August 30, 2008 at 12:34 pm #28969
Always interesting to observe the pendulum swaying… coming across two books written by and for black people ( others will be interested AND challenged to read it too my guess).
And from my part wondering how much of the cultivated men on this forum relate to this, maybe trying to deny that they in fact and deep down agree with these statements by the writers, or do they really have a different take on how women should be… An honest question… waiting for some honest answers…..:
The reeducation of the female by Dante Moore:
Moores book is intended to educate females about a mans way of thinking when it comes to sex, relationships, and marriage. The book is the starting point for women to evaluate themselves with a little more detail, before pointing fingers and tossing blame at the endless reasons surrounding why they cant find a ‘good man.
Heres a reason from chapter ten, Not All Women Are Cute, Sexy or Beautiful:
Theres a reason why he cant get hard, and the reason is you.
YOU! Youre fat and ugly and the worst part is you probably think youre cute. In other chapters of the book, you learn other reasons: youre too demanding, not submissive, you have a strong personality and you dress like shit. If youre educated, you dont keep it to yourself.
An article written by a woman, commenting the book:
Dont Blame it On Rio: The Real Deal Behind Why Men Go to Brazil for Sex, by Jewel Woods and Karen Hunter. The book tries much harder to reconcile relationships between Black men and women, but in its nauseating expose of the ‘real deal behind why men go to Brazil for sex, theres basically the same conclusion: women in America are chasing them there because theyre angry and overweight and they dont let men feel like men. Sure, the bookfar better written and more sensitivecriticizes men for going to Rio for sex and widely examines the state of Black masculinity and gender dynamics in America, but in its commitment to presenting men in their own words, the reader is constantly bombarded with statements in a voice very similar to Moore’s: If youre not sucking dick, taking it up the ass, letting me squirt on the face, or doing whatever it is I want you to do, I dont want to be with you. Add that to the constant discussion of how much, much more beautiful and better behaved Brazilian woman are then Black American women, the authors attempts to boost women up at the end is pointless. Im sorry, what, exactly, can a woman do to compete with 5 much younger prostitutes of a different, fetishzed race who will do whatever theyre paid to do to a guy and his work buddies? Why the hell would she want to compete with that? And why would she try to understand or save these dudes?
And interesting take-away from the book: The women whose men are all in Rio could, actually, lose some weight.
Dont Blame Rio…blame yourself. Or dont blame yourself, just, you know, understand that men are just men, that these “men” are the only men out there, and that you can stay single but you better stop bitching because if you’re single, it’s your fault. If you wanted to be happy, you’d be willing to compromise yourself so you could meet the needs of your man. Isn’t time someone thought about what the men need?August 30, 2008 at 4:12 pm #28970
Yeah. Sure. A woman should just give up her
own behaviors to submit to the man. Ridiculous.
Women *and* men should just be themselves.
The real problem is that people form relationships
with others that aren’t really a good fit for them.
A man deals with this by *ignoring* and *trying to ignore*
the fact that the woman isn’t a good fit for him. Whereas,
a woman deals with this by *criticizing* and *trying to change*
the man in the areas that he isn’t a good fit for her.
Neither approach works.
The *ignoring* just drives the woman crazy–making her
feel unheard and unappreciated; while deep down the man is unhappy anyway.
The *criticizing* and *trying to change* just drives
the man crazy, annoys him, and makes him feel less interested in engaging her.
The core problem is the same: the other person isn’t a good fit.
The result is the same: neither one is happy.
The only difference is the ridiculous attempt at trying to make
a square peg fit into a round hole.
In my opinion, people should try to see if they can be
friends first, before starting a relationship. I mean, if you
don’t *like* the other person, how can you *really* love them?
There are too many people “in love” that don’t really
like who they’re with. If you don’t *like* who you’re with,
it’s time to move on.
SAugust 30, 2008 at 7:16 pm #28972
There is a lot of truth in the idea that people go through stages in first transforming the sexual connection, then emotional and spiritual. Its not always in that order but that seems to be what people are looking to satisfy first these days and then have to deal with all the other stuff almost as an afterthought. Much better to start with a connection that will make a difference in the long term, not that sex doesn’t, but emotional and spiritual aspects take more will to deal with and can make a larger difference in how people relate. Definitely agree that people should at least be able to be “friends” first, and why not even find someone who you can love??? what a concept.August 31, 2008 at 6:24 am #28974
You have been interested in it ever since being on here.
The people who write this stuff hate women and hate themselves, and wouldn’t know sex if it hit them in the face.
Why are you listening to them? Why create a personal reality in which they matter?August 31, 2008 at 7:22 am #28976
Because I am dealing with something inside of me and I am not alone in that matter.
I don’t have the perfect body, I have some nice features sort of speaking but my overall body does not match the perfect norm.
Undressing yourself before a man while you don’t fit that norm is a challenge when the soul and body are not on the same page….
I have an agreement with my body, I learned to like it, I learned to accept those parts but it seems to a certain degree, it is not a deep down YES.
It is the social programming that is taking away a lot of joy, joy of life as it is, we want to have it perfect. So I am working my way through that programming in depth, not just making myself believe I love my body, but I want to come to a truthful YES feeling that my spirit and body are in happy and deep communion no matter the shape, size or strangeness of some parts of it.
I am working through the social programming of my OWN body though, because
I learned to look at people differently because of my work as a nurse, seeing thousands of old, sick and disformed bodies made me realize very well that the body is indeed a vehicle, that the true pearl is hidden in that body, and even when that body gets tired, old or sick, the pearl is there, but it takes a deeper look to discover, it takes some patience to let that true part arise. In my nursing I do had°have that patience and that love to let them blossom and open up their inner beauty. That is how I learned that the saying a healthy mind in a healthy body is NOT necessarily true. That saying is erasing all the flaws, the disformed, the sick, saying they are not divine, they are errors of nature, or saying they are the cause of their own distruction or illness. While they are just part of a long chain of information. And all information is divine, it is part of the lifeforce. The lifeforce goes from one extreme to the other, from super fat, to super thin, from holy to horror, it has to exist. So that comes down that even in the most horrible person we have to look for the divine. Who are we small minded people to judge the magnitude and the intelligence of the lifeforce…
I can see some of my body parts rippling back to my ancestors, if I see a picture of my great grandmother I recognize parts of me in her.
So it is not just about the perfect body, the perfect mind, but it is about understanding that whole chain of ancestors bringing in all those elements that make you who you are, and honoring that. Instead I should be proud of how I look, because it is a passing down of information which I don’t honor, or even hate…
Anyways Jason, I was dealing with these issues in me, coming across those books made me think even more deeply of how we are socially programmed, one way or the other, seeing women as holy, seeing them as bitches…
I hope that I can learn even more deeply to look beyond the nice or less nice features nature and our ancestors passed down on us and learn to see the true nature even better, the divine in the other and myself.
Some people, some books, some events are triggers to look deeper in ourselves, it is not the actual content, because I will not read those books, but it is the underlying information triggering something deeper in me that is interesting to dig in to. Everything can be a tool to listen and look deeper…
Nice day to you Jason
WendyAugust 31, 2008 at 10:15 am #28978
… But I just don’t understand, yes you know what I’m going to say, I don’t understand the connection with the post you began with – about women and men hating each other, hating each other’s bodies, hating sex, and having no constructive viewpoint to deal with it. The difference is, you are doing something constructive and they are doing nothing constructive. They are not taking any responsibility for the situation.
Put it another way: something like this might trigger off in *you* a whole series of interesting thoughts, but in a lot of people there won’t be any interesting reaction at all. Whereas in the personal truths of your second post, there is real interest. Why not start with the personal if the personal is what is important?
In people who want to go off to Rio to come in each other’s faces, I think we can say the personal is not important.
Another example: we disagree about ‘a sound mind in a sound body’. I see it very differently from you. That is an ancient phrase of profound truth to me, and it does mean something like what you say: “a truthful YES feeling that my spirit and body are in happy and deep communion no matter the shape, size or strangeness of some parts of it.” It never meant a ‘perfect mind in a perfect body’. Perhaps that is what people warp it to mean when they don’t think about it the way you are doing. Whereas the people who invented that phrase, believe me, they thought about it a lot.
If people don’t try to understand things like this, it’s because they are listening too much to stuff like you wrote before.
What you say is, the culture sucks the joy out of existence. What I say is, it only does that if you pay it attention.
Just my thoughts. You have a nice day too now. JAugust 31, 2008 at 11:09 am #28980
Understnading is not required in unconditional acceptance or yuan chi. Understanding may come but understanding is not the transformitive power. The only constant is change, how fast we allow this is another story. You don’t hate nor do you not honor, you mearly have placed some of your identity or core in these chi patterns there gravity has pulled you out of our core nature which is unconditonal acceptance, this is your home, hate has pulled you to the front lines with its advertising and news coverage, it is empowered by your identifing with it but to transform it you must surrender and return home. You are not the hate, sadness, or judgments, you are exprencing those chi patterns, our collective creations. Say it, I am the divine unconditional acceptance, I am beauty, in fact I am the source of all beuaty. Open and let the unviverse sing this truth into you. I promise to remind my friend here on the forum of this anytime they need me too, please remind me.
chi in I am out
JulianAugust 31, 2008 at 11:07 pm #28982
loving your body is crucial. Even being comfortable dancing is a matter of loving your body.
we can be spiritual, but the body is the other half of the equation, the reason why we are here.
having the free will to love is our birthright, we have the free will to choose it over doubt.September 1, 2008 at 7:17 am #28984
Thank you all for your nice, kind and warm replies.
I realize also that with every ‘spiritual’ step forward or better deeper, I need to reframe my ‘body’.
I am meeting my ‘old’ body while parts of me have moved on, so my body needs to catch up, I need a new meeting point with it… and I think I see the path to that meeting point now. A point in time and space where all my parts can meet, with the body as the earth center point…
Thank you againSeptember 1, 2008 at 8:20 am #28986
It may be obvious but it’s also worth pointing out:
If you actually meet people who have ‘perfect’ bodies, in my experience they are considerably more neurotic about their appearance than anyone else. It simply can’t be the case that this ‘perfection’ (which is completely culturally variable in any case) can have anything to do with self-acceptance on any level. Self-acceptance comes from something completely different and it actually doesn’t depend on one’s appearance at all.September 3, 2008 at 12:41 pm #28988
let me reframe your statement and see if you still like them
since my i is not exactly shooting for enlightenment some grossness might pass
I need to reframe my ‘body’
=My I needs to reframe its body
Instead I should be proud of how I look, because it is a passing down of information which I don’t honor, or even hate…
=My I wants to be proud for tolerating the bodies past
the social programming of my OWN body though
=something can and should control the body
I am working through the social programming of my OWN body though
=my i is working on something else’s programming of my i’s own body
So I am working my way through that programming in depth, not just making myself believe I love my body
=My I does not want my I to be forcing mine self into loving …
my spirit and body are in happy
=spirit and body is separate
the body is indeed a vehicle
=spirit and body is separate
healthy mind in a healthy body is NOT necessarily true
=spirit and body is separate
because if you’re single, it’s your fault.
=a suggestion of responsibility that is held as possibly true
saying they are the cause of their own distruction or illness
=a suggestion of responsibility that is reflexively refused
it is not a deep down YES
Who are we small minded people to judge the magnitude and the intelligence of the lifeforce…September 3, 2008 at 1:14 pm #28990
I said a long time ago that you and I are definite not from the same star system.
So I have NO CLUE what you try to say or try to point out, I try to understand but help me a bit…September 5, 2008 at 12:44 pm #28992
correct. investing energy in changing others if wear down.
if my add-ins were removed from my post
one might still see
first two groups of statement, each of a similiar meaning/prejudice,
that relate to an interesting approach human being definition
if story if godfathers indulged with beast, the inbred then are neither beast nor father, but a pact
as is a human many pact.
then one with contradictory meanings
if one is in tight space recognizing the pressumption can reveal the limitation of self limiting.
if not then the contradiction was presented. how one stimuli is considered acceptable in one context, but not in other. fully responsible.
then the solution
tru solution is always cathartic. it is not stoic. if starting from deep charge,
brave face not work.
i think i see a solution. visions very nice how about
i think i love my wife. there was even a move made of it.
how can projection in the past meet projection in the future.
only by not projection. not more skillful projecting.
no try do
such vistas is calling in the spanking not more talk
which is a solution in its self, is it not
a poem of charm
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