March 5, 2013 at 2:23 pm #40355
I’m new in the forum. I’ve looked if something about Qi Gong for bedridden people had been posted but searching “bedridden” didn’t show any result.
Should you give me any suggestions about Qi Gong for very weak people who can not stand and who have very poor energy? Is there a specific product to learn you would suggest?
Thank you very much.
AntoniaMarch 5, 2013 at 4:49 pm #40356
Many times the people who are the most sick
and can not get out of bed, still do if only to get
up to use the bathroom/toilet. For these people, I would still
recommend trying to do some qigong while upright, if
only they can do so for 10 minutes and then go back to bed.
Being able to do this, even for short periods, will help
a person to get healthier. In these cases, the qigong
I would recommend the most would be Primordial Qigong
(which is only 10 minutes long) and Deep Healing Qigong
(quite a bit longer, but you can do pieces in shorter time,
and build up). Both of these are really good for healing.
You can get both of these (as DVDs) on this website. There
have been times when I myself was really sick, and even though
I was dizzy and had to go back to bed afterward, still
managed to get up to do one or the other of these. Even
just simply spending some time standing up (which stimulates
the Kidney-1 point on the foot) is good as it helps the
kidney system which is the energy source of the body.
So, in total, I would recommend these two DVDs (qigong forms):
Primordial and Deep Healing Qigong
If someone truly can never even get up to stand, even in
the case of needing to use the bathroom (so that they need
someone’s help)–or in the case if someone is paralyzed and
can not move their legs–then I’d recommend:
1. Pangu Mystical Qigong (it’s mostly just hand motions,
you could do it sitting in a chair or even in bed)
It is on the Fusion 2-3 DVD (no background necessary)
2. Ocean Breathing (arm movements and abdominal breathing)
It’s on the Qigong Fundamentals 1 DVD. It is normally
done standing up, but you could equally well do it lying
down in bed with just the arm movements and breathing.
3. Meditative Breathing Techniques (normal, reverse,
counterforce breathing methods). These are covered
on the Qigong Fundamentals 3 audio set (not the DVD).
HOWEVER, if a person can stand for even very short periods
of time, I would still recommend Primordial Qigong and
Deep Healing Qigong over these.
StevenMarch 5, 2013 at 5:51 pm #40358
Cattleya and I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, so though we may be able to stand and walk a bit, I don’t believe it’s healthy for us to do so. We have orthostatic intolerance, which means the blood pools into our lower extremities when standing up, which places a strain on our body which already is severely weak (mitochondria aren’t producing enough ATP).
I do believe chi kung can help us, though, so I’m also interested in this thread. For me, it seems I can only tolerate a few seconds of chi kung before I get very restless. It feels like a self-protective mechanism my body has is kicking in. Paradoxically I also get tired very quickly, even if all I’m doing is a visualization with no body movements at all. Cattleya has also told me she feels that chi kung activates her sympathetic nervous system, which is the opposite of what a CFS person should be doing.
Any advice? Also, what are the difference between the chi kung forms you listed? Might one be better suited than another for different conditions or goals?March 5, 2013 at 7:44 pm #40360
>>>Cattleya and I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome,
>>>so though we may be able to stand and walk a bit,
>>>I don’t believe it’s healthy for us to do so.
For starters, I’d suggest changing your thinking.
The human body’s natural state is one of health,
and to be able to walk and stand is a healthy behavior
for a body. I would not program into your cells
negative thinking that describes healthy behavior
>>>We have orthostatic intolerance, which means the
>>>blood pools into our lower extremities when standing up,
>>>which places a strain on our body which already is
>>>severely weak (mitochondria aren’t producing enough ATP).
Poor blood circulation is another symptom of kidney weakness,
just like low energy. This is why I feel–getting up and
getting moving–is so important. Staying in bed and
avoiding activity perpetuates the problem, in my opinion.
It tells your body that limited movement and mobility
is what the body should expect and plan for. So eventually
it can not handle anything else. It takes YOU deciding
>>>I do believe chi kung can help us, though,
>>>so I’m also interested in this thread. For me,
>>>it seems I can only tolerate a few seconds of
>>>chi kung before I get very restless. It feels
>>>like a self-protective mechanism my body has
>>>is kicking in. Paradoxically I also get tired
>>>very quickly, even if all I’m doing is a
>>>visualization with no body movements at all.
>>>Cattleya has also told me she feels that chi kung
>>>activates her sympathetic nervous system,
>>>which is the opposite of what a CFS person
>>>should be doing.
Part of this could be caused from fear, stemming
from kidneys again. Some of this can be alleviated
by making sure to keep your breathing in your lower
dantian. If you breathe in your upper chest, it
triggers releases of adrenaline. Focus on
breathing in the lower dantian.
If you are not breathing in your upper chest,
but are breathing in the lower dantian area,
then some of the reaction you experience could
also likely be a detox reaction. In my personal
experience, I’ve done some qigong while sick,
and started feeling “even sicker” while doing it . . .
in particular, nausea, dizziness, feelings of fear . . .
but rather than quitting, I would tell myself to
just try to continue a little bit longer past my
comfort zone but that if it were seriously too much
I would stop. Usually while pushing onward, the
uncomfortable feelings would sort of reach a limiting
point where (at least) they weren’t getting worse.
So I would continue. Then after finally finishing,
I would–maybe 10,15 mins later–feel a lot better
than I did before I began qigong. It was as if
the “uncomfortableness” was a detox reaction, that
had to be gone through, so that healing could happen.
In any case, just something to keep in mind.
Of course, you need to use your own judgment in
all cases, but it is also important to remember
that sometimes pushing a little beyond your comfort
zone is what is necessary if you want to effect
If you only do, what your body can do,
then that is all that it will ever do.
>>>Any advice? Also, what are the difference
>>>between the chi kung forms you listed?
>>>Might one be better suited than another
>>>for different conditions or goals?
In total, given what you’ve told me, I strongly
recommend Deep Healing Qigong above all other
considerations. Do as much of it as you can.
If you get tired, rest. Then get up again
as soon as you can and do more. This is what
I would do, if it were me.
I realize you are not me, and you have to
do what you feel is right for you. I only
say what I would do, if it were me.
StevenMarch 5, 2013 at 10:07 pm #40362
How do I quote your message? Anyway, yes, it’s not good to program oneself to be weak or sick, so I agree we should do what healthy behaviors we can. My point is, though, that for some, even ten minutes of standing is too much. For someone without experience with CFS, it’s probably hard to understand, but it’s true. I could get into the biology of it, but I hope you can take it on faith that I know what I’m talking about. Thus, I guess the question is whether only a few seconds of a standing chi kung is superior to a longer time with a lying down chi kung? I assume longer is better, right?
Is there an demo video of the Deep Healing Qigong, or can you describe it? I’m on disability, so money’s tight. I’d like to see if it would work, given my unusual needs, before I buy it.March 5, 2013 at 10:50 pm #40364
Unfortunately, there is no video clip sample
at this stage. However, I strongly recommend it.
I’ve attached a link at the end of this post
to the Deep Healing Qigong video. It provides
a description of the form, and will give you more
insight. I feel that doing some standing practice,
if only for a short period, and trying to increase
it over time is better in the long run, in my opinion.
I realize that with a chronic illness, it is very
hard and there are usually a lot of immediate
difficulties, but you have to start somewhere
and do the best/most that you can do, and just
take one day at a time. If you try your best,
have a positive outlook, and take one day at a time,
eventually you will see some improvement. But it
takes courage and perseverance.
See the attached video clip to see the ability
of the body to transform and heal.
My best to you,
StevenMarch 6, 2013 at 1:53 am #40366
That is indeed an inspiring video. Thank you.
The link at the end, however, goes to a thread about that same video, not one about the Deep Healing Qigong.March 6, 2013 at 6:04 am #40368
Sorry, try this one:March 14, 2013 at 3:56 pm #40370
In the final analysis every dreamer is different. There are, however, general states. Restful vigil is the preliminary state, a state in which the senses become dormant and yet one is aware. The second state is dynamic vigil. In this state one is left looking at a scene, a tableau of sorts, which is static. One sees a three-dimensional picture, a frozen bit of something–a landscape, a street, a house, a person, a face, anything. The third state is passive witnessing. In it the dreamer is no longer viewing a frozen bit of the world but is observing, eyewitnessing, an event as it occurs. It is as if the primacy of the visual and auditory senses makes this state of dreaming mainly an affair of the eyes and ears. The fourth state is the one in which you are drawn to act. In it one is compelled to enterprise, to take steps, to make the most of one’s time. This state is called dynamic initiative…
A recapitulation is the forte of stalkers as the dreaming body is the forte of dreamers. It consists of recollecting one’s life down to the most insignificant detail. The first stage is a brief recounting of all the incidents in our lives that in an obvious manner stand out for examination. The second stage is a more detailed recollection, which starts systematically at a point that could be the moment prior to the stalker sitting, and theoretically could extend to the moment of birth.
A perfect recapitulation can change a warrior as much, if not more, than the total control of the dreaming body . In this respect, dreaming and stalking lead to the same end, the entering into the third attention. It is important for a warrior, however, to know and practice both. The key element in recapitulating is breathing. Recollecting is easy if one can reduce the area of stimulation around the body. Theoretically, stalkers have to remember every feeling that they have had in their lives, and this process begins with a breath.
-CARLOS CASTANEDA, The Eagle’s Gift
Human’s inner medicine is capable of curing almost all chronic and complicated diseases and uprooting all root causes. Yet, people are always sparing no efforts in searching for medicine outside their own bodies. This site is created partly for helping those who have lost hope of curing their chronic diseases such as cancer, diabetes, hypertension, rhino sinusitis with turbid discharge, Ulcerative Colitis, Crohn’s Disease (IBD), hepatitis C, AIDS, Multiple Sclerosis, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS) and other which at present are impossible to be cured in hospital. Much efforts has also been made to collect special herbal formulas that have been verified, through clinical experiment, very effective in treating various complicated diseases. We would like to offer free DaMo qigong course material and DaMo qigong correspondence course to the patients who have interest in the practice.
Sorry for this extra remark, which is not about HT practices per se.
If one has very serious health situation, this kind of forum is not I think right place to look for personal advice.
But beside that what has been said, I think if one cannot for example stand for very long time, one must be able to take various positions still anyway. So one could try to learn to practice hatha yoga type of positions when lying this or that way, sitting, standing and so on.
One should get some good material which one could study and my suggestion would be SWAMI SATYANANDA SARASWATI’s Asana Pranayama Mudra Bandha and DAVID H. COULTER’s Anatomy of Hatha Yoga. One should use these as resource for one’s practice in improvised style.
If visualization makes oneself tired without any movement, this is very difficult situation, but I would still start to experiment with various approaches to recapitulation. Here I personally vote for C Castaneda although there also other versions.
One should start to develop sensitivity to one’s internal and external state from moment to moment, checking whether it’s about will power or weakness in one’s constitution or something else and try to make improvement.
HOWDYMarch 15, 2013 at 12:00 am #40372
Symptoms of CFS include post-exertional malaise; unrefreshing sleep; widespread muscle and joint pain; sore throat; headaches of a type not previously experienced; cognitive difficulties; chronic, often severe, mental and physical exhaustion; and other characteristic symptoms in a previously healthy and active person. Persons with CFS may report additional symptoms including muscle weakness, increased sensitivity to light, sounds and smells, orthostatic intolerance, digestive disturbances, depression, painful and often slightly swollen lymph nodes, cardiac and respiratory problems. It is unclear if these symptoms represent co-morbid conditions or are produced by an underlying etiology of CFS. CFS symptoms vary from person to person in number, type, and severity.
Orthostatic intolerance occurs in humans because standing upright is a fundamental stressor and requires rapid and effective circulatory and neurologic compensations to maintain blood pressure, cerebral blood flow, and consciousness. When a human stands, approximately 750 mL of thoracic blood is abruptly translocated downward. People who suffer from OI lack the basic mechanisms to compensate for this deficit. Changes in heart rate, blood pressure, and cerebral blood flow that produce OI “may be related to abnormalities in the interplay between blood volume control, the cardiovascular system, the autonomic nervous system and local circulatory mechanisms that regulate these basic physiological functions.”
Sorry, but still few words about these two hatha yoga texts.
COULTER’s book is for practical purposes for many probably too intricate, but in some kind situations it might just good because of all that anatomy and physiology.
In some countries it is available as a Google book very easily.
SATYANANDA’s book is good for all essential hatha yoga practices and as the title says it, one can find there asanas, pranayama=breathing exercises etc. also shatkarmas/shatkriyas. It has both very difficult and very easy practices.
If one is not used to practice qigong or yoga, one should be very carefull and of course even more if being chronically ill.
Sorry for my broken English.
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