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Process Theologian on 9/11 & question of Evil

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Home › Forum Online Discussion › General › Process Theologian on 9/11 & question of Evil

  • This topic has 3 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 18 years, 8 months ago by uroburro.
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  • September 10, 2006 at 4:43 pm #17849
    Michael Winn
    Keymaster

    I was surprised to learn that David Ray Griffin, author of The New Pearl Harbor, was deep into something
    called Process Theology, that if you substituted Life Force for God would be very similar to many streams of Taoism.

    On the eve of 5th annivaersary of 9-11, appropriate to air the views of a Process Theologian who believes the govt. committed Evil in order to propagate Empire.
    michael

    UNQUESTIONED ANSWERS
    NONCONSPIRACY THEORIST DAVID RAY GRIFFIN TAKES AIM AT THE OFFICIAL 9-11
    STORY
    By Steve Bhaerman (Swami Beyondananda)
    bohemian.com
    June 14-20, 2006

    http://www.bohemian.com/bohemian/06.14.06/david-ray-griffin-0624.html

    About 10 years ago, I was asked to perform comedy at a conference I quickly
    dubbed “the Paranoids Conference.” Each presenter had a dark tale to tell of
    abductions, drug running, assassinations and other nefarious horrors too
    terrible to mention. There were whispers of government agents in our midst,
    so when it was my turn to perform, I said I was with the CIA. I paused while
    the audience gasped. “That’s the Comedians Institute of America.” It got a
    laugh, but no amount of laughter could counterbalance the toxicity of the
    atmosphere. I couldn’t wait to leave.

    Fast forward to a sunny Sunday afternoon early last year when I found myself
    in Santa Rosa’s Church of the Rose to hear Dr. David Ray Griffin, author of
    a book on the 9-11 attacks called The New Pearl Harbor, as well as The 9-11
    Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions. Griffin, a soft-spoken retired
    professor of theology with sandy, graying hair, proceeded to calmly and
    quietly dismantle the official 9-11 story. The room was filled to standing
    with people of all ages, many of whom attended the church. As Griffin made
    his case for how the official story could never have happened the way they
    said it did, I looked around me. Everyone was riveted, and yet I could
    detect no fear, no paranoia in the room.

    People were hearing his message — the essentials of which are that our
    government likely knew about or had something to do with the 9-11 attacks —
    and yet there was something about his delivery that was reassuring. I’ve
    heard David Ray Griffin twice since then, once at a small gathering of world
    government advocates, the other time at the prestigious Commonwealth Club in
    San Francisco. Each event had a similar ambiance: a calm, thoughtful,
    scholarly presentation without the least hint of sensationalism or personal
    glory.

    Whatever one’s assumption of what a “conspiracy theorist” is like, David Ray
    Griffin doesn’t fit the mold, perhaps because he’s really a nonconspiracy
    theorist. While he methodically deconstructs the official story, he doesn’t
    spin his own alternative yarn to fill the vacuum. Instead, he allows
    audience members to draw their own conclusions. As for conspiracy theories,
    he explains, “the official story is itself a conspiracy theory. As the
    accepted ‘conspiracy theory’ goes, a cadre of al Qaida operatives conspired
    to hijack four jetliners, did so undetected and were able to complete their
    mission with no interception or even interference from the best-prepared air
    force on the face of the earth.”

    Even more unusual, Griffin says, “the crime was solved immediately, and the
    official story was in place before the day of the attack was over. Within 48
    hours, our president stood at the National Cathedral surrounded by Billy
    Graham, a cardinal, a rabbi and an imam, and used this religious setting to
    declare a holy war on terror.”

    If we were to contrast the smoothness of the post-9-11 operation with the
    aftermath of Katrina, we are left with the question: How can a president so
    inept in one setting have been so “ept” in another? False Flags

    While Griffin professes no formulated alternative theory of what did happen,
    he offers a clue in the title of his first book. A New Pearl Harbor refers
    to a passage in a document called Project for the New American Century —
    the neocons’ blueprint for what they call “pax Americana” — which says that
    for the American people to accept the overt military mission of creating
    security through world domination, a “new Pearl Harbor” would be needed.
    Griffin believes that the 9-11 attacks were just that.

    This is a pretty serious — and horrific — assertion to make: that the
    leaders of our country would see fit to sacrifice some 3,000 civilians so
    that we could launch a preemptive attack on a perceived enemy. And yet,
    Griffin is quick to point out, our history is rife with just such incidents,
    from the “remember the Maine” boosterism preceding the Spanish-American war
    to the Gulf of Tonkin lie that launched U.S. involvement in Vietnam to the
    Pearl Harbor attacks themselves. Indeed, recent scholarship on Pearl Harbor
    suggests that President Roosevelt knew of the attack plan in advance and
    even purposely provoked the Japanese, because he knew it was the only way we
    could join the war against Germany. This in itself offers a dicey moral
    dilemma: Is it justified to sacrifice thousands of lives to save millions of
    lives?

    During the Cold War, two more chilling examples of so-called false flag
    operations have come to light. (False flag operations are covert situations
    conducted by governments or other organizations that are designed to appear
    as if they are being carried out by other entities.) In his recent book,
    NATO’s Secret Armies: Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe, Dr.
    Daniele Ganser, a senior researcher at the Center for Security Studies,
    Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, reports that NATO, guided by the
    CIA, supported terrorist attacks on civilians in various European countries
    to discredit the left and create fear on the part of the populace.

    In Italy, right-wing terrorists, supplied by a secret army (named “Gladio,”
    Latin for “sword”), carried out bomb attacks in public places, blamed them
    on the Italian left and were thereafter protected from prosecution by the
    military secret service. As right-wing terrorist Vincenzo Vinciguerra
    explains in Ganser’s book, “The reason was quite simple. They were supposed
    to force these people, the Italian public, to turn to the state to ask for
    greater security.”

    In our own country during the early ’60s, the Joint Chiefs of Staff under
    the command of Gen. Lyman Lemnitzer came up with a similar plan to provoke
    an attack on Cuba. According to NSA myth-buster James Bamford in his 2001
    Random House publication Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret
    National Security Agency, the Joint Chiefs called for undercover operation
    of terror within the United States that included plans for “innocent people
    to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to
    be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in
    Washington, D.C., Miami and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings
    they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of
    it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the
    excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to
    launch their war.”

    President John F. Kennedy nixed the plan immediately, and it was never put
    into action. But it did have the approval of top military brass, and with
    the right president — or the wrong one — it could very well have come
    about.

    In the aftermath of 9-11, Griffin initially dismissed any speculation that
    the attacks could have been an inside job. “I subscribed to the ‘blow-back’
    theory,” Griffin says. “After generations of exploitation and interference
    by Western powers, these people had such fury that they had to lash out any
    way they could.”

    At the time, Griffin, who was close to retirement from his position at
    Claremont School of Theology, was working on a book on global democracy. In
    the wake of 9-11, he decided that he needed a special chapter on U.S.
    imperialism. He worked on that chapter for over a year before he came to the
    view that 9-11 was an inside job. “As much as I knew about prior false flag
    operations, as much as I knew or thought I knew about the nefariousness of
    the current regime, my first take was not even the Bush administration could
    or would do such a thing.” Three Different Stories

    It wasn’t until a colleague sent Griffin an e-mail with Paul Thompson’s
    timeline — an exact, minute-by-minute accounting of the events of Sept. 11
    based entirely on mainstream media accounts — that he changed his mind.
    “The most glaring anomaly,” Griffin now says, “was that none of the hijacked
    planes were intercepted, even though all of them would have been, had
    standard procedure been followed.”

    According to Gen. Ralph Eberhart, head of North American Aerospace Defense
    Command (NORAD), from the time the FAA senses something is wrong, it takes
    about a minute to contact NORAD, after which NORAD, Eberhart says, can
    scramble fighter jets “within a matter of minutes to anywhere in the United
    States.” So what happened on that morning?

    The government has given three conflicting answers to this question.

    Since a full 32 minutes elapsed between the time the first hijacked airliner
    was detected and the time it crashed into the World Trade Center, it
    initially appeared that “stand down” orders must have been issued to suspend
    standard procedures. Indeed, the first reports from both NORAD and Gen.
    Richard Myers, the acting chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, indicated that
    no jets were scrambled until after the Pentagon was hit at 9:38am.

    By Sept. 13, however, the original story had morphed into an explanation
    that “the planes were scrambled but arrived too late.” The delays were
    blamed on the FAA, said to have been slow in notifying NORAD. If that were
    the case, Griffin points out, it was strange indeed that no FAA personnel
    were fired or even cited for the breakdown in procedures and the resulting
    disaster. (Griffin notes, moreover, that the FAA flawlessly handled — on
    the same day — the unprecedented task of grounding thousands of domestic
    flights.)

    Meanwhile, Griffin reports, transportation secretary Norman Mineta testified
    that at 9:20am — about 18 minutes before the Pentagon was hit, allegedly by
    Flight 77 — he went down to the shelter conference room under the White
    House. According to Mineta, a young man walked in and said to the vice
    president, “The plane is 50 miles out,” and later, “The plane is 30 miles
    out.” When the young man reported, “The plane is 10 miles out,” he also
    asked the vice president, “Do the orders still stand?”

    “Of course the orders still stand,” Cheney is alleged to have replied. “Have
    you heard anything to the contrary?”

    When Mineta was asked by the 9-11 Commission how long after he arrived the
    conversation occurred, Mineta said, “Probably about five or six minutes,”
    which would have placed it around 9:25 or 9:26am. However, in the final
    version of the story, The 9/11 Commission Report maintained that no one in
    our government knew about the approaching aircraft until 9:36am, too late to
    shoot it down. How did the Commission deal with this apparent contradiction?
    Like just about every other piece of testimony that conflicted with the
    official story, Griffin avers, they ignored it.

    “With regard to the question ‘Do the orders still stand?'” Griffin says,
    “Mineta seemed to assume those orders were to shoot the plane down. But
    really, the young man’s question makes sense only if the orders were to do
    something unexpected — that is, not to shoot the plane down.”

    So what did happen? Whodunnit?

    Again, Griffin prefers to focus on the circumstantial framework for
    examining the evidence. “You have a suspect who changes his story three
    times. Does this make him more or less suspicious?” Collective Evil

    Of course, the top echelon of leaders in this country aren’t exactly your
    usual run-of-the-lineup perps — which, according to Griffin, is why those
    who’ve pointed fingers at the emperor’s bare buttocks in this case have been
    marginalized like a bunch of tinfoil-headed kooks. No argument about this.
    I’ve asked a number of savvy authors and commentators why they haven’t taken
    on the unanswered questions and unquestioned answers around 9-11. Their
    answers have been pretty much the same: It’s just too big a stretch for most
    Americans to believe their own government could have had anything to do with
    it. However, in an exceedingly underreported Zogby poll done just last
    month, 42 percent of adults polled believe the U. S. government and the 9-11
    Commission “concealed or refused to investigate critical evidence” that
    contradicts the official explanation of the attacks.

    Perhaps what these reluctant commentators really meant is that they would be
    committing career suicide by questioning the official story. So why and how
    is David Ray Griffin different? And why is he spending his retirement
    traveling around the country writing and talking about something that
    conventional wisdom insists people don’t want to hear?

    Perhaps it has something to do with Griffin’s background in “process
    theology.” Process theology is specifically designed to answer such
    post-Holocaust questions as, how could a loving God have allowed such a
    thing to happen? Griffin has written or co-authored a dozen books and
    articles on the subject, and roughly the answer is this: We, as creations of
    the Creator, have free will to choose how and what we create in this life.
    This very often results in what we call “evil.” On the other hand, our
    greatest power as human beings is to bring that loving God to earth by
    creating good instead.

    To those who assert “God is dead,” process theology says no, Griffin
    reasons. The loving God is alive in our thoughts and words and deeds. God
    doesn’t intervene to set things right unilaterally. Rather, that spirit —
    through us — embodies divine love. In other words, the world changes — if
    we change it. Divine power, he says, is “persuasive, not controlling.”

    While Griffin’s faith may be deep, it certainly isn’t narrow. He recently
    edited a book called Deep Religious Pluralism.

    “I’ve written two books on the problem of evil, so I’ve been dealing with
    the topic for a long time,” Griffin says. “Frankly, as soon as I saw the
    evidence that 9-11 was an inside job, I wasn’t surprised. I had studied the
    rise of Nazism and the Holocaust, the Japanese butchery of the Chinese in
    Manchuria, our use of nuclear weapons in Japan in spite of their imminent
    surrender. I’ve seen the depth of evil in collective situations. It’s an
    old, old story, and this is just the latest chapter. Once the nation-state
    announces it is threatened, everything else gets pushed to the back burner.
    That’s what we’re seeing now.”

    Griffin’s intention just over three years ago was to write an article for
    Harper’s on what he then believed to be “foreknowledge and thwarted
    intelligence.” But the more evidence he saw that the attacks were likely
    orchestrated by our own government, the more he felt a book was needed.
    Since none of the American investigators had been able to get a book
    published at that time, Griffin figured that as a published author he had a
    better chance.

    But it was far from automatic. Richard Falk, a Princeton professor of
    international law and practice, had personally recommended Griffin’s book to
    several publishers. Every one of them turned it down. “Not for us,” said one
    rejection tersely. At dinner one night, Falk suggested Interlink Books, a
    tiny publisher that had published a recent book of his. Interlink took the
    book, but only because of a quirky coincidence. The editor was dubious. But
    knowing Griffin was a theologian, she asked her father, a minister, if he’d
    ever heard of the guy. “David Ray Griffin?” said her father. “I have all of
    his books!”

    And so, in 2004, the book got published. But you’d never learn this from
    mainstream magazines and newspapers, which have yet to publish a review of
    The New Pearl Harbor, which has sold over 100,000 copies. Nor will you see
    him on mainstream TV, which has yet to invite him to appear.

    Griffin seems unperturbed by this, and points out that each week and each
    month the alternative account of 9-11 gains wider credence. Is he afraid?
    Does he feel in danger? “Well,” he jokes, “there are two possibilities.
    Either they leave me alone, or they take me out. If they leave me alone, I
    get to enjoy my old age and write my systematic theology. If they take me
    out, my 9-11 books go right to the top of the New York Times bestseller
    list. So it’s a win-win situation.”

    More seriously, he points to his Christian faith (Disciples of Christ is his
    own background), and says that Christian history is full of examples of the
    faithful who stuck their necks out for the truth. “If we who believe in
    everlasting life fear death,” he says, “what does that say about our faith?”
    Myth-Informed?

    Other than standing for his faith, what does Griffin hope to accomplish by
    exposing the 9-11 story as a lie? As an advocate for a worldwide democratic
    order, he sees this story as an example of “governmental lawlessness” so
    egregious that its exposure could call into question the continuation of the
    present system with its “anarchical competition between nation states.”
    First, however, people must be willing to think the unthinkable, and to be
    willing to look at the evidence that it is our own nation that has become
    the evil empire.

    This is a formidable barrier to cross. Ever since the notion of the “Big
    Lie” was first put forth to describe the tactics of the Third Reich, it has
    become a cliché that the bigger the lie, the harder it is for people to see
    the truth. This is especially so when the official version takes on the
    status of what theologian Griffin calls “sacred myth.”

    “The ‘truth’ of the official 9-11 story,” explains Griffin, “must be taken
    on faith. It is not a matter of debate or even discussion. Anyone who brings
    up anything that contradicts the official story is either ignored or
    denounced as a conspiracy nut.

    “However,” he continues, “when the official account of 9-11 is stripped of
    its halo and treated simply as a theory rather than an unquestionable dogma,
    it cannot be defended as the best theory to account for the relevant facts.
    When challenges to it are not treated as blasphemy, it can easily be seen to
    not correspond with reality.”

    And so David Ray Griffin continues to make presentations, do interviews and
    get his version of the truth to “break the soundless barrier.” With Falk,
    John B. Cobb Jr. and Catherine Keller, Griffin co-authored the
    just-published anthology The American Empire and the Commonwealth of God: A
    Political, Economic, Religious Statement. His own contribution portrays the
    9-11 attacks as orchestrated to promote the American empire. Publishing in
    July is his newest book, Christian Faith and the Truth Behind 9/11: A Call
    to Reflection and Action.

    His hope? That enough Americans wake up and call for a re-investigation, and
    that those who know more will feel safe enough to come forward. But first,
    he says, we Americans must muster the will and courage to face the situation
    squarely in the face.

    As a postscript to my interview with David Ray Griffin, I am reminded of a
    March 30 article by journalist Doug Thompson published on OpEdNews.com. In
    it, Thompson recalls a 1981 encounter with the late John Connally, the
    former governor of Texas who was wounded in the Kennedy assassination. In an
    unguarded moment, Thompson asked Connally, “Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald
    fired the gun that killed Kennedy?”

    “Absolutely not,” Connally said. “I do not, for one second, believe the
    conclusions of the Warren Commission.”

    “So why not speak out?” Thompson asked.

    “I will never speak out publicly about what I believe,” Connally replied,
    “because I love this country and we needed closure at the time.”

    Now here we are more than 40 years after that devastating perpetration and
    we have to wonder, how well did “closure” serve us? As we see daily the
    fruits of self-serving secrecy and unchecked power, it might be time for
    some disclosure instead.

    …………

    DAVID RAY GRIFFIN & 911 ACCORDING TO WIKIPEDIA
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ray_Griffin

    September 11, 2006 at 12:42 am #17850
    Dog
    Participant

    You said that you thought the chinese where involved. I liked this Idea because this does not smell of what most would call illuminati activity. It was very out in the open. Do you still believe this to be true.

    September 11, 2006 at 11:45 am #17852
    Michael Winn
    Keymaster

    Yes. What we might call the “black government” in the USA – the hundreds of billions of dollars that are not subject to public surveillance – is the main government in China. Both rule by fear and force. Both are being exposed to public scrutiny in this year of the Red Fire Dog. Apathy is their main defense.

    September 11, 2006 at 3:16 pm #17854
    uroburro
    Participant

    Thanks for the post Michael. Steve Bhaerman (Swami Beyondanda) is also a very reasonable (and funny) man. As much as I have a hard time swallowing the 9/11 conspiracy story, when reasonable people can provide a factual basis for the story, it requires listening to.

    I don’t remember the exact quote from Hannah Arendt, but it was something along the lines of: In the face of Evil, silence is the greatest mistake. Her descriptions of the banality of Evil are a haunting reminder of how easy this type of atrocity could take place.

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