August 30, 2006 at 12:18 am #17103
My, how impatient the inner children of some adults become when their question is not immediately answered…
This is the pitfall of mass communication (i.e. CD Audio course) when you are not present and able to ask questions that have simple answers. Audio tapes are not a perfect way to transmit alchemical experience, and obviously falls short when someone is too strongly in their head and not doing enough qigong to shift to whole body-mind.
Yes, I was busy enjoying myself at the National Qigong Association conference over the weekend, after closing up Dao Mtn. Great conference, lots of sharing and loving community amongst Qi Lovers, talent from all traditions and schools openly sharing without ego or secrecy games. Ken Cohen gave a nice keynote, and discovered Madame Wang Yang (weight loss qigong at dao mtn) had the same tai chi teacher in China as his teacher….the connections were fun, and endless.
But now to answer the question.
First, let’s be clear: Intelligence and Digdug are obviously two voices coming from the same being. (no wendy, not ron). intelligence has had the grace to email me and apologize for his name-calling. Its probably time for both sides of his ego to take a temporary vacation from the forum and do something more body-centered for a bit. Cyberspace is great for some things, but can become a cerebral whirlpool for some that is hard to escape.
Second, its apparent the Questioner has not completed the Greater CD course, as clear instructions are given as a progressive training to extend the line of resonance from vital organ spirits through the Spirits of the Directions out to the planets, using a variety of specific methods, including toning. Probably the first part of CD 1 was not recorded, due to some cosmic quirk. The CDs cannot record all 40 hours of the course, only about half the material, hopefully the heart of it. You get what you pay for, but it isn’t the whole enchilada.
Venus has a surface temp of 400 degrees. It IS hot and IS White colored to the naked eye by objective scientific standards, although that is basically irrelevant to this practice.
The answers given by Bagua and others about using the healing sounds are also sufficient methods to extend the resonant pathways already built – similar to any esoteric system. You develop a small skill and then learn to extend it, break your old envelop, grow your energy body. The process takes time, just like all organic growth in the physical plane. You haven’t allowed that time and repetition and are probably not yet ready, I suggest working on dropping any excess heart-fire yang arrogance that is demanding results be delivered on a silver platter yesterday. A way of saying you lack the RECEPTIVITY essential to tuning into the planetary shen.
Are they real? Do you need a photo? All of the five “movers” – the five planetary beings – had bodies that were visible to the ancients, and they could directly perceive their color with the naked eye as well. Their minds were undistracted by modern life, their jing was more full and could more easily FEEL their rest of their NATURAL body, the cosmos. Us moderns are weakened, we need to try harder. And longer.
The jing of your Po Soul is what resonantes with the collective Po Soul of Humanity “stored” in Venus. This is soul vibration, not intellectual scientific knowledge. But that scientific knowledge can still be useful – just order in the NASA Music of the Planets series and play each planet’s tones to know with your phyusical ears that each planet DOES HAVE ITS OWN TONE. Just like Kepler said it did…
Undoubtedly, there is valid basis to your question. The metal /gold element is the least physically intuitive of all the five elements/phases. It is the one that gives people the most trouble. So let go of the physical level of resonance, focus on the subtle soul resonance.
What is most interesting about Venus is that many traditions in the West consider it the planet through which the individual human ego-centered consciouisness was birthed. Just do a search on the 144,000 souls that were allegedly stepped down through Venus – the higher stellar minds of the Tao need embodied frequencies like planets to focus their braod powers of creativity. That is the fundamental reason that astrology works.
If you want to explore why completely different astrological systems can work, buy UNDER ONE SKY by Rafi Nasser, also one of my kan & li students. Sold thru Seven Paws Press. 12 Astrologers from different systems, using one chart, read blindly. The chart happens to be that of my wife, Joyce Gayheart. So I know her story better than anyone but her – but she writes up her life story, and you can read her version of her life and compare it to 12 different asstrologers as to what her life SHOULD have been like according to their reading of the planets.
Four of them were right on the mark, brilliant insghts into her. Four were terrible. Four were mixed.
You need to educaste yourself, Intelligence-Digdug, about the relation between alchemy and astrology, which is found in both eastern and western systems. Let know of your petty intellect, ask your Po soul to open itself to communication with Venus.
Don’t project what it feels like, just be open, and quiet, like Fajin suggests. But have a clear inention that you want to communicate. Its likely your Po soul is not ready for the communication, it might feel overwhelmed. You excess heart fire has a controlling/weakening effect on your lung spirit, so you are likely particularly blocked.
And the issue is likely expressing itself in other areas of your life – as the inability to breathe in and wholly accept the limitations of having a personal body and personal -individuating ego. That is what alchemy is about – refining the weakest element/soul aspect of the self, until it is willing to ascend past the planets and intgrate into the greater self. That is refining lead into gold. So don’t be disappointed that your lung spirit is still heavy as lead – just recognize the opportunity and keep practicing. And it will help to listen to the rest of th course.
enjoy your vacation,
MichaelAugust 30, 2006 at 2:24 am #17104
Thank you for your explanations.
It does seem to me Intelligence/Digdug really needs to apologise more directly to the people he has offended (or attempted to offend/annoy, more to the point) on this forum.
Still loving my fruit.
Emelgee.August 30, 2006 at 2:39 am #17106August 30, 2006 at 2:45 am #17108
“First, let’s be clear: Intelligence and Digdug are obviously two voices coming from the same being. (no wendy, not ron). ”
Lets also be clear that you have apparently never bothered to check names and addresses NOR do you have any idea who I practice with and to what end..
Need I remind you how many times you have been flat out wrong before concerning issues like Khabbalah and the Tree of Life.. or axiatonals. You do not know Rob nor do you know the various groups and systems I personally work with or acquaintences, or our own systems of energy channeling and elements (aside from a random contact here and there)
your own ego and judgements of “others” as hierarchical have also been appeared to be an obvious impediment
“intelligence has had the grace to email me and apologize for his name-calling. ”
I wrote and stated that your forum is filled with what I and MANY other would call new age fluff heads and then apologized for bringing conflict, I never told anyone they were a “chosen dog” although plenty of others did the same regardless of me and before my presence. Science is not subjective and proof less.. it developed out of a need to do away with subjective proofless things like religions
perhaps they are off channeling their hair dryers this evening
“Second, its apparent the Questioner has not completed the Greater CD course
as clear instructions are given as a progressive training to extend the line of resonance from vital organ spirits through the Spirits of the Directions out to the planets, using a variety of specific methods, including toning.
Probably the first part of CD 1 was not recorded, due to some cosmic quirk. ”
so Venus is a cool dry metal chi ball floating in space and that will let me teleport to it. It seems like at the point where you teleported to it you would see how warm and moist it is and that that would be it’s chi field just like the water in the river or fire in the sun in fusion practices and then you could tell other people about it like Rob so they could channel it
“Venus has a surface temp of 400 degrees. It IS hot and IS White colored to the naked eye by objective scientific standards, although that is basically irrelevant to this practice”
apparently so is science
Somehow physical water is cool and wet and so is it’s chi and those are vitally interelated but venus is hot and moist and it’s chi isn’t and that doesn’t matter? maybe so maybe not.. but various other systems certainly said it was. This was Rob’s question not mine… consider it mine at this point.. it’s the best forum question I’ve seen so far
“The answers given by Bagua and others about using the healing sounds are also sufficient methods to extend the resonant pathways already built – similar to any esoteric system. You develop a small skill and then learn to extend it, break your old envelop, grow your energy body. The process takes time, just like all organic growth in the physical plane. ”
Are they real? Do you need a photo? All of the five “movers” – the five planetary beings – had bodies that were visible to the ancients, and they could directly perceive their color with the naked eye as well. Their minds were undistracted by modern life, their jing was more full and could more easily FEEL their rest of their NATURAL body, the cosmos. Us moderns are weakened, we need to try harder. And longer.”
Sounds like a myth if you ask me.. ancients who were jingier.. So were they able to channel knowledge that Saturn had rings moons etc? where is the proof that they were contacting anything? If you sit there silently and tone some sound and think of an earth ball in some direction in space because the light in the sky is yellow, what is the return? An image? A feeling? The knowledge that it has moons? Where is the proof of any of that? Rob simply asked people what their return was and whether they actually found a real planet in the real sky to work with (which would make normal sense) It sure seems like it would be essential.
“The jing of your Po Soul is what resonantes with the collective Po Soul of Humanity “stored” in Venus. This is soul vibration, not intellectual scientific knowledge.”
this is more anti-smart anti-science… smarts and science brought us heat in the winter and food in the famine, they are definitely real with real results
“But that scientific knowledge can still be useful – just order in the NASA Music of the Planets series and play each planet’s tones to know with your phyusical ears that each planet DOES HAVE ITS OWN TONE. ”
listened to it when I was 6.. a real voyage to a physical planet via a nice nasa ship would be great.. who said the sound wave radiation octave conversion was correct..
“That is refining lead into gold. So don’t be disappointed that your lung spirit is still heavy as lead – just recognize the opportunity and keep practicing. And it will help to listen to the rest of the course”
Oh well.August 30, 2006 at 2:50 am #17110August 30, 2006 at 3:08 am #17112
we have been misunderstanding *you* this whole time. How strange I didn’t notice this earlier…
EmelgeeAugust 30, 2006 at 9:16 am #17114
Intelligence me old mucker, you are very bad tempered. I recommend: If you don’t like the forum go somewhere else. You have spent an awful long time here and for what? If you think everyone on the forum is a fool why are you so desperate to talk to them? Why not just leave them to their fooleries and go forth to this greater truth to which you feel you have access?
I laughed when I read this:
>>smarts and science brought us heat in the winter and food in the famine, they are definitely real with real results<>In summer he would stuff cotton and wool into his clothing; in winter he would lie naked on the ice and blow hot breath from his mouth.<<
– Eva Wong writing of Lan T'sai-ho in 'Tales of the Taoist Immortals'.
Best wishes NNAugust 30, 2006 at 11:48 am #17116
What is said on the cd is that you are to sense this planet floating in space charged with this element and the instruction goes so far as to say that you can sense Saturn’s rings.
Now, I if you ask any general person (friend, family member etc)
if they can pretend/feel/imagine the sun is inside of themselves full of warm glowing sunniness, they say sure.
If you tell them to do the same thing with Venus or Saturn, they immediately think of a picture they have seen.
If you tell them to feel it like water or fire or whatever they just give up. Most people respond that this is just tricking your mind. And many feel that the whole “golden elixir) is simply tricking yourself into feeling better.
But still I persist.
Now if the sun is hot and fire and full of love, and the moon is cool and wet and sun regulates fire and moon regulates water, then how come Venus is supposed to be cool and dry when it’s actually warm and moist.
Why do modern day western occultists say it’s warm and wet?
If you ask anyone sensible about the planets they would say that the common sense thing to do would be to focus on their ture physical location, not some “elemental spirit direction”
They then immediately notice the obvious contradiction in regards to Venus.. all the other elements match their physical qualities, why not it?
The obvious first answer having listened to the CD, is that you could see these planets in the sky and the someone thought it was metal because it’s white.
That doesn’t mean it is OR that they ever connected to it.
Now if you are really teleporting to Venus, then what about how warm and moist it’s TRUE sensation is? If you were to do the fusion riverbank exercise with Venus it would be warm moist chi.
Why is everyone dancing around this question?
I could care less who you “think” I am, I asked a perfectly good question and was polite until insulted.August 30, 2006 at 7:45 pm #17118
It seems you share the same mindset about modern science that Intelligence does: that psychic data has to be identical to sensory data in its method of validation.
If you believe western empirical science, based on sensory measurement is the only ultimate validation of anything, you should stick to it. And use it as your guide in life. I wish you a fruitful journey skating across the veneer of the physical plane with Intelligence. Would that qualify you as Quantum New Agers, with no fluff -because you’ve got hard science data to buttress every perception of your mind?
I suggest you begin by experimenting with quantum physic claims that two electrons at opposite ends of the universe. If you believe science is “true”, then test it experientially and locate your alter-ego electrons at the far end of the universe.
Daoism has a similar “field” theory they call chi, only they ascribe intelligence to it, and knowable patterns of yin-yang and five phases. If you don’t believe the field is intelligent or has knowable patterns, time to begin questioning whether the rest of universe is connected to your own body-mind. Or invent a different system that works for you.
If you want to explore spiritual science I suggest you test the practices that atrract you until they work. If you conclude that they do not or cannot work for you, find another one. I am certainly not attached to your using the methods I have found effective.
But please rely on your intuition to choose your next method, as there is no objective, external “scientific” guide – only a series of scientific hypotheses driven by cultural and linguisitic presuppositions, i.e. a different belief system. Read Kuhn Theory of Scientific Revolutions to go deeper into that topic.
The fundamentally flawed assumption in your question is that everyone responds identically to the same stimulus. This is the premise of western science – that every experimental technique, if objectively true, results in the exact same result. If the results don’t match everyone else’s, it is thrown out.
Spiritual science works on the opposite assumption: that each individual mind is unique and responds uniquely to same stimulus. You can sit under the same sun as me, five feet away, and feel hot, while I proclaim it is cool because I am tuning into a different layer of the sun’s field. A mercury thermometer is irrelevant to our subjective experience – that is a quantity, not a qualitative experience.
Spiritual development offered by inner alchemy is individual, not robotic nor “one size fits all”. If you cannot get a resonance with Venus, work with the totality of the planets via fusion to see if you can feel that and then digest it.
Different occultists can develop different systems that all produce effective results as a whole, even though the details of those systems appear to contradict each other. The energy body is totally elastic, and can be programmed in any way your free will chooses. All that matters in the end is that integration is achieved.
Just examine the plethora of Indian chakra systems and associated resonant patterns, colors, and functions.
The Chinese, by contrast, show amazing continuity over thousands of years – not making them more right, but simply meaning that there is a clearer pathway for the collective of their society to use should they choose to.
Your comments suggest that you have not built the fundamental skills of the preliminary courses and thus may be frustrated with the level you are listening to. I have stepped down my level of practice many, many times to better understand the pathways between the limited sensory mind and the larger chi field. So sometimes retracement is essential to future forward progress.
If you don’t like the Daoist theory of field resonance, or the subjective latitude it allows the practitioner, and believe that the quantum theory of electrons dancing at a distance is different, I would be delighted to learn of your finding a new way to experience that dance.
MichaelAugust 30, 2006 at 11:08 pm #17120
Please no offense,
there are so many levels of things.. the formulas are wonderful if, at bare minimum relaxation, clarity of mind, calm
and planetary magnetic fields definitely could/may be cranially resonantAugust 30, 2006 at 11:12 pm #17122
My apologies, as already expressed nearly a month ago for calling you a dip****..
I did not realize you were a female for one, and two, was basically sifting through a a ton of posts growing ever more despondent with the forum members when my first reponse to one was , “wow, what a dip****””.. and so I posted it, intending to duke it out with a forum member…
I must say I never attacked anyone’s genetics though by calling them a “Chosen Dog”
MY original login name choices were unavailable and so I went hmm, how about “intelligence”.. I’ll challenge everyone on board to the principles and science of the whole thing..August 31, 2006 at 9:31 am #17124
You did not insult me because I have no understanding of what a ‘chosen dog’ is.
And even a ‘dip whatever’ is not hurting because it means little to nothing to me.
As you figure English/American is not my mother tongue.
The insult lies in the fact people are not able to accept the ‘difference’, the ‘different’ other.
Challenge is good if it is in service, to enhance each other.
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