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- This topic has 47 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 2 months ago by Nnonnth.
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August 30, 2007 at 10:49 pm #24042DogParticipant
First, thanks yall for your input. We have seen from the sex survey posted not to long ago, people actions look the same but there motives are different. There are some common underlining drives they might have but at a certain level it manifests differently. I do feel we limit ourselve by our preconcived notions, but thats not the labels fault, it is fine to label some thing if you feel a specific quality from some thing that needs a specific word to note it. I have a self but my idea of self is expanding. With out differentiation there would be no harmony or mastery. It is an intersting dance freedom and unity. I am still looking at what structures might attract this types of person as well as structures that promote its quality. In feeling out the motive behind centertain common institutions you get a feeling for what quality the institution promotes and what often it is used for. As we know we can use certain structures to promote certain qualities. This Is easier to see in a bar or a bank. It is little harder to do when its a relationship structure. It is even harder to listen to the truth about why we us a certain thing. I could say well I just like to research allot in the news, but when I listen I find I am using it to ignore my practice. I really like hanging out with my friends allot, if I listen it is because they keep me from home work. These are just examples. The truth of why you do something is your own, of course there are people that can listen to your shen even though we can not. So what ever amory, or gamy your in to there will be some common trends but there will also be something very personal. I mainly see these things as reflective of someting going on inside which I like to look at. I think the kidneys will all be happier in the future as we become more accepting of options and more curagest in your persuite of happness and find more sexual completion internally, it might even help with immune diseases(well that and getting toxins out of the the water). That all I can think of at the moment.
Peace
JulianAugust 30, 2007 at 11:04 pm #24044DogParticipantSorry to press with questions I thouhgt I should not because of your situation. I am gladd you responded. I honnor that attempt to free the heart. I will not press any more.
warm smiles 🙂
JulianAugust 31, 2007 at 2:02 pm #24046wendyParticipantYou are always free to ask. I wished I could enlighten you better, but there are many levels to one story and it would take too many words.
Nevertheless this whole “experiment” is bringing us closer together as a couple, with a renewed pair of eyes, and at the same time opens up more layers of ‘life’… this would take a whole essay. And I am not in talking mood. But feel free, any time…August 31, 2007 at 3:11 pm #24048Alexander AlexisParticipantJ- I do see that it is possible to have some small degree of fulfillment and growth through talking about things. The problem is that we are very lost in the mental functions and there is no functional conclusion that can come from it. Most stop there, for the most part, and not do the internal work which is needed for completion. Verbal exchange can, at best, be used as a “lead in” to the deeper spaces of the heart, and, in fact, I am sure that is the only good use of it. As Li Daochun says below- “…to convey mind, by mind.”
I have included below two most interesting sections from The Book Of Balance And Harmony (trans Cleary) to elucidate my feelings on this subject. Here is the first:
from section 20-
Veiled WordsBuddhist literature says that if people want to know all the Buddhas of the past, present, and future, they should see that the natures of the world of phenomenon are all created by the mind. This means that when there is creation, then there is change; creation and change both derive from mind.
People think that what creates and changes myriad beings is the fashioner of creation and change, but I do not agree. There is basically no fashioner of creation and change. This is what I call self-creation and self-change.
The forms of all in the world that has form are originally nonexistent. Producing existence where there was none is called creation. When there is production, then there is destruction; when there is destruction, there is reversion to nonexistence. This is called change. Repeated creation and change is the norm for beings.
The essence of the unique reality is fundamentally existent; it exists but has no form, so it has no creation or change. This is the norm of the Dao. People only know it has no creation or change, and think it does not create or change- they do not know there is great creation and change existing therein.
Who can know this without clear understanding? Those with clear understanding, those whose knowledge and wisdom are perfected, are able to see al phenomenon as empty of absoluteness. Then the unified mind returns to tranquillity, and lives independently in a transcendent state. Therefore there is no creation or change for them.
Those who do not clearly understand are eternally fixated on body, mind, society, and events; and they inwardly dwell on sensations, conception, actions, and consciousness. Therefore they change along with the world, are born and perish along with forms.
What the eye sees is called form; received in the mind, it is called sensation. Once taken into the mind in the form of a mental picture, it is called conception. When conception continues, it leads to doing; this is called action. The result of action, conforming to the good or bad nature of the action, is called conditioned consciousness. The flurry of conditioned consciousness is the root of routine existence. Thus it is impossible to get out of creation and change.
Anyone who is not bound by illusory objects, not defiled by the impact of phenomenon, not obstructed by wandering feelings, and not afflicted by craving, will then be able to see forms, sensations, conceptions, actions, and conditioned consciousness as empty of ultimate reality. Since these are empty, how can there be creation and change? This is what the Buddhists call the ineffable mind of nirvana.
This is the final section in his book:
Throughout the ages people have fixated on unreal objects in the midst of dreamlike illusion, forming the seeds of repetitious life cycles. Therefore they are born and die without hope of release.
If, on the other hand, people in the midst of these dreamlike illusory objects can experientially know them for what they are, and thus dissolve fixations, they can reach enlightenment.
One day I brought up this issue for my students to look into. Two or three of them understood to some extent, so I composed this essay for them, to convey mind by mind.
If you can realize directly, inwardly understand and tacitly comprehend, then you know how and where to stop, not recounting the past, not worrying about the future, not being attached to the present. When these three are combined, you attain great independence, you roam freely in the ocean of tranquillity, wander in the homeland of nothing whatsoever, float in the realm of contentment.
When you get to this point, you will know that creation and change have no power over you. But there is still something yet higher. Tell me, what do you call that which is higher? Turn over the legs of nothingness, smash cosmic space to smithereens, and only then will you be done.
August 31, 2007 at 3:12 pm #24050Alexander AlexisParticipantAugust 31, 2007 at 3:24 pm #24052NnonnthParticipantI’ve always disliked the Buddhist doctrines and if you admire them that would explain why we don’t see eye to eye. I could reply further but there’s no point. Thanks for taking the time though! 🙂 j
August 31, 2007 at 3:42 pm #24054Alexander AlexisParticipant…I do not particularly admire them- certainly not above Daoist works which is what The Book Of Balance And Harmony is.
August 31, 2007 at 4:14 pm #24056NnonnthParticipantAugust 31, 2007 at 6:48 pm #24058NnonnthParticipantIt’s a quote but I won’t attribute it… guess away if anyone wants haha.
The Universe is Change; every Change is the
Effect of an Act of Love; All Acts of Love
contain Pure Joy. Die daily.
Death is the apex of one curve of the snake Life:
Behold all opposites as necessary compliments,
And rejoiceSeptember 1, 2007 at 1:17 am #24060Alexander AlexisParticipantI’m beginning to form the opinion that you just like to argue, Jason. Am I right?
September 1, 2007 at 7:53 am #24062NnonnthParticipant… no doubt about it. j
September 1, 2007 at 9:12 am #24064voiceParticipant“This is the Harmony of the Universe, that Love unites the Will to create with the Understanding of that Creation: understand thou thine own Will. Love and let love. Rejoice in every shape of love, and get thy rapture and thy nourishment thereof”
Book of Thoth, Aleister Crowley
I really like that – doing and listening, yang and yin, and bliss thusly arises.
September 1, 2007 at 9:38 am #24066NnonnthParticipant… eros is the passion for change. I see tao as mating of change with changeless, but I don’t get hung up on the word ‘tao’. j
September 1, 2007 at 10:12 am #24068wendyParticipantWhat in your feeling is ‘changeless’?
September 1, 2007 at 11:25 am #24070NnonnthParticipant… sorry if that seems lame! j
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