December 8, 2005 at 4:03 pm #9291
Since there is a lot of discussion about sitting and watching, which is essentially Taoist yin practice, I thought I would drop this email (received earlier this year) into the cauldron. Kuman takes yin practice to the extreme within the taoist context. But at least he balances it with qigong. But even so, you will note the possible dangers, see email below.
My point is that yin practice is really great for excess yang westerners in the beginning, but after a while it can be bad for your progress, i.e. take you out of balance. Same is true with any JUST WATCHING practice from any tradition – my position is that it can only take you so far, then you need to become more proactive to continue developing.
The story related below is not much different from numeorus zen practitioners who have come to me over the years with problems from excess sitting.
So that is why the type of taoist alchemy I teach is Water and Fire.
You start with dissolving, clearing, detoxifying, letting go (Inner Smile, Healing Sounds/5 Animals). Then you begin to learn to actively balance the two (orbiit).
Then you begin to develop skill with managing hte psychie/ego and its relaitons tot he life force (fusion). Then you shift that skill to become more multi-dimensional (kan & li) and work at deeper levels of the human body-mind/jing level.
At any level, according to your body type and disposition, situation in life, you use more yin or yang practices.
—— Forwarded Message
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:35:44
Subject: Water method
I …..run a studio teaching Taoist body work. I am contacting you with
regard to your article re: the Water method vs Fire controversy. Which
incidentally I think is one of those non starters like the specific or
non specific state of hypnosis argument.
I thought for a long time that I was the only person who had doubts about Bruce’s WATER METHOD, which I think clearly is a part of something greater. I have had my doubts about Bruce’s water teaching and the negative sides of a one sided approach to practice.
Not only this I have taught many, many people who had found dissolving very difficult unless I acted as a guide to them by talking them into a dissolved state during sessions. ( leading to a dependence on me ) This initially got my attention, I on the other hand had an instant and deep response to the water method idea where as many people I have taught struggled.
My dominant element is fire and so the dissolving process was a huge relief
from my career and ambition driven dilemma. Although I have always had a
natural skill with movement, I have been a pro-dancer, and kick-boxer
and have studied martial arts since the age of 13, I was really self
combusting at an alarming rate. The water method for me was permission
to get out of the endless game. I thank Bruce wholeheartedly for this
I must admit at the other end of the scale that Mantak Chia’s emphasis
on Fire, Yang practices and sex was a turn off to his work for me. But I
was also under the sway of the Frantzis mantra. You do address this in
your article too.
Primarily I had been teaching B.K. Frantzis material with his
permission. I now view Bruce’s work in a different light and have come
across many obstacles over the validity of some of his strategies, some
of which I am in agreement with and others that I clearly do not. I am
one of the oldest B.K people.
Thank you for the article. I will try to make this brief as I am apt to
I am in agreement with your article and I would like to add to your
frozen state analogy. In my personal experience I took the water method
to heart and turned my life 180 degrees. However after years of this
method I lost my creative expression and ambition to succeed. My talent
for movement became stagnant, and indeed this passivity simply made me
indifferent to myself.
I would describe this state as stagnant like a
pool that needs some fresh oxygenated running water to cleanse it. I
gave up on things I would have fought to overcome in the past. Realising
this I would self reflect even more. Mmmmm. I see this pattern
emerging in people who are now devoting inordinate time to his water
method and it is a shame. The irony of all this being that Bruce has
been devouring Dzogchen Teachings like a hungry ghost for many years now
and uses Dzogchen as a synonym for Taoist alchemy.
I have had no compulsion to study meditation with Bruce and still do
not. I have always felt that if I wanted Chi Gung he is the man, but for
spiritual practice he is not. My own research led me to the Dzogchen
teachings of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu and I have had very good experiences
with the work. It turns out that Bruce had already been there and moved
I will cut this short now. I would like to interview you for my website
at some point if you are interested and link to your article? I would
like to try to some extent to open up some dialogue to get balance on
these issues so that people can be informed and not fall into the Bruce
propaganda emporium. He has slowly become the thing he says he does not
want to be, which is his inability to take responsibility for his
creation. Hiding behind the image of Liu Hung Chieh. He has become a
Guru by default.
By the way I must say that I am not an anti-Bruce campaigner, I have
defended and do defend him even now, he is a fine teacher, with what I
have experienced as superb energetic skill, and I would even study more
if he dropped the act.
Thought you might like to know that your article was a relief and thanks
for writing it.
—— End of Forwarded Message
December 14, 2005 at 3:22 am #9292
If there is fire gate and there is water gate, then there are eight gates of Kumar’s bagua.
By Jamie Dibdin:
“THE SPIRALLING ENERGY BODY
Again please refer to Energy Arts Inc. website for a full description.
This is generally the most powerful of B.K.Frantzis Chi Gungs and is only taught at retreats.I must emphasize that I do not teach this set and will not be offering it as a weekend seminar at all.
THIS IS THE SET THAT REPRESENTS THE FIRE ELEMENT in Bruce’s Taoist Water Method of Chi Gung. First students are given a personalised posture which is designed to open as many of their Chi Channels as possible.
Next you learn how to start initiating the upward current of energy from the earth and how to generate spirals of energy at the Dantian.It is essential that prospective students of this method have practised the Outer Dissolving technique and the rest of the Energy Gates set before beginning this process,as this is the best protection against any potential problems that can arise.
Other topics include how to neutralise both your own and environmental negative energy states and how to use the energy developed by this set to power the movements of the Energy Gates movements.”
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