April 2, 2006 at 11:00 pm #12213
I think that this idea should be carried out in round 6 before Michael begins soul completion because this topic identifies an important concept of free will and desire, which I think underscores the essence of what Daoists are trying to do. I will continue from Singing Ocean’s last post.
This idea that wuji polarizing itself and stepping down to the very bottom as an act of free will as Michael said is inaccurate. What Singing Ocean said that free will may be jing frequency is accurate. Shen frequency being desire. This is where negative desire overshadows will and freedom is minimized. Therefore, with what little free will we have, we should step up to shen and re-structure the ego and free ourselves.
We cannot say that free will is an illusion, saying that is like saying our jing is an illusion. Only, due to the suppresion by our negative desires or negative ego, will is very limited.
You see, wuji is formless and does not have any form of jing, qi, and shen. Although, in its formlessness it has infinte potential to create this frequency; hence, me talking about tachyon/neutrinos being capable of stepping down into any frequency. So, the stepping down point from wuji to spirit is that desire itself, which is yuan shen, the original desire to be free, but can only be free in jing frequency.
Wuji into one, to two, to three, to 10,000 is the desire to do so, not an act of free will. Spirit is eternal and as a result, has no beginning and no end and therefore desired to step out of wuji into neutral spirit or yuan shen. It could only be manifested as spirit because wuji has the potential to create shen frequency. This desire is then carried out all the way to the jing frequency as an expression of the utmost freedom in a functional state.
Yuan shen stepping down into the human body was a desire and not an act of free will. Now that we are in a human body, we have free will but our desire is not what it should be, this means that spirit is incomplete. Why? Because shen functions as desire. Our original spirit, or original nature, whichever you call it, desires to be free. It has done that as we are in a human body and have free will, but the free will is limited as jing is, linear.
So, the emphasis placed by Daoists to begin with jing is definately a correct one because it certainly does not mean we have no free will, we are using all the free will we have (jing frequency) and making the best use of this free will.
What is the best use of free will (jing frequency)? To get more free will. How? Go to that what limits our free will, out shen frequency or desire. But that is the point, that this desire to be free, to have unlimited free will is overshadowed by negative ego fragments and we have many desires that are no good. Why some spiritual traditions go to emptiness, to clear these desires, or as you can choose to call them thoughts, passions, etc. Rather we can shape them by going to that which precedes the shen frequency, the qi frequency!
So, the best use of using our jing frequency (free will) is shaping the life force. As Michael says, communicating to it into what we want it to do. We are using it as a tool to fix our ego. This is the essence of the Daoist alchemical process. I think that this is that microcosmic reflection of the macrocosmos. We just use what freedom we have and do the best we can with it. Following a Daoist path is using the utmost amount of freedom you have and putting that to the best use. Or, atleast that is what the Daoist methods should focus on.
Hope there’s not too much argument this time,
FajinApril 3, 2006 at 1:36 am #12214
I think you missed the essence of my point, which was that the Wu Ji, as infinite potential, contains yuan shen, yuan qi AND Yuan Jing.
If you go a little further down the postings, you will see a short discussion about the structure of free will (“what is it?”). Essentially the answer that came up was that it is a combination of the negative, positive and neutral ego.
Maybe this is the point that you disagree with. But if yuan shen is desire and that is the totality of the Wu Ji as you describe it, doesn’t desire imply movement? Then the whole Wu Ji would be in conscious yearning and already in an imbalance of movement from the neutral state, as desire implies that there is also satisfaction upon receiving the desired state, so it would be polarized and not neutral.April 3, 2006 at 2:16 am #12216
Hi Singing Ocean,
I will explain.
>>Maybe this is the point that you disagree with. But if yuan shen is desire and that is the totality of the Wu Ji as you describe it, doesn’t desire imply movement? Then the whole Wu Ji would be in conscious yearning and already in an imbalance of movement from the neutral state, as desire implies that there is also satisfaction upon receiving the desired state, so it would be polarized and not neutral.<< *The movement of wuji is what allowed the yuan shen to manifest. Because wuji attempted to give rise to 10,000 things we know that it has the desire to manifest itself in every way it can. Then, hopefully with the level of free will that is on the jing level, they can all return to the oneness with everything, ie. the whole wheel. When yuan shen steps down into qi level, or cyclical time, there is polarity, or yin yang. Concsiousness this time has a wheel and expands to the spokes of the wheel. Now, there is movement because there is free will. I hope that this answers it! Smiles, FajinApril 3, 2006 at 4:05 am #12218
I understand all the stuff about the wuji stepping iself down to the physical vibration.
To be clear, the part of your explanation that does not work for me is the idea that primordial heaven (wuji) contains only yuan shen; yuan jing, qi and shen are present at all levels, although in smaller amounts in the slower dimensions.April 3, 2006 at 4:20 am #12220
there is movement because there is yin, yang and yuan; positive, negative and neutral ego that equals free will. Didn’t I just say that in my post previous to yours?April 3, 2006 at 4:21 am #12222
Please tell me then what does primordial heaven contain in your view and so I understand where you’re coming from.
FajinApril 3, 2006 at 4:22 am #12224
You did say that previously but I was referring to movement of wuji and desire to be free.
FajinApril 3, 2006 at 4:34 am #12226
It contains potential yuan jing, qi and shen in an undifferentiated state. Chaos-unity.April 3, 2006 at 4:44 am #12228
Then what is the disagreement? If wuji has potential jing, qi, shen, it then manifests itself on all those levels.April 3, 2006 at 4:54 am #12230
whoops, I meant to say earlier that primordial heaven (hun tun) contains yuan jing, qi and shen; the wu ji is unknown.
The disagreement came from what it sounded like you were saying that there is only yuan SHEN in primordial heaven, qi in early heaven and jing in later heaven. Is that what you meant, or did it just sound like that?April 3, 2006 at 5:05 am #12232
It looks like there was some confusion, that’s OK. Jing, qi, and shen exist on all dimensions. With this I agree and never have said otherwise. I never said anything about the stepping down with regrds to what dimension, just into which reality or level as you can call it. I think we agree.
FajinApril 3, 2006 at 11:29 pm #12234
It sure sounded like you were saying that there is only free will through the jing in later heaven/physical plane, but that’s OK.
So, in YOUR VIEW, if you isolate free will in the Jingshen of the kidney Zhi (vital organ spirit), is that in the conditioned self, or the pure virtue qualities of early heaven?
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