

    RUDI: These are my temporal lobes where my epilepsy is situated.

    NARRATOR: Rudi Affolter has suffered from a severe form of temporal lobe
    epilepsy all his life, so severe that he almost died from his seizures when
    he was just 18 months old. Seizures occur when there is abnormal electrical
    activity in the temporal lobes of the brain.

    RUDI AFFOLTER: For a few minutes you will be unaware and you’re then quite
    often a bit giddy. It goes on until you collapse to the ground and you’re
    writhing about for perhaps for a few minutes. You might remain conscious or
    you might then be completely unconscious.

    NARRATOR: Temporal lobe epilepsy has one very unusual side effect. In a
    minority of patients it can induce religious hallucinations. These visions
    have led scientists to ask questions that have never been asked before. Rudi
    has always been a confirmed atheist, but even so, when he was 43 years old
    he had a powerful religious vision.

    RUDI: I was lying on my bed in the wards in Crawley Hospital when suddenly
    it seemed to me that everything was changing. The room was still the same
    size but it was becoming something else. I thought that I had to fight
    against this at first and I tried very hard mentally to bring myself back to
    normal because I thought that I was going mad. I thought that I had died and
    I had gone to hell. I was told that I had gone there because I had not been
    a devout Christian, a believer in god. I was quite shocked to find that the
    Christian religion was the correct one. I was very depressed and very
    alarmed, very worried at what had happened, and at the thought that I was
    going to remain here forever.

    NARRATOR: Fortunately for Rudi, his vision ended and he has never had
    another one. He remains a firm atheist. But Gwen Tighe has suffered from
    hallucinations which have recurred over a number of years. Unlike Rudi, she
    is a strong believer, a devout Roman Catholic. Over the years her husband,
    Berny, has been there to witness the effect of these visions, the first of
    which appeared just after their honeymoon when Gwen was in hospital.

    BERNY TIGHE: And she wanted to whisper to me that the lady across the ward
    was the devil, and that’s the first I’ve ever heard of it. She was.. the
    lady she was green skinned apparently, a green colour — the devil!

    GWEN TIGHE: It just was in my mind the devil and it looked frightening. It
    was brighter lights, not the dark lights like people would usually associate
    with devil-like creatures. It was very bright but overpowering and very
    frightening.

    BERNY: Crikey! (laughs) What do I… what’s going on? After that she had
    occasions when she’d have a number of seizures or her medication would go
    slightly wrong and she would be confused then, and then she’d start talking
    about the devil.

    NARRATOR: After several years the visions stopped completely but then Gwen
    became pregnant.

    BERNY: Gwen had a lovely pregnancy, nothing seemed to be going wrong.

    GWEN: We went to the car and just as we got in the car my waters broke then,
    and after that I can’t remember anything.

    BERNY: Got to the actual birth and Charles — that’s our son — got about
    half way out and his head was coming out, the umbilical cord was wrapped
    around his neck and he was strangling a bit. She was too late to have a
    caesarean but they were able to get Charles out eventually, no damage to
    him. She was just sitting there smiling I think would be the best
    description. And I was sitting there and she turned around and said: “Isn’t
    it nice to be part of the Holy Family.” I thought — Holy Family? It then
    turned out she thought I was Joseph, she was Mary and little Charlie was
    Christ! And I was basically told if she didn’t agree to go into the local
    psychiatric hospital they’d section her. At the time it was extremely scary.
    I didn’t know where I was going. I’ve got to be honest.

    GWEN: Now looking back on it, it is rather a strange, to say the least,
    thing to have happen… been in my thoughts at the time. I don’t know why I
    said it.

    NARRATOR: Rudi and Gwen’s hallucinations may seem very odd, but there is a
    growing belief amongst researchers that their condition could help give
    answers to one of the deepest philosophical questions of all. Where does
    religious belief come from? Divine revelation is crucial to all the great
    faiths. Visions for mystics and seers have produced creeds that people have
    lived and died for. Believers are convinced that such revelations come from
    god; atheists that they are no more than the product of superstition and
    social conditioning. What neither side has ever thought is that religion
    might actually be as fundamentally a part of us as the desire to eat, sleep
    or have sex. But now that view may be changing, and temporal lobe epilepsy
    is turning out to be key. The condition is being used to help explain the
    start of at least one of the world’s most thriving religious groups — the
    Seventh Day Adventist Movement which currently has over 12 million members.
    Locked within the archives of the church lies the story of how it all began,
    with the revelations of a young woman called Ellen White.

    MERLIN BURT (Ellen G. White, Estate Branch Office, Loma Linda): Ellen White
    is one of the principal founders of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. She
    had unique visionary experiences that gave guidance to the movement in what
    they understood to be a supernatural way. The religious visions remain
    critically important to the Seventh Day Adventist Church.

    NARRATOR: Ellen White was born in 1827 and during her life wrote about
    100,000 pages about her religious faith, believing she was inspired by god
    she laid out a strict moral code which lectured on everything from the sins
    of tea drinking to masturbation. She also gave detailed accounts of hundreds
    of intense religious visions that she’d experienced.

    ELLEN WHITE: While I was praying there was — as has been a hundred times or
    more — a soft light circling around in the room, and a fragrance like the
    fragrance of flowers, and I knew god was close.

    NARRATOR: These visions so convinced her followers that they believed she
    had to be a prophet from god. But when scientists began to study Ellen’s
    past, they started to wonder if instead she had been a sufferer of temporal
    lobe epilepsy. Because one day, something happened that might have induced
    the condition. When she was 9 years old Ellen was chased home from school by
    an older girl.

    ELLEN: I turned to see how far she was behind me, and as I turned a stone
    hit me on the nose. A blinding, stunning sensation overpowered me and I fell
    senseless. My mother says that I noticed nothing but lay in a stupid state
    for three weeks. As I roused to consciousness it seemed to me I had been
    asleep. I was shocked. Every feature of my face seemed changed.

    NARRATOR: Ellen was so severely affected by the injury she was never able to
    return to school. Her personality changed dramatically. She became highly
    religious and moralistic. And for the first time in her life she began to
    have powerful religious visions.

    PROF GREGORY HOLMES (Dartmouth Medical School): Typically the visions began
    suddenly, she would have a change in facial expression, she would often
    stare upward. During her vision she was really unaware of what was happening
    around her, and often she would have what are called automatisms of
    repetitive movements from which the patient has very little memory for after
    the event.

    NARRATOR: Professor Gregory Holmes, one of the world’s leading experts in
    paediatric neurology believes the fact that Ellen White’s visions followed
    the head injury is no coincidence.

    HOLMES: The bones behind the eyes are quite weak and brain tissue behind the
    eyes is quite susceptible to an injury due to the fragile nature of these
    bones. Often someone that’s hit in the face with a stone will have an actual
    shifting of the brain, you know.. the head will be hit very hard, it’ll
    bounce back, and the brain is bouncing back and forth.

    NARRATOR: The personality changes, the highly religious tone, and the
    visions convinced Holmes there could be only one diagnosis for Ellen White’s
    condition.

    HOLMES: Her whole clinical course to me suggests a highly probability that
    she had temporal lobe epilepsy. This would indicate to me that the spiritual
    vision she was having would not be genuine, would be due to the seizure.

    NARRATOR: This is a shattering diagnosis for the Seventh Day Adventist
    Movement who still insist that Ellen White was divinely inspired. Their
    spokesman, a neurologist as well as a Seventh Day Adventist dismisses
    Professor Holmes’ claim.

    DR DANIEL GIANG (Loma Linda University Medical Center): The reasons why I
    don’t feel that Ellen White’s visions were the result of temporal lobe
    seizures are several. One is that her injury was clearly to the nose area
    and this would be quite far away from the temporal lobes, another would be
    that the visions started 8 years after the head trauma and we’d expect most
    people with seizures following head trauma to have their seizures start 1 to
    3 years after the head trauma. Finally, in Ellen White’s visions last from
    15 minutes to 3 hours or more. She never apparently had any briefer visions.
    That’s quite unusual for seizures.

    NARRATOR: It is impossible to prove absolutely that Ellen White had temporal
    lobe epilepsy, but the length of her visions and the fact that they started
    8 years after the accident are consistent with the disorder.
    Controversially, it is now being suggested that other religious leaders too
    may have suffered from this condition.

    PROF VILAYANUR RAMACHANDRAN (University of California, San Diego): It’s
    possible that many great religious leaders had temporal lobe seizures and
    this predisposes them to having visions, having mystical experiences.

    NARRATOR: St Paul is a case in point. He famously encountered god who
    appeared to him in a blinding flash on the road to Damascus.

    RAMACHANDRAN: Many religious mystics, including St Paul, some of the
    experiences they describe sound quite similar to the sorts of things you
    hear from patients, so it’s quite possible that he had seizures.

    NARRATOR: And what about Moses, the bringer of the Ten Commandments,
    believed he heard the voice of god speak to him from a burning bush.

    RAMACHANDRAN: It’s possible that even Moses did, and many religious mystics
    in India may have had seizure activity in the brain that predisposed them to
    such beliefs and enriched their mental lives enormously as a result.

    NARRATOR: Bishop Stephen Sykes believes that thousands of years on its
    almost impossible to know for sure whether past religious figures had
    temporal lobe epilepsy.

    BISHOP STEPHEN SYKES (University of Durham): The description of their states
    of mind is by people of their times, and their frames of ref are very
    different from ours, and I like to be gently sceptical, I mean it’s very
    easy to say in the past they thought that these people were having religious
    experience, now in our infinite wisdom we know that in fact they were
    suffering from a form of epilepsy. Well I just think a bit of humility
    wouldn’t go amiss actually.

    NARRATOR: We may never learn the truth about Moses or St Paul, but Professor
    Ramachandran of the University of California decided to pursue the link
    between the temporal lobes of the brain and religious experience. So he set
    up an experiment to compare the brains of people with and without temporal
    lobe epilepsy.

    RAMACHANDRAN: What we did was first take normal volunteers who did not have
    epileptic seizures. Put two electrodes on their finger tips to measure the
    changes of skin resistance. This essentially measure how much they sweat
    when they look at different words on the screen. In a normal person, if I
    flashed the word ‘table’ the person will not sweat. But if I flash the word
    ‘sex’ then the person starts sweating and this registers as a change of
    resistance called the ‘galvanic skin response’. Now the question is, what
    would happen if you do the same experiment with patients with temporal lobe
    epilepsy?

    NARRATOR: The epileptic patients were given three different groups of words:
    sexually loaded words, neutral words and religious words. Professor
    Ramachandran found that the neutral words, as expected, produced little
    emotional effect, but was astonished by the response he got when he started
    showing patients sexual and religious words.

    RAMACHANDRAN: What we found to our amazement was, every time they looked at
    religious words like ‘god’ they get a huge big galvanic skin response.
    Conversely, if you showed them a sexually loaded word, these patients showed
    a slightly lower response. In other words, their response was higher to
    words about god and religion and lower to sexual words, whereas in most
    normal people it’s the other way around.

    NARRATOR: This was the very first piece of clinical evidence revealing that
    the body’s physical response to religious imagery was definitely linked to
    activity in the temporal lobes of the brain.

    RAMACHANDRAN: So what we suggested was, there are certain circuits within
    the temporal lobes which have been selectively activated. Their activity is
    selectively heightened in these patients, and somehow the activity of these
    specific neural circuits is more conducive to religious belief and mystical
    belief. It makes them more prone to religious belief.

    NARRATOR: Scientists now believe what happens inside the minds of temporal
    lobe epileptic patients may just be an extreme case of what goes on inside
    all our brains, for everyone. It now appears that temporal lobes are key in
    experiencing religious and spiritual belief. This explosive research
    studying how religious faith affects the brain is the inspiration for a
    completely new field of science — neurotheology. In a remote region of
    Northern Canada a scientist put this controversial new science of
    neurotheology to the test. Dr Michael Persinger claims that by stimulating
    the temporal lobes he can artificially induce religious experience in almost
    anyone. Dr Persinger has developed a device which produces an
    electromagnetic field across the temporal lobes. He says he can induce a
    moment that feels just like a genuine religious revelation with a machine
    unlike any other.

    DR MICHAEL PERSINGER (Laurentian University): The helmet was basically
    designed to generate weak magnetic fields across the hemispheres,
    specifically the temporal lobe. So the way it’s set up is that each pair of
    the solenoids are connected so that at any given time a magnetic field
    passes through the helmet and hence through the brain.

    NARRATOR: Before the experiment could go ahead, Dr Persinger took his
    subjects into a silent room where they were blindfolded. Don Hill had little
    idea of what he was about to go through as he entered the testing chamber.

    DON HILL: In the chamber I had a number of experiences: my hands getting
    very clammy, waves of fear inexplicable that I couldn’t put my finger on,
    tingling effects, rushes of energy up and down my spine, burping (laughs)
    which is kind of embarrassing, and a general feeling of malaise.

    NARRATOR: But as Dr Persinger manipulated the magnetic fields, Don began to
    get a very strange feeling, a feeling that perhaps he was not alone.

    HILL: My shoulders are very tense up to my ears right now.

    It’s not so much I felt like there was somebody or something in the chamber
    with me because my commonsense to me that this could not be. But I could not
    get rid of the feeling that there was something there. It was lurking, it
    was watching me. I felt like I was under surveillance. And it was.. felt
    like coming from behind.. you know.. like what’s over there. That’s what it
    felt like. Yeah, how could this be? There’s nothing there. I’m in a space
    that’s safe.

    NARRATOR: Don had experienced one of the most common and bizarre effects in
    the chamber, a feeling that someone else was in there with him. Dr Persinger
    called this feeling the “sensed presence”.

    PERSINGER: The fundamental experience is the sensed presence, and our data
    indicate that the sensed presence, the feeling of another entity of
    something beyond yourself, perhaps bigger than yourself, bigger in space and
    bigger in time, can be stimulated by simply activating the right hemisphere,
    particularly the temple lobe.

    NARRATOR: To ensure that it was genuinely the electromagnetic field that
    caused the sensed presence, Dr Persinger ran the experiment with the field
    switched both off and on. Crucially no one was told what the true purpose of
    the experiment was, merely that it was to do with relaxation. When the
    results came back, they were impressive. When the machine was on, 80% sensed
    something. Dr Persinger has taken his research a stage further. He believes
    naturally occurring electromagnetic fields might also be capable of
    generating the sensed presence. This, he argues, could explain not just our
    sense of god, but perhaps other supernatural experiences too — like ghosts.

    PERSINGER: We were called by an individual who was concerned about her
    daughter who was having an experience and people were concerned that she was
    crazy.

    NARRATOR: The girl was having terrible trouble sleeping. Every night she was
    visited by the most horrific supernatural experience. She would become more
    and more terrified, convinced that a spirit was in the room with her.
    Increasingly traumatised, she dreaded going into her bedroom. So Dr
    Persinger decided to visit the house. He was convinced that the girl’s
    hallucinations had to be the result of hidden, fluctuating, electromagnetic
    fields. These could be caused, perhaps, by an overhead pylon or an
    underground fault line. The challenge for Dr Persinger and his colleague,
    Stan Koren, was to track down the source of these fields. The team used
    their specially adapted measuring equipment — a plastic milk crate and a
    roll of copper wire.

    PERSINGER: What’s your beat frequency for the gigahertz — 15?

    KOREN: 15 kilohertz — that’s right.

    PERSINGER: In certain situations electromagnetic fields are being generated
    that overlap at what the brain normally generates. Certain individuals, if
    their brains are sensitive, their brains can interact with these fields to
    produce all kinds of powerful, very meaningful, experiences that can be
    called a god, or a haunt, depending upon their interpretation.

    Talk about quietude!

    So we walk about the house trying to find out where the areas are that may
    be the sources of the signals. Usually the people tell us on the basis of
    their experience, they’ll say: “This is where it happens.”

    NARRATOR: Initially the readers the team found were inconclusive, but then
    they noticed a clock radio in the girl’s bedroom.

    PERSINGER: We went over and measured and we found that she slept near a
    clock, and we measured the clock, and the clock had a particular, unusual
    pattern to it. It was the same basic pattern that we were using to generate
    the presence in the laboratory. The clock was removed, the phenomena itself
    terminated.

    NARRATOR: Dr Persinger’s story sounds almost unbelievable, but there is some
    evidence that backs up the idea of a connection between supernatural visions
    and electromagnetic fields. The spectacular Northern Lights are produced
    when solar storms occur on the sun. These storms can also alter the earth’s
    magnetic fields, and whenever this happens, an increased number of ghostly
    sightings are reported. And several other scientists have claimed that these
    fluctuating fields can cause seizures in the brain.

    PERSINGER: We know geomagnetic activity influences the temple lobes because
    when we look at correlational data there’s an increase in seizures, temporal
    lobe seizures and convulsions when there’s an increased global geomagnetic
    activity all over the earth.

    NARRATOR: Controversially Dr Persinger argues that most, if not all,
    spiritual and religious experience can be explained away by the effect of
    electromagnetic fields on the temporal lobes of the brain.

    PERSINGER: Most of my colleagues tell me why do you study this because
    you’ll never get grant money, why do you study this because your reputation
    will be put on the line because you’re looking at things that should not be
    studied, religious experience, paranormal experiences, they should never be
    studied because they’re outside of science. And my question is: why not, why
    shouldn’t we study them? The experimental method is the most powerful tool
    that we have, that’s how we find truth and non-truth.

    NARRATOR: So Horizon decided to set Dr Persinger’s theories and his machine
    the ultimate test, to give a religious experience to one of the world’s most
    strident atheists — Professor Richard Dawkins. In Professor Dawkins’
    opinion the struggle of atheism against religion is nothing less than the
    battle of truth against ignorance. Will Dr Persinger succeed where the Pope,
    the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Dalai Lama have failed?

    PROF RICHARD DAWKINS (University of Oxford): If I were turned into a devout
    religious believer, my wife would threaten to leave me. I’ve always been
    curious to know what it would be like to have a mystical experience. I’m
    looking forward to the attempt this afternoon.

    NARRATOR: Dr Persinger planned to apply a range of different magnetic fields
    across Richard Dawkins’ brain.

    DAWKINS: I’ve so far experienced nothing unusual at all.

    NARRATOR: The fields must be adjusted because Dr Persinger’s work suggests
    that different shapes of field and whether they’re applied over the left or
    right temporal lobe can make a difference to whether the subject experiences
    god or not.

    DAWKINS: I’m slightly dizzy.

    NARRATOR: Initially Dr Persinger applied a field to the right-hand side of
    Richard Dawkins’ head.

    DAWKINS: Quite strange.

    NARRATOR: Then to increase the chances of feeling a sensed presence, Dr
    Persinger started to apply the magnetic field to both sides of the head.

    DAWKINS: Sort of a twitchiness in my breathing. I don’t know what that is.
    My left leg is sort of moving, right leg is twitching.

    NARRATOR: So after 40 minutes had Richard Dawkins been brought closer to
    god?

    DAWKINS: Unfortunately I didn’t get the sensation of a presence. It pretty
    much felt as though I was in total darkness with a helmet on my head and
    pleasantly relaxed, and occasionally feeling the sensations which I
    described as they occurred into the microphone. But I would be hard put to
    it to swear that those were not things that could happen to me any time on a
    dark night. I’m very disappointed. It would have been deeply interesting to
    me to have experienced something of what religious people do experience in
    the way of a mystical experience, a communion with the universe. I would
    have liked to have experienced that.

    NARRATOR: But Dr Persinger believes that there was a particular reason why
    the experiment failed for Richard Dawkins.

    PERSINGER: We developed a questionnaire a few years ago called temporal lobe
    sensitivity and what we found is a continuum of sensitivities from people
    who are not temporal lobe sensitive to those who are very sensitive, and the
    experience end being the temporal lobe epileptic. In the case of Dr Dawkins
    his temporal lobe sensitivity is much, much lower than most people we run
    than the average person, much, much lower.

    BISHOP STEPHEN SYKES (University of Durham): It may not be open to everybody
    in the same degree to have particular kinds of religious experience. There
    is a very interesting dispute at the moment about whether one can have a
    talent for religion and whether that is something like a musical talent
    which some people have and other people don’t have.

    NARRATOR: Despite the setback with Professor Dawkins, Dr Persinger’s
    research on over 1000 human guinea pigs has gone further than any other to
    establish a clear link between spiritual or religious experience and the
    temporal lobes of the human brain. It has put his research at the very
    cutting edge of neurotheology. But religious believers argue that there is a
    world of difference between a motorcycle helmet that induces feelings and a
    genuine religious experience.

    BISHOP SYKES: If I thought that my mind had been manipulated into having a
    certain set of experiences, and that somebody was out there doing it to me,
    then I would be very inclined, I think rationally, to think that although
    the experience might be pleasurable, have good consequences, relaxing,
    whatever, whatever, I would want to say I wouldn’t think it had much to do
    with religion, with my faith.

    NARRATOR: What is almost certainly true is that religious experience is far
    more complex than can be explained simply by activity in one area of the
    brain. Dr Persinger’s work is only the beginning. Many scientists now
    suspect there must be far more to the relationship between the brain and
    belief. A research team has come up with a unique way of exploring this
    relationship. They examined what happened at the precise moment the brain
    had a genuine religious experience. It was the mind of Michael Baime that
    provided the moment of insight.

    DR MICHAEL BAIME: You could describe this experience of meditation, of
    really deep meditation, as a kind of a oneness.

    NARRATOR: Michael is a Buddhist, a faith that requires its followers to
    enter into the spiritual through medication.

    BAIME: As you relax more and more and let go of the boundary between oneself
    and everything else begins to dissolve, so there’s more and more of a
    feeling of identity with the rest of the world and less and less
    separateness.

    NARRATOR: Researcher Dr Andrew Newberg set up a brain imaging system that
    could for the very first time track exactly what happened inside Michael’s
    brain as he meditated.

    DR ANDREW NEWBERG (Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania): When the
    subject first comes into our laboratory, what we normally do is bring them
    into a fairly quiet room. They would then begin the mediation. We were
    normally not even in the room so that we would actually minimise any kind of
    distractions to them. The only way that we had some kind of contact with
    them is that they had a little piece of string that would sit next to their
    side. They would tug on this string a little bit which meant that now they
    were beginning to head towards their peak of meditation.

    NARRATOR: The pulling of the string was the cue for the team to inject a
    radioactive tracer into Michael’s body. This tracer was then carried in the
    bloodstream up to the brain producing an accurate freeze-frame picture of
    the blood flow in Michael’s brain just moments after injection at the
    highpoint of his meditative climax. The scans measured blood flow with red
    showing the areas with highest flow and yellow the areas with lowest. The
    results revealed that as in other experiments the temporal lobes were
    certainly involved, but they showed something else. As Michael’s meditation
    reached its peak an area of the brain called the parietal lobes had less and
    less blood flowing into them. They seemed almost to be shutting down. This
    was significant new information. The parietal lobes help give us our sense
    of time and place.

    NEWBERG: This part of the brain typically takes all of our sensory
    information and uses that sensory information to create a sense of
    ourselves. When people meditate they frequently describe a loss of that
    sense of self and that’s exactly what we did see in the meditation subjects
    was that they actually decreased the activity in this parietal or this
    orientation part of the brain.

    NARRATOR: This strange sensation of a loss of self is central to religious
    feelings in all the world’s faiths. Buddhists seek a feeling of oneness with
    the universe, Hindus strive for the soul and God to become one and the
    Catholics search for the Unio Mystica. Dr Newberg wondered if these very
    different religions might actually be describing the same thing. To test
    this theory he took scans of Franciscan nuns at prayer to see if there was
    any similarity between what was going on in their brains and those of
    Buddhists.

    NEWBERG: Interestingly when we look at the Franciscan nuns we see a similar
    decrease in the orientation part of the brain as we saw with the Tibetan
    Buddhists.

    NARRATOR: Even though Buddhists and Catholics may come from very different
    religious traditions, how their minds react to deep meditation or prayer
    seems, in terms of brain chemistry, to be exactly the same process. Dr
    Newberg’s research shows the first clear scientific evidence that there are
    a number of different areas in our brain involved in religious belief.

    NEWBERG: The results from our study really point to the fact that there is a
    large network of different structures in the brain communicating with each
    other during these spiritual experiences, and I think our results do show
    that there are lots of different parts of the brain that get turned on or
    turned off suggesting that there really is an overall network of structures
    that seems to be involved in these types of practices.

    NARRATOR: The implications of Dr Newberg’s research, along with that of Dr
    Persinger, are huge. They suggest that how or what we believe is deeply
    controlled by the basic physical makeup of our minds. It begs the question:
    why have we developed this ability? Perhaps there is a simple evolutionary
    explanation. Studies have shown that believers live longer, are healthier,
    even that they may have lower levels of cancer and heart disease. Could it
    be we somehow evolved religious belief as a survival mechanism?

    DAWKINS: If you ask the question ‘what’s the survival value of religious
    belief?’ it could be that you’re asking the wrong question. What you should
    be doing is asking what’s the survival value of the kind of brain which
    manifests itself as religious belief under the right circumstances.

    NARRATOR: But if religious faith is somehow a by-product of evolution, does
    that mean belief in a god can be dismissed as a quirk of nature? The fact
    is, it is much too early to think of neurotheology as a means of explaining
    away people’s faith. Although there is evidence to show that our brains are
    hardwired for religions, this doesn’t mean that god can be dismissed as just
    a trick of brain chemistry.

    RAMACHANDRAN: Just because there are circuits in your brain that predispose
    you to religious belief does not in any way negate the value of a religious
    belief. Now it may be god’s way of putting an antenna in your brain to make
    you more receptive to god. Nothing our scientists are saying about the brain
    or about neural circuitry for religion in any way negates the existence of
    god, nor negates the value of religious experience for the person
    experiencing it.

    BISHOP SYKES: It would be very surprising if we didn’t discover more about
    the physics and chemistry of those parts of our bodies which are a process,
    the various bits of enjoyment we receive from religious belief. I think
    Christians and maybe other religious believers have absolutely nothing to
    fear from further investigation, indeed should be keen on it and canny when
    it comes to the interpretation of it.

    NARRATOR: What is beyond doubt is that the origins of religion are even more
    complex than had been thought. The science of neurotheology has revealed
    that it is too simplistic to see religion as either spiritually inspired or
    the result of social conditioning. What it shows is that for some reason our
    brains have developed specific structures that help us believe in god.
    Remarkably it seems whether god exists or not, the way our brains have
    developed, we will go on believing.

    DAWKINS: The human religious impulse does seem very difficult to wipe out,
    which causes me a certain amount of grief. Clearly religion has extreme
    tenacity.

    NEWBERG: Because the brain seems to be designed the way it is, and because
    religion and spirituality seem to be built so well into that kind of
    function, the concepts of god and religion are going to be around for a
    very, very long time.

    …………

    January 27, 2008 at 5:01 pm #27195
    Intelligence
    Participant

    by prenatal do you mean pre-birth or pre-womb?

    for some reason i have always felt the taoists meant pre-womb not pre-birth, in fact considering womb to be birth with a nine month followup…

    other issue is God… to compare a prebirth or pre-womb collective soul consiousness to God which at some level connects into the interior of everything.. a primordial ocean of some sort of collective consiousness… brings up the issue of an semi-potent god…

    many are atheistic in this respect…

    a primordial consiousness field does not necessarily have any leverage of matter..

    matter may just be it’s precipitate… in this semi-potent god analogy, it might be better to think of innumerable consiousness fields

    …

    January 30, 2008 at 5:49 pm #27197
    Dog
    Participant

    Haha, just a hologram and a magnetic field and a control panel and we got super preacher puppet..

    February 2, 2008 at 11:41 am #27199
    Michael Winn
    Keymaster

    Good point. Early Heaven refers to pre-womb field of consciousness. But physical womb time of 9 months is the “pre-natal” state of transition between formless and form. So chinese medicine and cosmologists might use them differently.

    I happen to totally agree with you on the semi-potency of the primordial. It has a primal awareness, but not causative control over the post-natal, where it has distributed its free will throughout that plane. That is why it’s only half the job to merely “transcend” this plane; the other half is to “cook” the primordial until pre, post, and primoridal planes integrate.

    m

    February 2, 2008 at 2:22 pm #27201
    Intelligence
    Participant

    http://www.csp.org/chrestomathy/brocas_brain.html

    this is somewhat related to the original post.. it’s Carl Sagan discussing Stanislov Graf’s work on different states of consiousness in the womb…

    i personally feel that while God is HOPEFUL, a semi-potent primordial consiousness is much better in the long run..

    if your soul can recycle, then the world is a theatre..

    and nothing is that bad.. (supposing this is true…)

    a primordial consiousness that is eternal leaves responsibility up to us here in this world, with the fall back that ultimately everything will be okay.. part of a life force consiousness flux…

    everything is OK ultimatelly without false expectations or dishing off of responsibility… nature takes it’s appropriate place as intermediary between the primordial and the theatre..

    nothing violates the laws of lifeforce, and souls are OK

    a nice paper on what this means seems in order… to contrast omnipotence with eternal life force flux

    in my opinion

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