February 14, 2006 at 3:24 pm #10591
I’m new to this forum. I’ve studied under Chia and I thought I would try Winn’s Qigong and Inner Alchemy after reading some of his articles/lectures. I’ll try to contribute whatever I can to the forum if any questions come up on anything, especially internal martial arts – that’s my specialty. I learned secret tantric lama kung fu, went to wudang to learn wudang kung fu (many styles) for 5 years, and I’ve been learning under Erle Montaigue. I use it as a strong base for inner alchemy, but I have some questions if anyone can help me out!
I just wanted to know if I should get Qigong Fundamentals #1 because it looks like Chia’s inner smile and 6 healing sounds are less advanced than Winn’s. What is the big difference?
Also, I have been using Dr. Lin’s sexual techniques, are Winn’s any different/more effective? Just want to know if it is worth buying!
Thank you very much for your time, any help would be greatly appreciated!February 15, 2006 at 11:50 pm #10592
Stick with Dr. Lin’s techniques, if you care about effective practical applications. Winn covers a whole different side of it that Lin doesn’t.
Erle Montaigue is a very nice man. I find that Pier Tsui-Po has some interesting things to teach, although I would use a different internal system to develop the internal skills. What’s tantric lama kung fu?February 16, 2006 at 11:06 am #10594
Thank you for replying, I appreciate it.
I studied under Erle Montaigue prior to going to Wudang at a kung fu academy where they also teach qigong and inner alchemy. He doesn’t take taijiquan as a daoist art but he sure knows his fajin (explosive energy), which is why I came to him to learn the old yang style form with fajin strikes. I also learned the Wudang Qi Disruption forms which can be traced back all the way to Zhang, Sanfeng along with Michael’s Primordial Qigong (excellent form). Although, at Wudang I learned sanfeng taijiquan which also incorporates fajin and puts a greater emphasis on the internal energy structure. Taijiquan just isn’t taijiquan without fajin, and my opinion is that it shouldn’t be practiced without it. Medically, it’s very important too, it gets your qi in there explosively when it’s needed-like fighting off pathogens! To me, the best form of medical, spiritual, and martial.
The tantric lama kung fu I studied is the lions roar kung fu. In my opinion, it is the second greatest kung fu style next to taijiquan. Taijiquan does everything as a whole (like rooting, connecting to heaven, fa-jin, etc.) while lions roar does things more separately. Learning hard qigong, like Chia’s iron shirt is a waste because you won’t have cotton muscles which is what you’re aiming for so you can express soft jins. They use the same jins except you learn qinggong (light body skills) which aims at lightening the body and standing on stakes in horse stance (mabu) to increase rooting. The simultaneous rooing power generated by the huiyin and lightening from the dantian produces tremendous power and speed. They try to incorporate the bagua, yin-yang, and five elements (as it comes from a very long lineage and tried to also develop upon taijiquan) and use kundalini as the base to this martial art so they both support each other like inner alchemy and taijiquan. Here’s a good link if you want to know more about it, I put a link.
Personally, I think that Daoists should take advantage of fajin inherent in taijiquan (great art created by Sanfeng for daoists), it really becomes effortless after a while even though its explosive and the benefits are extraordinary. Internal martial arts are a very good supplement to inner alchemy.
lionsroar.name/site_map.htmFebruary 16, 2006 at 12:18 pm #10596
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
I’m also interested in this kind of training, although I look at this practice more from ‘Inside to Outside’ sort thing. I wouldn’t like to separate spiritual cultivation and internal martial arts as two things complementing each other. I see it more like one thing coming out of the other- that is through spiritual cultivation- meditation and proper conduct- you develop the skills that make internal martial arts possible.
Chia’s Iron shirt did more harm then good for his students. Don’t get me wrong- there are some good principles described that are very beneficial. But his bone hitting practice is corrupted and incomplete, and his chi weight lifting is simply dangerous without proper preparations.
I see the key to developping internal skills is the breath. This society keeps pushing the idea of deep breathing being healthy. The irony is every study they conduct proved that the lack of oxygen brings you to the perfect health, not overobundance of it.
There are many ways to work with breathing. There are so many forms of pranayama- one of my favorite is 9 bottle breathing that will open up all your channels and make all the internal practices possible. I will write more on this later.February 16, 2006 at 2:00 pm #10598
Tanks for complementing me. I just wanted to say that I think you might have misunderstood – a little. I too follow the daoist way of going internal to external. There are, from my knowledge, 4 positions to practice: sitting, lying, standing, and moving. For sitting, meditation. Lying, dream yoga and standing/moving, internal martial arts. Wether zhan zhuang, or form.
This way they are working towards the same ends, unlike shaolin monks. They use dangerous martial qigong and then do nei dan to try and compensate for all that hard qigong. While internal martial arts is a means of powering the energy body, and drawing a stronger connection to earth and heaven, which is needed for higher practices. Internal to external.
I guess, I am doing the same thing as Michael is, except I practice martial arts and he does internal qi breathing and rooting – interesting stuff. I wonder if you can incorporate internal qi breathing during a taijiquan form? Don’t know enough about this counterforce breathing though!
AdrianFebruary 16, 2006 at 2:19 pm #10600
I think the way I expressed myself looked like I said: ‘Unlike you, I do this and this and this…’. I didn’t mean it this way. I just wanted to share my personal view, and I’m glad I can talk to someone who is interested in this sort of thing.
The advanced stage of martial arts wouldn’t differ much from internal cultivation/ qi breathing. etc. You can incorporate any form of qi practice in your form. The question is: Is what you are doing is in natural flow with your form? If it is, then go for it. I’m familiar with Michael’s breathing practices. Personally, I wouln’t mix the original form that passed from master to student. The effect could be nill or different.February 16, 2006 at 2:44 pm #10602
Great talking to you Max. The Healing Dao Forum looks like something I can fit in with.
To make something different, you should first have an awareness of it – like forms. As Michael says, practice until you feel like you own the practice. Then, if you feel like there’s a missing peice, experiment, see if it works. And, like you said, sometimes the original form is better left unchanged. The 12 Wudang Qi Disruptive forms I learnt from Erle are really powerful and advanced, they don’t need to be changed, they carry out the desired effect well enough. I have no doubt that Zhang, Sanfeng created them.
It’s been fun!February 16, 2006 at 7:37 pm #10604
Send me your email to taomax at excite.com.
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