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qigong and schizophrenia

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Home › Forum Online Discussion › General › qigong and schizophrenia

  • This topic has 22 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 10 months ago by nomad.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 23 total)
1 2 →
  • Author
    Posts
  • May 31, 2013 at 1:29 am #40735
    nomad
    Participant

    can qigong be helpful for schizophrenia? could there be any problems arising for someone with schizophrenia who is practicing qigong, any contra-indications?

    May 31, 2013 at 2:25 am #40736
    nomad
    Participant

    for example, in the inner smile practice, should one skip the ‘yin’ stage of it, with the body-dissolving? I tried it these days and felt an immense heart expansion afterward, but then was feeling out of sorts the next few days as i continued the practice.

    this article on yoga and schizophrenia says to do more extroverted practice, so perhaps focusing to the ‘yang’ stage of it would be better?
    http://www.yogamag.net/archives/1997/esep97/schizo.shtml

    i have no problem sitting in meditation though, no problem concentrating as this article suggests…. then again i have been on medication and stable for a while, but i had a few psychotic episodes and was labled ‘schizophrenic’

    May 31, 2013 at 1:25 pm #40738
    Steven
    Moderator

    I would suggest that most people that write such
    articles and give such opinions, do not also happen
    to be clinical psychologists with the necessary
    background to understand schizophrenia fully. Unless
    someone happens to have a degree in clinical
    psychology and has studied schizophrenia in detail,
    I would take such articles with a certain degree of
    skepticism.

    How many clinical psychologists who understand
    schizophrenia also do qigong and meditation to a degree
    where they can speak about the relationship of
    qigong/meditation to schizophrenia intelligently?
    I would guess not that many.

    Even amongst clinical psychologists, their understanding
    of schizophrenia has come about through years of
    experimentation with various therapies and
    pharmaceutical drugs. So theirs is an educated guess
    also, albeit much much more informed
    than that of an outsider to the field.

    So I would take all of this into consideration before
    making any kind of decisions.

    That said, here is my opinion:

    I think it has the potential to help with the condition.
    However, I think it also has the potential to aggravate
    the condition as well.

    My advice:

    Take things slower and do things in less amounts than
    other people might do. Take careful note of what your
    reaction is. If it seems to be helping, then continue
    to do it, slowly increasing in time as you feel comfortable.
    If any qigong/meditation seems to be aggravating the condition
    in any way, discontinue the practice.

    Since grounding practices (such as standing meditation
    and Tai Chi) tend to help stabilize the mental body
    in people who do not have schizophrenia, I would expect
    the same to be true for people who have schizophrenia.
    In particular, I suspect that this could be very helpful
    for people who have schizophrenia, but this is just my intuition.
    I do not know if, in particular, this would be helpful for you.
    You would have to try it and very carefully gauge your reaction
    as mentioned in the preceding paragraph.

    Just like a diabetic who starts an exercise program needs to
    monitor their blood sugar more closely to see if
    medications and diet need to be adjusted in response, so
    should someone who has schizophenia more closely monitor
    their medications/therapies to see if they need to be
    adjusted. It would be wise to alert your mental health
    care provider to your new practices, so that your progress
    can be monitored appropriately.

    In short: Take it slow, and if anything seems to be
    destabilizing, discontinue.

    Best,
    Steven

    May 31, 2013 at 11:54 pm #40740
    nomad
    Participant

    thanks Steven for the response. Perhaps my reaction to the inner smile, although great at first, but not so good later, was due to other things going on in my life, being exposed to a crowd one day for example. that’s the other problem, many factors make it hard to know. but I will perhaps discontinue the yin dissolving phase of it and just do the practice suggested by mantak chia where the energy is collected into the navel or below the navel, or try the external yang practice and see what happens.

    as for tai chi, i tried it a while ago and practiced for a year, without great results in grounding… this was before I was taking medication though. yiquan standing meditations had good results though.

    thanks again

    June 1, 2013 at 2:14 am #40742
    Steven
    Moderator

    Yes, listen to your intuition, and feel free to
    change as you explore more, observing your own
    personal reactions.

    Tai Chi is good for grounding, but stationary
    rooted standing practice is typically far better.
    Yiquan standing meditations are phenomenal.
    I highly recommend them; they are excellent.

    S

    June 1, 2013 at 1:15 pm #40744
    ribosome777
    Participant

    because this is the true self

    all smiles )

    NOT the complex round of hatred, battle, competition, jealousy, lust, and passion

    which one might think was as much the true self…

    remember: NO ANIMOSITY

    June 2, 2013 at 2:29 am #40746
    nomad
    Participant

    i may try the body dissolving again for a few days because the heart expansion i experienced the first time was so awesome. maybe it was other factors and some other energy work i got done the next day that made me feel bad. if it’s the dissolving i’ll know this time and stop.

    question, can dissolving into the golden ball of light in the inner smile be ungrounding?

    June 2, 2013 at 11:01 am #40748
    Steven
    Moderator

    >>>question, can dissolving into the
    >>>golden ball of light in the inner smile be ungrounding?

    In short, the answer is YES, although typically in practice
    it tends not to be.

    There are two types of grounding.
    One is the physical grounding, of being deeply in your body
    and feeling physically connected to the ground.
    The other is energetic grounding, of being centered and
    anchored in your true core self.

    Typically, when one does “grounding practices” such as
    standing meditation, you get deeply physically grounded,
    which makes you deeply energetically grounded.

    However, these don’t have to necessarily go together.
    In particular, if you do the Michael’s Yin dissolving
    into your energetic body at the end of the internal inner
    smile, you are–by its nature–grounding yourself energetically
    into your true core self BUT you are most certainly not
    physical grounded. In fact, you couldn’t be more ungrounded.
    While your body is still connecting to the earth, you are no
    longer anchored to your body.

    For most folks, this is not a problem, because the typical
    reason why we get physically grounded to begin with, is to
    get energetically grounded into our core true self . . . which
    is what we are doing when we dissolve in the Inner Smile.

    However, there is a definite transition taking place.
    You disconnect from your physical body during the dissolving,
    and then reconnect to your physical body (supposedly with
    a healthier signature) afterward. Not only are you physical
    ungrounded in the dissolved period, but when you return, since
    your body and energetic signature is slightly different, you
    will be less physically grounded than you were before. It’s
    like sleeping in your bed after you wash the sheets: it is
    still your bed, but it sort of feels a little different than
    you are used to and requires a little adjustment.

    Because of the overall benefit of having a body with a
    healthy new signature and the benefit of the meditation of
    energetically grounding into your core, for most people
    this is a trade-off worth making. The benefits typically
    outweigh any temporary physical ungrounding–enough so that
    most people don’t even notice it.

    However, I’m personally not sure what could unsettle or
    destabilize a person that has schizophrenia, or in particular, YOU.
    Things that most people are OK with, may not necessarily be for you.
    It could be the case that the meditation is perfectly fine,
    you will get a lot of positive benefits, and will have no problems.
    On the other hand, it could also be the case
    that you could have a problem. Consequently, I hesitate making
    any kind of recommendation that “this is good” or “this is bad”,
    especially in your situation.

    Just take things slowly, observe carefully, and if anything
    seems destabilizing or uncomfortable, discontinue the practice.

    Qi,
    Steven

    June 2, 2013 at 6:05 pm #40750
    nomad
    Participant

    ok. thanks for the thorough response Steven

    June 4, 2013 at 11:44 am #40752
    c_howdy
    Participant

    This is a story about a nearly 100-year-old book, bound in red leather,
    which has spent the last quarter century secreted away in a bank vault in
    Switzerland. The book is big and heavy and its spine is etched with gold
    letters that say “Liber Novus,” which is Latin for “New Book.” Its pages are
    made from thick cream-colored parchment and filled with paintings of
    otherworldly creatures and handwritten dialogues with gods and devils. If
    you didn’t know the book’s vintage, you might confuse it for a lost medieval
    tome.
    And yet between the book’s heavy covers, a very modern story unfolds. It
    goes as follows: Man skids into midlife and loses his soul. Man goes looking
    for soul. After a lot of instructive hardship and adventure — taking place
    entirely in his head — he finds it again.
    Some people feel that nobody should read the book, and some feel that
    everybody should read it. The truth is, nobody really knows. Most of what
    has been said about the book — what it is, what it means — is the product
    of guesswork, because from the time it was begun in 1914 in a smallish town
    in Switzerland, it seems that only about two dozen people have managed to
    read or even have much of a look at it.
    -http://forum.healingdao.com/philosophy/message/19046/

    In Jewish Kabbalistic cosmology, the Kelipot are metaphorical “shells” surrounding holiness. They are spiritual obstacles receiving their existence from God only in an external, rather than internal manner. Divinity in Judaism connotes revelation of God’s true unity, while the shells conceal holiness, as a peel conceals the fruit within. They are therefore synonymous with idolatry, the root of impurity through ascribing false dualism in the Divine, and with the Sitra Achra (ñèøà àçøà “Other Side”), the perceived realm opposite to holiness. They emerge in the descending Seder hishtalshelus (Chain of Being) through Tzimtzum (contraction of the Divine Ohr), as part of the purpose of Creation. In this they also have beneficial properties, as peel protects the fruit, restraining the Divine flow from being dissipated. Kabbalah distinguishes between two realms in Kelipot, the completely impure and the intermediate.
    -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qliphoth

    In chapter six of this book he discusses reincarnation and Kabbalah. Here he writes that most mentally ill people are in fact not mentally ill, but are in fact possessed by evil spirits. He commonly refers to these as clippot or blockages.
    I know a woman who has been locked away in a psychiactric ward twice because she felt that she was being bomdarded by evil spirits and I can testtify that she is as normal as any who are deemed mentally fit. That definition, in itself, is suspect. I believe that between 70 and 80 percent of all who live display “abnormal behavior” at one time or another and that in most of those cases an invading spirit of evil is the cause. Rites of exorcism might heal far more of the “mentally ill” than all of the drugs and electro-shock therapy employed by the psychiatric community.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Berg#Mental_illness_and_possession_by_evil_spirits

    Schizophrenia is a condition of the mind that has consequent effects on the body. Perceptions and awareness are altered with the person often hearing voices, feeling persecuted and becoming suicidal. The cause is still a controversial issue. Cultural perceptions in different countries affect the incidence, treatment and possible outcomes for sufferers. Yoga has been shown to give many positive benefits to people with the disease for maintaining balance and harmony in their lives. However, there needs to be a lot of further research and verification of the effects and benefits of yoga for this condition.
    -http://www.yogamag.net/archives/1997/esep97/schizo.shtml

    This article is easy to associate with Swami Shivananda Saraswati and Swami Satyananda Saraswati so, to start with, it’s in the healthy direction.

    Satyananda for quite reasonable causes have wanted to point out certain similarities between Kundalini awakening and psychotic behaviour or even schizoprenia.

    On the other hand I’m not sure how advanced psychiatry is as a science. Many it’s practitioners could be in their own way stupidly arrogant when they actually are still too ignorant. First of all you have to make money.

    When Jung started to go crazy, in western occult terms, he simply became a Dweller of the Threshold!!!

    Or one could also say that he just met the Lesser Guardian of the Threshold!!!

    Sorry fo my broken English.

    HOWDY

    Ps. DWELLEROFTHETHRESHOLD=BABEOFTHEABYSS?

    June 4, 2013 at 12:32 pm #40754
    c_howdy
    Participant

    June 5, 2013 at 12:54 pm #40756
    ribosome777
    Participant

    this is natural selection filtering soft and and hard because hard protects

    hard vs soft produces maximum intensity

    this is not neutral

    it means separating the phallus from the anus.

    it also weeds out softness

    June 21, 2013 at 2:47 am #40758
    nomad
    Participant

    once i activated pure consciousness in the back of the headspace, i can do the inner smile dissolving practice without anxiety. looking forward to experiencing the super heart expansion i felt the first time i did it again

    June 21, 2013 at 3:03 am #40760
    nomad
    Participant

    also about the “super heart expansion” i felt before, i realized that it did not happen during the yin dissolving, but right after, as i was smoking a cigarette outside (bad habit i know) and smiling into my view, the local neighborhood, and the night sky…….. it was after this that i felt a huge expansion in my heart. so now i’m adding the yang practice into it. just did a yang practice after the yin and can feel a lot more energy around my heart.

    June 21, 2013 at 9:09 pm #40762
    Steven
    Moderator
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