February 7, 2007 at 11:44 am #20858
– you guys had a really interesting conversation on relationships and sex, pickup etc. and I missed it. I went through and made some comments on the PUA perspective – perhaps this is an end to discussion, perhaps beginning of new one, prefer latter.
I can preface this by saying I know little about PU community, plenty though about the kind of things they get up to. I approached it from a little bit different perspective.
i am intensely NOT attracted to a woman who i could “trick” into having sex with me within an hour of meeting her! don’t these lustful approaches only intensify the gender-rift inside the human psyche?
This assumes the gender-rift is ‘a bad thing’. It is the source of human creativity and is therefore not a bad thing. There must be something that we seek.
This is very fundamental, I hope I am understood here. You cannot have progress towards a goal without first being separated from that goal. And in trying to get to the goal you make something new that was not there before. That is the whole reason for humanity I think.
Meta sex is soul sex, or subtle sex, and the general rule is that it happens before you’ve ever had physical sex with someone. Which means you need a developed energy body to realize what it is, other than dumb lust
This is SO important! Don’t people realize that this happens all the time whether noticed and utilized or not? All those ‘looks’ and social dances around each other that occur between men and women *are already a form of sex*. Even Christ was onto this one, I think, somewhere in his oevre. You actually have a bodily response to those things, women and men alike. But you can go beyond the social convention that is set up around them. I’m sure PU respects this idea!
The question is, how conscious is non-physical sex? It is ALWAYS OCCURRING, even when it is unconscious. When it can be used consciously it is strong in effect, physical in effect.
I myself have seen a stripper (a pagan one natch!) channelling a well-known sex entity, a ‘goddess’ you could say. For the soul-centred, sex is very strong without even touching – provided there IS a body, which is what makes desire present. Those without bodies don’t have desires. They can easily be ‘perfect’ – but so what? As Lon Milo DuQuette says, ‘angels are stuck in divine middle management’.
When soul-centred the body can be fed FROM THE SOUL, rather than vice-versa. This can stretch to the other main bodily requirement – food – via ‘eating chi’ – why not to sex also?
When only inherited factors via genes are controlling the body, one needs manipulation. When these are transcended, ‘the game’ becomes completely different.
PUA is really centred on optimizing strategies for men in nightclub situations. It is good for a frustrated society but it is crude! There are infinitely subtler methods even for seducing. The Game can be much more interesting than the players are making it sound. So YES 1000 TIMES it depends what level you are on – and if it ever feels like you are ‘giving up something’ from the lower level in order to get to the higher one, you have the wrong idea.
As an aside, on the vexed question of the ‘don’t buy her flowers and dinners thing’ mentioned many times – I take a different view from the PUA one.
This practice by men began as a demonstration of POWER, of giving the materially insignificant woman a show of material goods and benificent largesse. When it came to be expected it lost some of its value – for women too remember! They came to see self-esteem in terms of the goods they could attract from men, so they started to feel like whores! When women came to have material-world presence gift-giving lost more power. When women saw completely through it and saw a man pretending, it lost any remaining power.
What would help anyone here is if they became expert at OBE – not that I am trying to say ‘my practice is superior’ or any similar bull. Just that if you once have the experience of talking to a non-spiritually-developed person whilst you are out of your body but they are still in theirs – you KNOW! The person never realizes that the words you say are coming from outside themselves, from you. They always think it’s just thoughts in their own head – UNLESS they have spiritual training.
Doesn’t the fact that you can put any thought in anyone’s head, and any feeling into their body, change ‘The Game’ for the more lunkheaded PUs?
The PUA community quite correctly says that if women get off because of what they do then both sexes benefit. But nobody seems to realize that on both sides it is merely conditioning that is standing in the way – not ‘things as they are’, but ‘things as humanity’s fear of love has made them’.
Yes, the truth about things is that the whole system is put together for DNA replication
I hope everyone noted that this was already answered. The whole point of being spiritually trained is that the body no longer leads the dance of DNA. This DNA is *ancestrally inherited* – if you *truly* get over ancestral issues the DNA does what YOU tell IT. OR as Michael says:
Does the alphabet control our speech, or do we control the alphabet in order to express something deeper? Michael
– conveniently failing to mention that for most people, the alphabet DOES in fact control their speech. That again is the point of training – that you express your thoughts, they don’t express you. The average londoner has, I’m told, a vocabulary of 1800 words – Shakespeare actually *invented* that number. DNA is another language used for controlling some relations between soul and body. Start working with it *consciously*.
Once you have sex, you are into the core channel of someone else’s body, and the soul is watching, waiting to see if the other half of the mirror recognizes itself at that moment.
Correct! No further comment!
What the PUAs don’t see is that they are in some ways fucking themselves. I leave that comment unexplained to see if people are paying any attention…
love to all, NNFebruary 7, 2007 at 12:02 pm #20859February 7, 2007 at 12:06 pm #20861
now that I pushed the wrong button unconsciously, or maybe it was consciously unconsciously, I better say what I wished to say yesterday:
‘good to see you back Nnonnth’February 7, 2007 at 3:07 pm #20863
I missed ya! love NNFebruary 7, 2007 at 6:31 pm #20865
for more details see below – other postingFebruary 7, 2007 at 7:28 pm #20867
SCREW DA SPRAY SCUM BAGS!!!
talk show on chemtrails over los angeles – everybody listen goddamit!!!
[audio src="http://126.96.36.199/parchive/mp3/kpfk_070207_140222kpfkserials.mp3" /]February 8, 2007 at 1:05 pm #20869
Ah, the silver tongued magician himself has been magically attracted back to the forum.
A form of cyber-sex must be happening, since all energetic exchange has a sexual component….
Of course, it is always delightful to read someone who even mostly agrees with you. But I think you went further, sharp perceptions on the spiritual reality of who controls DNA/language vs. the culturally controlled types who haven’t yet awakened to that responsibility.
And especially important, your point about soul directs and creates the body and infuses it. This is consonant with Taoist idea of growing your soul presence (immortal embryo, inner sage, etc.) within a maturing body-mind.
Opposite of Christian notions of frail human minds trying to save our soul thru faith or Buddhists notions of slaying the mind in order for the soul to escape this sex-addicted prison planet grinding wheel of life. The soul is always in charge here, we are simply unconscious of it. And I accept that the soul is a free-willed expression of a higher collective. The notion of its Bad Karma to be born human is ultimately just a self-judgment better dissolved.
I do note that Plato, having taken at least a temporary vow of celibacy, is following the method that I found worked best for me. When something controls you, you have to stop doing it for long enough to see that your compulsive habit is a choice.
I went celibate for one year to prove I wasn’t run by my hormones/balls/DNA. Then had sex with a lovely Norwegian lady (I love that country, anything close to the Noth Pole). That was when I realized that even though the sex was lovely, I by myself was more profound than the sex, and didn’t need it.
Then I went celibate for two years, while experimenting with different internal sexual practices. Hint to PU artists: if you want to drive a woman crazy, just announce you are celibate, ie. not interested in women. A significant percentage will do their best to prove you are wrong…..by attempting to seduce you.
Anyway, at the end of two years of celibacy, I realized I could now have a sexual relationship that was more or less conscious. But celibacy gets you hyper-sensitive to possible soul-attracted partners. I found one at a Taoist retreat, actually a couple of them (that ‘s a story for another time).
So to take the dialogue one step further: once you are having sex, you are sharing core channel space with another soul and there is the possibility of recognizing that both souls are arising from the same source/field, there is still the question:
DOES THIS MULTUAL SELF-RECOGNITION and ACCEPTANCE CREATE A RESPONSIBILITY?
It is undoubtedly a moment usually labelled “love”. But then the confusion arises: what happens next?
How does a moment of pure soul truth relate to the morass of culturally confused relationships, economic and politcally designed marriage customs, etc. ?
Too a big a question for me to answer at this moment. But it is why I believe a sexual cultivation practice is useful or even essentiala to someone who wants to go beyond celibacy and engage in sex with others or between the male-female polarities of the soul.
Loving my soul-infused body,
michaelFebruary 8, 2007 at 5:26 pm #20871
>>sharp perceptions on the spiritual reality of who controls DNA/language vs. the culturally controlled types who haven’t yet awakened to that responsibility.<>I went celibate for one year to prove I wasn’t run by my hormones/balls/DNA. Then had sex with a lovely Norwegian lady (I love that country, anything close to the Noth Pole).<>Hint to PU artists: if you want to drive a woman crazy, just announce you are celibate, ie. not interested in women<>DOES THIS MULTUAL SELF-RECOGNITION and ACCEPTANCE CREATE A RESPONSIBILITY?
How does a moment of pure soul truth relate to the morass of culturally confused relationships, economic and politcally designed marriage customs, etc. ?<<
The effect of this moment is to take you into a place where things can be exchanged beyond such idle biologically-inspired boredoms. I think it makes freedom, and as I say freedom=responsibility, so yes.
Then you're in, ahem, virgin territory… no rules except the ones you make. Or are you saying, how do you behave in public when in private you don't care about rules anyhow?
Is it our responsibility to prop up the structures by which other people stifle themselves? I don't know! The problem is that underneath those structures are still people just itching to get out – even if they aren't close to being 'real humans' as the taoists would say.
It's easier for a magician I think.
Nice to be understood!
love NNFebruary 9, 2007 at 11:10 am #20873
>>How does a moment of pure soul truth relate to the morass of culturally confused relationships, economic and politcally designed marriage customs, etc. ?<<
All these relationships are in place merely to perpetuate and spread connections to soul truth moments that already happened in the distant past. All orgasms that result in pregnancy are examples of such moments.
You are what you eat.
Western consumerism is supposed to appeal to baser instincts – not so! Actually advertising appeals to the soul via emotions and senses and things of beauty, which are what feed the soul. Of course then the person wonders why, if they buy the margarine, their soul doesn't feel fed! The actual feeding occurs during the advert and like all soul feeding it goes both ways.
Similarly with PU, it is very influenced by the culture of visual sex, porn, etc. The feeding here happens from the looking.
We often say when we are developing ourselves that we are trying to 'overcome' or resolve ancestral influences. We seem to forget why they are there. Piece by piece and link by link they connect back to the One, and the One sustains us at least partly through them. This goes both ways too. The family lines feed from us, and so of course do lineage lines in spiritual traditions.
You are what you eat, and what you eat also eats you.
What is called 'attachment' to things is actually a limited feeding pattern. If you feed from biological urges you find eventually they are insufficient to sustain progress. You must refresh them – from the soul. Then you realize it was the soul all along, habitually co-operating with the body. Or you don't – and you accept death.
Even the ideas of authority which keep society in place are worked by the same principal. Occupying a position of authority is in itself an energy source – hence tyranny. But if the person takes it too personally, it is a case of being out of alignment with the *true* source of all authority. So he is overthrown.
This all does relate to love. The moment of true recognition is a blow to the indirect feeding habits of the multitude. It is a question of being more directly sustained by the truth which does not inhabit a body but which sustains all bodies. It is a revolutionary act, at least as likely to overthrow the habitual, 'safe' (not so!) feeding patterns of society as it is to strengthen them. Christ would have agreed with me I'm sure, and alot of Taoists too – many of them made a virtue of the unconventional.
Lao-Tzu structures his work as advice to rulers on how to rule.
Humanity is sustained by networks of energy. Man doesn't live on bread alone. From where are you getting your daily feedings of love and beauty? Because that is how you sustain yourself and you also sustain that source due to being sustained by it. On a small scale, *habitual* family relationships with all their grumblings are still enough to sustain much love. But if the source is more present, there are more options for the soul on where it is to find love and truth.
The source of all is all-free, all-loving, responsible for all, and feeds all, and thus is sustained by all, and thus is accepting of all. It is not possible to 'go against' the Creator/Tao.
So these 'culturally confused relationships', 'customs' and so forth that you are talking about relate via different threads to the same thing. When inside these relationships you don't see that. Love allows you to move outside things you thought you needed, and rearrange not only what sustains you both, but society in general.
Huge images of love, romantic and sexual, are built up by the media but love is not normally found in reality without discipline. Nevertheless this love-entity that is built up in the groupmind will encourage more and more people to move beyond what is considered conventional. Pickup is an example of this.
I hope some of that made sense!
love NNFebruary 9, 2007 at 11:23 pm #20875
First of all, I want to say that I saw some of your photos and you’ve got a lot of balls sitting out on that tree branch. I wouldn’t do that!
My celibacy is interesting. I meditate a lot doing a kind of empty-minded Heaven and Earth Kan and Li form I learned from a new teacher I study with from China and I have refined my own version of a pranayama practice I will be posting on my blog soon.
I am starting to attract some interesting broads into my life with the whole celibacy thing…
BTW, I don’t know if you ever can overcome your DNA. Even an immortal has a type of DNA and he is a slave to that programming. I think Krishnamurti said it best when he said that when your body transforms, not even heaven knows what will be the result.February 10, 2007 at 10:50 am #20877
>>an immortal has a type of DNA and he is a slave to that programming<<
He can still change that programming because it is working with him and he with it, they are partners in co-creation. NNFebruary 10, 2007 at 5:17 pm #20879
In order to become “immortal,” one transmutes those patterns that are held in the organ spirits. That’s the meaning of the word. One is no longer stuck in unconsciousness left over from the past. And, yes, like Nnonnth says, it is about relationship and communication.February 13, 2007 at 1:35 am #20881
I think that having sex with a lot of people is important on the level of life completion, but the danger lies in joining with many half conscious people, picking up their emotional garbage and not being able to move to the next level (transform your own unconsciousness). This may be why those types of relationaships are never long term: people can’t transform their emotional trash to work on the level of spirit after they have fully satiated the sexual aspect.
When one can join with someone that reflects their own level of self-recognition of the divine through soul sex, then sexuality moves to another level.
Societal networks of social interaction and images that reflect the “universal female and universal male” of the collective self are also important but can be a dead end in and of themselves. The key is to bring enough neutral force to the table so you can recognize your own true source, and maybe join with others in doing the same. Everyone carries a spark of the original self but not everyone chooses to experience that fully here, or make that a part of the reality here for others to realize in themselves as well.February 13, 2007 at 11:48 am #20883
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