Home › Forum Online Discussion › General › question for michael and others – kundalini in the taoist tradition
- This topic has 35 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 19 years, 3 months ago by Simon V..
-
AuthorPosts
-
July 30, 2005 at 1:26 pm #6662dragonbonesParticipant
dance of shiva, as in andrey lappa’s practice?
i actually know the first few levels of that…
he was the main teacher whose system i followed in my yoga practice.
but i didn’t get very helpful advice from him when i spoke with him about my problems, since his attitude seems to be bent toward the yogi/tibetan buddhist goals of “up-up-and-away into emptiness” – which is not my interest spiritually.what do you mean when you say “fix the chi” in regard to the problems we’re talking about?
July 30, 2005 at 1:41 pm #6664dragonbonesParticipant(no drugs for me, my life has always been psychedelic enough without them!)
the way you have described daoist alchemy – this is much closer to what i’m looking for, than those paths of “annihilation”. i have deep disagreements with areas of buddhist and hindu philosophies, and do not want to practice with systems that are woven into world-views and goals that do not harmonize with my heart’s understanding. this is why i am reluctant to contact/explore some of the resources that have so far been recommended to me in this forum.
so, for anyone who can help, here is a distillation of my inquiry in one brief question:
i have experienced this force that leads to an undesirable sense of disassociation. the primary “esoteric systems” i have been trained in are also philosophically “disassociative” at root (leave the “world of dust”, sever consciousness from all objects, etc.) in taoist inner arts i see from what i have read, on the healingtao site for example, a system that does not seem to bear the stain of this escapist disassocation philosophy, but more one that seeks integration in all states, eventually as a means to unite the great paradoxes of known and unknown, life and death, etc. with this in mind, how does the taoist system approach this “force”?
thanks again, everyone.
July 30, 2005 at 4:53 pm #6666BeginnerParticipantHey DragonBones…you have gotten so much sincere reaching out, it makes the site come alive when sincerity appears. Your summation of this Internal Alchemy approach is right on. I am confused by your last question…”how does the taoist system approach this “force”?”
The physical vehicle that is used is chi Kung which is similar to hatha yoga from the outside in that we move in ways inspired by natural forces. If you choose to practice this the Fundamental Tape Series that Michael offers is unique and clear. He bleends the cosmology you seem to be getting from the inside with a form that is easy to do but profound when layers are added on and inner space enlarged.
I spent over twenty years in a yoga practice that was more Tantric in its approach…which means the body is not something to sever from but unite with. The best yogic strain out there I have found that touches on the forces this Taoist approach suggests is “ANUSARA”.
Using the structural approach of Iyengar with the inner visualization approach of others it works with the polarities and the Force that emerges from holding their paradox. Check it out if you wish to stick with yoga.
Follow your Bliss is what one recent teacher suggested. It sounds like you are on that path my friend, baba
July 30, 2005 at 7:10 pm #6668dragonbonesParticipantI have heard of anusara yoga – but I didn’t know it included more than a physical practice. Thank you for mentioning this.
To clarify – what I meant by that last question was: whereas other systems employ manifestations of a force often called kundalini to achieve *disassociative* goals, how does the taoist system employ it?
I really appreciate the responses, this seems like an important issue.
-Dragon Bones
July 30, 2005 at 9:17 pm #6670farooqParticipantHi Dragonbones,
I think Matt nailed it in his post.
Basically in doing what you did, you went knocking on the door and it opened…..
Dont worry be happy, it will all integrate eventually.
You’re basically going through what intellectually we call oness with all that there is. except your are actually experiencing it.
kind of like the diffence of a person who doen’t know how to swim reading a book on how to swim in the ocean, and actually being thrust into the water;0)
You definately need to focus on your rooting (just stand and let the energy go dooooown as far you wish – i like the center of the earth)
Matt recommened a site by Angelique Serpent that has a good visualization of this.
btw Matt thanks for that link. i met Angelique and she is one cool witch;0)
also after any energy work or you feel that your are tuning out – interact with other human beings, pets, gardening, anything that puts you in the here and now.
You will balance out.
Be patient
Peace and smiles
July 30, 2005 at 9:20 pm #6672jsritParticipantVery interesting that you followed his system. I dont know much about it other than the dance of shiva which is a very cool practice and a good qi gong type of thing…fixing the chi is something that takes a lifetime and even then nobody is able to do it. It means to return to the Wu Chi — the emptiness that Andrey is TALKing about, wherefrom spontanious action and stillness arise naturaly and perfectly on all dimensions. Fixing the chi means universal balance between heaven/earth, man/woman and future/past. Thus we transcend life and death.
To acheive this I could recommend to you my favorite qi gongs and tell you to continue to study this here sytem with the Healing Dao USA…another awesome qi gong set I found recently is the dvds and meditation by Lee Holden, senior HT instructor. Master Chia is the best. Michael Frost is awesome, Li Jun Feng, Hua Ching Ni is cool, Dumai.org, and Scott sonnon is awesome, you will want his “Be Breathed” and “Warrior Wellness” tapes at least.
Send me an email if you have further questions: matrix999@gmail.com
Every1, keep up!
Om blessings!
Namaste!
Shalom!
Peace out!July 30, 2005 at 9:35 pm #6674MatthewQiParticipantFarooq,
Wow! nice to feel the Shatki in ya! I felt it when reading your post. I am so glad that you got to meet her in person ( I haven’t but met her online).
For dragonbones and anyone else interested, the link Farooq is speaking of is:
http://kundalini-teacher.com/meditations/gr_anim.html
Angelique has put an enormous amount of time and energy into this site and it is very helpful to most people on the path…
Btw, Angelique is now working with the folks at Kundalini Support Network and is teaching with them. She is no doubt, one of the most articulate and spiritually deep persons on the earth today and I respect her deeply as I do Michael, Master Chia, and some other teachers that were helpful to me on my path.
Matt
July 30, 2005 at 9:45 pm #6676Simon V.ParticipantThe force… Well, in daoist, or in general Asian, methods, it is about cultivating energy in the sense of a healthy vitalizing force that can be directed however one desires once one has developed the ability to generate it to a sufficient degree at will–it can be used then for healing, defense, vanity, magic, sexual prowess, etc. There is more of a practical worldly emphasis (by far) when compared to Indian systems.
But there is a definite and elegant spiritual dimension that takes divergent forms that all follow the same general themes; one form is outlined by Michael Winn in his teachings which I consider to be excellent. Michale Winn is a student of alchemy in general and takes this to his presentation of daoism.There are different schools with regard to developing the energy body, but in my experience the most reliable way is to just practice steadily, which develops the energy body with complete and real objective assurance, integrating it with your Jo Blow identity, without rushing into potentially unbalanced states. You do not need to hoard sexual energy. Many go for the staggered approach–not ejactualting every time you have sex, which is what I have opted for, though I have gone for long periods without. Perhaps my body-mind is the exception. : ) (controversial subject…). It can yeild benefits, but it very often seems to prove more trouble than it’s worth. Turtle and the hare…
I think an error can be–and you appear to have taken a huge gulp of this universally encountered error (I’ve been there)–to aim for a radical point of freedom. You are setting up a polarity then. In daoism they speak of wei wu wei–‘doing not-doing’. This is a balancing act. The ‘not’ in this equation is a very loaded not, being the source of all being, of the logos, the universal instructions, the in-forming well of all process, but it’s also as simple as the most intimate strata of your own personal presence–it is not a foreign thing out there. But if you try to identify only with it, you are trying to do something which is actually impossible; emptiness and form are inextricable.
The problem with buddhism is that too often the aspect of the intuitive intelligence that in-forms life is forgotten and a dry ’emptiness logic’ takes its place as a meditation object one trys to annihalate oneself with (not the original intent of buddhism…); this is instead of getting in synch with, tuning in to, the life force, the deepest layer of your presence, as a work in progress, like listening to your conscience, surfing the wave rather than trying to boss the wave around (which is very tempting).Daoism’s earthy practicality and emphasis on health makes such errors (aiming for the point of ultimate final freedom, bossing the wave around) difficult to fall into. Daoism’s errors are more along the line of becoming a really healthy person with literal jedi-like powers with tons of personal magnetism and then neglecting the more subtle, difficult to understand, ego-whittling aspects of spirituality. In my opinion though, this is the better order to things, if you see what I mean; first fix the hull of your ship and learn to sail before you hit the high seas.
Good book: ‘The Inner Teachings of Taoism’ by Chang Po-Tuan, translated by Thomas Cleary.In there, if you read it, you will encounter a seeming bias against ‘mundane energy practices’. This is contextual in that in the culture then such things were as common as pushups and situps, and he was introducing a counter emphasis to say ‘hey look, there is a deeper way with greater fruit’, but practicing qigong was likely like breathing for him, taken for granted, whereas to us in the modern west it’s all new.
From a western alchemical point of view, they would say that you used ‘too much fire too soon’, resulting in the threat of the ‘solution’ (your individual conscious focus which had been loosened-expanded through concentration practices) escaping (meaning becoming gaseous) or dissociating, whereas what you want to do is ‘fixate’ your individual focus in a more expanded (more ‘gaseous’) state. This is ‘ascending and then descending’ or ‘spiritualizing the body and giving the spirit a body’ instead of just ascending and blissing out and/or losing your marbles. If this sounds cryptic, it is!
If you’re interested in that, the best book I’ve come across so far is ‘The Hermetic Tradition’, by Julius Evola.
And if you want daoist alchemy I would say you have arrived.Simon
July 30, 2005 at 10:36 pm #6678BeginnerParticipantGood question and the opposite intention is involved, that of association through inner communication. Using the physical body as one aspect of spirit and generating room for the energy body to emerge from deep inside.
If you think it is without struggle or true inner tests though you are mistaken. The life force will instruct, it is better to be grounded, babaJuly 31, 2005 at 4:13 pm #6680TrunkParticipantDB,
Kundalini awakening, as such, is not fully addressed in the HT system – in my opinion. People say that the microcosmic orbit and so on help to integrate kundalini, but they are generally talking about gradual energetic cultivation, not the violent sudden awakening.
I went through an opening similar to yours in 1988. This was like a fire hydrant fully open. Its a strenuous change. ๐
Much of what your are doing is in the right general direction. Much of which is basically to slow the energetic process down, as the real danger at this point is that things easily go too fast. (So fast that it puts wear, strain, on the psyche and energetics.)
1. Back off from practice.
Maybe a little rooting practice, maybe.2. Stay nourished.
This whole process takes real work for your body to adjust to. Eat healthy, nourishing food. If you’re a vegetarian, you might consider eating some meat occasionally.3. > got myself back involved in the world, friends, relations… cooking for people, playing music, gardening >
Really good.4. Continue some form of exercise. Whatever feels good to you. Needn’t be ‘spiritual’.
The fact is that what you’ve gone through can’t be undone. Its a process that will continue within you, in various ways, the rest of your life. However, smoother integration does occur, over time – and a fair part of it is just time. Your body will naturally do what it does, on all levels, to integrate this energy. It gets a lot smoother.
Many of the Taoist ideas of cultivation that’ve already been mentioned in this thread do apply, but later. Right now you’re in the middle of it, its huge and fast, and really the advice is the above: slow down, stay nourished, integrate with your life in a way that works for you, simply steady your pace. That’ll allow your body and psyche to adjust, at sort of an organic level.
regards,
TrunkAugust 1, 2005 at 2:35 am #6682dragonbonesParticipantthank you for your words.
it is interesting for me to read what people have said about this kind of process – for the period of my most intense problems seems to have passed. and i can see how it’s already “getting smoother”. i stopped doing yoga with any of the intensity that i had soon after it all began, in february. i am a vegetarian, though i’ve tried fish a couple times in recent months for the reason i imagine you’ve suggessted. i find long walks are important… as does being meaningfully involved with the lives of others. i have also understood that the best way for me right now is fundamentally one of the heart. abiding by my true heart, its love and its nature, things work out.
it is important for my “missions” to be involved in the “worldly” earth… that is why i am attracted to taoist practice as a tradition that is rooted in heaven AND earth.all the best,
dragonbonesAugust 1, 2005 at 2:58 am #6684dragonbonesParticipantalchemy and “alcolby”
August 1, 2005 at 7:34 am #6686JernejParticipantMistress is retired from KSN.
Glenn is retiring from KSN.August 2, 2005 at 3:22 pm #6688farooqParticipantThankyou for your kind words Matt.
If you are ever in the Vancouver BC Canada area, please let me know.
peace and smiles
August 2, 2005 at 3:29 pm #6690farooqParticipant‘Mistress is retired from KSN’
Hi Jernej,
Yes, Angelique mentioned that .
i seem to recall vaguely that is was for wanting to be more independent….
personally, i really was not interested cuz the other teachers in the group are too far from me anyway.
peace and smiles
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.