April 3, 2006 at 1:11 am #12236
Let me ask you something. Let’s say that you want to lose weight, which way is better and more effective? To practice weight loss chi kung, or is the Chan experience better at doing this? How about if you want to have sex with a women? Does Chan have a better way to do this than learning tailbone-anal flexion and opening the spine? How about improving your leg strength? Does Chan have a better method than rooting to the earth? How about getting rid of anger? Does Chan have a better method than directly simling to the liver and clearing out the anger?
My purpose for saying this, is that this is what is meant by shaping the life force into what you want it to become. This is true freedom because you can do anything you want. Literally anything you want to do. Spirit has chosen to step down into the physical body because at this jing level, we have free will (zhi). No denying this. I know you will say that jing, qi, shen exist NOW and I agree with you but you have to understand that shen resides in your bodily organs and qi flows through your body. There is no denying that the decision was to step down into the physical body (jing frequency).
Now it’s up to you what you do with your free will, but jing has a limit and will eventually die out, it is linear. Your yuan jing is limited and when it’s gone so are you. This is what is meant by jing frequency being linear. So, make the best decisions. The best decision is to shape the life force (qi frequency) into what you want. What we all should want is to shape that what makes our free will limited, our negative ego. So, we should use our life force to shape our ego. This is going from jing-qi-shen. This is the greatest usage of free will (jing).
FajinApril 3, 2006 at 1:45 am #12237
I just want to make a statement about yuan jing. Your view of yuan jing and its limited nature is very much in line with post-communist traditional chinese medicine which views humans as having a limited amount of it, and when it runs out, we die.
The point of inner alchemy is to crystallize yuan jing as a result of harmonizing the five phases. By opening the Kan and Li portal, we are accessing the dimensional frequencies of early heaven directly, where there is an unlimited amount of yuan jing. It is not limited if one has skill in accessing it. Yuan jing, qi and shen are present at all levels of dimensional frequency: primordial (wu ji), early and later heaven. In early and later heaven there is a predominance of polarized yin-yang jing, qi and shen.April 3, 2006 at 1:50 am #12239
What are the better methods?April 3, 2006 at 1:55 am #12241
the best way to loose weight is correct diet and exercise, particularly aerobic to burn calories, im not a big believer in wight loss qi gong without aerobic exercise, metabolism must increase to burn fat.
I think your explanation and examples what shaping life force is the best explanation I have heard on this site so far. My only suggestion is to acknowledge the positive life shaping you suggest is attuning to the natural rythms of nature, which is our body. We then basically agree. In kan and li, star alchemy, we merge and connect to sun, moon, stars, we attune to them, if you want to say we shape our will to them, thats fine with me.
One of the best benefits of Dao arts is they do promote healthier bodies, but there are many with long life and no clear mind/spirit. I hope you will agree there are plenty of tai chi and qi gong “masters” that are alcholics, womanizers, greedy, etc.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying we should shape ourselves to change our negative ego (lets pass on what that means for now), when this is done we dont have much free will? The reason is we merge with the patterns of nature, we live each momement in the present, we exist and respond spontaneously, based on our root, out true nature. We have choosen to become one with the whole, no other option is a choice anymore, this is our only choice, but the secret in this secret is all is possible in that space.
baguaApril 3, 2006 at 2:21 am #12243
I understand what you are saying. However, I did not say that you cannot obtain more jing, I only said that jing is ticking down. It does not mean that we cannot get more of it, but it is trickling down and things like unregulated sex can speed the consumption rate, hence it being in the linear model. When we access early heaven like you said, we are accessing a different time-space vibration and we can play with linear time on this later heaven. If jing is not linear, then people would live forever and aging would not occur.
FajinApril 3, 2006 at 2:32 am #12245
Nice reply. But what I was trying to say was that if we liken jing to free will as kidneys store zhi (the will). Then the best will is to play with the life force. This is what I mean by going from jing to qi. This is a step, but everything in life is a step. This can be called a stepless step; however, because when you go to the life force, you have unlimited possibilities.
This doesn’t mean you have to follow the outline goven by Michael Winn that you have to do this and this and then and then and then. I’m only suggesting a scientific and effective way of getting the job done on the ego. The model of using free will (jing) to play choose the life force (qi) and then use the life force to shape the spirit (shen) is a pathless path because it allows unlimited freedom. Because when you choose to play with the life force, you can do whatever you want; though it should be directed towards spiritual goals.
I hope this really delivers the message!
FajinApril 3, 2006 at 2:40 am #12247
If playing with the life force includes any of the methods of daoist cultivation, than I agree.
If playing with the life force means focusing your Yi on the things Lao Zi recommends, than I agree.
If playing with the life force, which to me also means “attunning”, includes connecting your attention to the natural cycles of nature, than I agree.
Are we in agreement, so then we can talk martial arts?
baguaApril 3, 2006 at 2:51 am #12249
What a shock! I had never guessed it would be that easy for us to agree with each other. We are now FREE to talk about martial arts or anything that floats your boat my friend! Just post it up: wing chun, philosophy, taiji, whatever, you name it, I’m up for it with a smile and a half. Michael will probably blow that whistle again because there’s too much agreement but who cares, let him blow all he wants!
A smile and a half!
FajinApril 3, 2006 at 4:31 am #12251
But weren’t you also saying that Zhi equals free will? This does not make much sense to me, I think Zhi is more the will to reproduce and to be in the physical form.
The “free will” that we are discussing, positive, neutral and negative ego manifests on form and formless planes, not only the physical, and not only in the kidney spirit but also in the earth element and all the other vital organ shen.April 3, 2006 at 4:42 am #12253
The will to reproduce is an act of free will. Zhi literally translates to will, which resides in the kidneys. The kidneys store the jing which is why I equate free will to the level of jing.
I think that free will only exists and begins at the jing level because at this level there is choice. Spirit simply desires to become manifest on the jing level and from this level we choose to work with the life force for spiritual goals as I have agreed with Bagua. Yes, spirit and qi are at the jing/physical level too, in the vital organs and acu-network. So, now that they have stepped down into this level, we have the will to do with them what we want. Is there disagreement?
FajinApril 3, 2006 at 5:10 am #12255
I am not looking for disagreement, but would like some clarity in terms. I do not equate free will with Zhi (I know it means will). Zhi is a certain kind of will that also manifests in qi and shen.
Free will manifests through the positive, negative and neutral ego, which includes all the shen, and also manifests in the formless planes.April 3, 2006 at 5:12 am #12257
I have this triple VCD with this monk from Lu Shan doing this form called Sanfeng Taiji, it starts with three crossed fist movements: down, forward and rotating inwards and up. Is that the form you practice?
I don’t have time right now to visit Wudang, or learn any more forms, but was just curious to know. Do you know the guy in richmond teaching Wudang Gong Fu? I think there are a bunch of monks visiting Vancouver in the summer to do a performance, probably on their way to Colorado.April 3, 2006 at 5:15 am #12259
It looks like this is where we disagree because I see will as free will, it is only the ego that measures the level of how “free” will is. Personal heart shen is in communication with other shen and it’s the emotional backbone, ie. personal heart shen is the accumulation of positive ego, negative ego and neutral ego. So this is the heart-kideny relationship or ego(-/+ desires)-will relationship. The ego influences level of will.
FajinApril 3, 2006 at 5:16 am #12261April 3, 2006 at 6:03 pm #12263
so> The point of inner alchemy is to crystallize yuan jing as a result of harmonizing the five phases. By opening the Kan and Li portal, we are accessing the dimensional frequencies of early heaven directly .. >
In this lineage, its axiomatic that anything straight out of the text-books (& ad campaign) both has some truth to it and is profoundly misleading.
If you hadn’t guessed from the on-going debate, the HT is short on stillness. .. Which is the realm of submersing individual consciousness in the Tao. Submitting “conscious knowledge” to “real knowledge”. If the HT included, “.. and then meditate unwaveringly on the pearl for at least a half hour”, it’d give them a huge step up as far as authenticity – but the downside is that its not marketable.
Part of the original HT gesture was to introduce Taoism to the West, and it was packaged with that in mind. We’re all experiencing the ups and downs of that original gesture.
I can break off from anyone,
except that presence within.
Anyone can bring gifts.
Give me someone who takes away.
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