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Hello Michael,
>>Unlike Fajin, I do not equate God with Tao; I equate all Creator Gods with emanations of Original Spirit, but that is another discussion<<
*I agree with Christianity about the trinity. That there are three Gods one. The Father (yang), the Son (yin), and the Holy Spirit (yuan).
I equate the Father to Dao. Yang, because it's the macrocosmic way of nature.
I equate the Son, as representing humanity. The Creator Gods were alien in origin. This is body/jing/lower dantian/yin, etc. Our bodies as the microcosmos.
I also equate the Holy Spirit as Original Spirit, the androgynous self.
These three are all responsible for creation. I wonder what your Atlantean teacher says. I got the breakdown from my Reptilian friend who came uninvited, not this model but heart-intent as the spark of creation. That's why I'm so gung-ho on concsiousness!
Middle dantian between upper/lower dantians as the center of concsiousness and yuan/androgynous self. Heart chakra as storing creative powers in the Indian tradition. Without the heart chakra, no creativity and we therefore no longer create. Yuan also relates to qi as yuan between jing and shen, as you know. Concsiousness creates. But it needs body and Dao, microcosm and macrocosm, yin and yang.
This explains my point!
Smiles,
FajinHello Bagua,
Did you miss me?
Don’t know if that’s what Michael meant, but I’ll leave off from your assumptions.
A good peice of advice that I was told on Wudang was to follow Earth. Why? Because Earth follows Heaven, and Heaven follows Dao. If we follow Earth, then we know we’re on the right track. Ahhhhhhhh, why I so adore the martial arts, especially those that embrace cultivation with the Earth force.
You already know my version of creation, so I won’t go there, but feel free to continue wherever you prefer my good old buddy.
Smiling in the Light,
FajinHi Fajin:
Of course I missed you.
Live your life and if a woman (assuming thats your choice) enters your life you want to spend time, friendship and fun, go for it, otherwise enjoy your life dont think about it. If you meet someone special, OH you will know it, its transcendental and unlike anything else.
Please review MW theory on how humans are flawed, he is saying Heaven and Earth are not balanced, not in harmony and so polarized they created Humanity to resolve their conflict. I have asked but no one answers. If Heaven and Earth are so polarized and used their free will unfavorably and are the cause of the human condition, why do all the classic say follow the way of heaven and earth? Who has it wrong?
Welcome back.
bagua
>>”I have asked but no one answers.”
We have all answered you, are you listening? Basically, the answer was that humanity REFLECTS the separation between heaven and earth (form and formless) in a number of ways microscosmically.
I think you are looking for an ABSOLUTE STATE, an ultimate unmoving static answer, whereas we are saying it is a PROCESS. Follow the Way of heaven and earth, follow the INTERACTION of heaven and earth: harmonize all lights! Blunt all sharp edges! untie all tangles! The dao is like an empty bowl , which in BEING USED (in its process of harmonization), can never be filled up.
Hi Bagua,
Thank you very much for the wonderful reply. I’m glad that I left a tattoo on your heart, you have made a permanent one on mine as well. And good advice on meeting that special someone, I’ll remember this. Thank you!
About MW’s theory…
Well, the big question is of course, why did Heaven and Earth create humanity?
We know it went One to Two, Two to Three, and Three to Ten Thousand. Dao being that one and Heaven and Earth being the two and Humanity in between (yuan) being the Third along with the Two (Heaven and Earth). The three forces of Heaven, Earth, and Man.
Again, my view on it is to reverse it as I am persistent on this. So if we assume that reversing the process, which is characteristic of all Daoist schools, is the correct way to go. We would attempt to combine Three to Two, and Two to One. So, I would have to say that there was totality, then partiality, now we attempt totality again.
We became partialized in the quest for concsiousness to seek the highest evolution. My view differs from Michael in that, it was concsiousness that is the driving force behind partiality, not because Heaven and Earth chose. We already spoke of this in the previous rounds, but would not mind for more!
I think that all classics follow Heaven and Earth because they originated from Dao before humanity. We slowly go back to that origin by starting right what’s under our feet, the Earth, which is related to the jing frequency. This is why I regard the Earth/jing level as the highest free will. So unique about the Daoists to place such a strong emphasis on the body and Earth.
Smiles,
FajinHi Singing Ocean,
You made a strong point that is the key between this debate. It is that Bagua sees that creation happened all at once like the Big Bang. While we see it as a process. From One to Two, Two to Three, Three to Ten Thousand and we try to make it go back again in that process. But that’s the thing, that Bagua does not buy into that! Maybe he can bring us a good point as to why?
Smiles,
FajinHi SO:
You are really singing tonight.
I will not allow you all to slip and slide.
Please confirm if this is an accurate understanding of MW post.
1. Heaven and Eath have never been in harmony or integrated?
If yes this is in contradiction to every taoist teaching.2. Where in the classics does it say Heaven and Earth are separated?
3. Why would we want to follow the way of heaven when they are separate and could not inegrate and harmonize?
Please stay on track on this part of the theory as it is an integral aspect to the entire split soul theory.
thank you Singing Ocean,
bagua
Hi Bagua,
Interesting. Oceans that sing and Baguas that spin and Fajin strikes that explode!
Everything would be in harmony between man and Dao, but it is the negative ego of man that blocks this harmony and man is not in harmony with Heaven and Earth. The Reptilian told me that everything in the universe is perfect, it is only in us the capacity for imperfection.
So, I agree with you Bagua, everything is in harmony, except one peice, concsiousness. Concsiousness got us into this, and as a result we have to suffer from a polarity of positive and negative ego, and our neutral self as well. Yuan (self) has to re-combine yin (earth) and yang (heaven) into one harmonious whole. We do this by going to Earth first.
Hope that helps,
FajinHi faj:
The fundametal difference is, I believe humanity/creation and the creator are one, and each person has the capicity to experience their inseparable relationship to the whole; we can directly experience both the collective and individual Qi fields.
The methods of dealing with conditioning, habits and patterns vary, whether Taoist or Chan or others, for most of us it takes many years of practice to refine ourselves to where most of our daily life is lived from this space. This time is the alchemical process, I have a broad understanding of ways to cultivate the three treasures, but beleive the life long cultivation, and applying it in daily life is the real alchemy, it goes to the marrow and shen.
Bagua
Hey Bagua,
I like it when you said that the real alchemy is about how well we use it to adapt to life. This is what I think is the critical point in inner alchemy.
In Yoga, you are familiar with the states of superconcsiousness. It is states like these like Christ Concsiousness or whatever you call it that allow us to adapt to life. That’s why I go with spiritual evolution, to help concsiousness evolve. That’s the backbone behind life, concsiousness. We must cultivate for this.
Again, it is the fact that I believe we are self-creation that separates our points as well. I placemy trust in the self and my intent to achieve a greater understanding of the interaction and union of Dao and self, and achieving a swift evolution for concsiousness.
Smiling in the Light of the Dao,
FajinHeaven and Earth are in harmony, but they are in a polarized relationship otherwise why would we bother to make the distinction between HEAVEN and EARTH? We would just call it THE FORMLESS. Because of the fact that there is a distinction, it does not mean they ultimately are not in harmony. But because there is a distinction, we DISTINGUISH between them and are in PROCESS to HARMONIZE them.
>>”2. Where in the classics does it say Heaven and Earth are separated?”
It implies it in the fact that they bother to make the verbal distinction between teh terms heaven and earth (form and formless). If they were not separated, we would call them simply THE PRIMORDIAL MASS OF UNDIFFERENTIATED ONENESS (from which they were born), but because they are differentiated, we call them HEAVEN and EARTH.
Don’t get hung up on the word “separated”. Catch my drift?
Bagua,
I completely accept your intention as correct, the traditional daoist dictum that a cultivator should harmonize with Heaven and Earth. And you know that the fundamental premise of my Greater Kan & Li is “Embrace the Earth, and Heaven will Chase You” – same line that Fajin takes, and what is at the core of five phases system where Earth is the central element, not ether. So Daoists don’t chase the ether, they embrace the earth, and heaven, which is its ethereal aspect, then comes to us.
I am highlighting the distinction between Heaven and Earth to take our understanding of the binary soul tension to a deeper level.
Just because there is a dynamic tension between Heaven and Earth does not imply that they are NOT in harmony.
There is a dynamic tension between yin-yang that drives creation in the same way – but they are not the same.
It is reflected in everything – left-right brain tension, binary soul tension. Heaven-Earth is a single entity, but it holds the tension of creation within it.I believe that this particular physical plane (one small corner of Earth) represents the “unconscious” of Heaven, its dark side, and so it is in the process of “cooking” this reality to grasp the inner nature of its own dark side. We are injected into the process as Humans to clarify and evolve that relation between Heaven-Earth. But its not a pre-determined state of harmony, the harmony exists only in the moment, and is constantly evolving.
Would you not agree there is a “difference” between the Early and Later heaven arrangements, a creative tension between them? They have the exact same trigrams, but their arrangement creates a dynamic movement between the two states. In my musical view of the I Ching, they are singing different songs, using the same chords.
I contend that being aware of the dynamic tension between Heaven and Earth will help us to resolve the tension within our own binary soul, and vice versa. But the tension originated in Heaven and Earth, not in humans, which is their child. Same with every family: the child of mother and father is creative attempt to evolve a unique new harmony between the essence of mother & father. But you cannot actually know what is the hidden tension until you manifest the child, the child plays it out for you.
Same story with Heaven & Earth, they NEED humanity to play out their intra-psychic drama. That’s what we add to the trinitarian dynamic – we are not just passive bystanders who happened to start killing each other over what are at core sexual differences, and who when we wake up will dissolve back into Heaven and Earth and disappear gently into the Night of some Void. No, the parents don’t want to destroy/dissolve their child, they want to rebirth their own source within the child in a new and more aware/immortal Way.
Guess we are going to have to have a live meeting of this Daoist Philosophers Club at some point, and allow our energy bodies to wrestle it out….
Smiling from the hidden space between Heaven & Earth,
michaelHi Fajin:
Can you explain what you mean by consciousness, both in a macro way and for humanity.
thanks,
bagua
Hi SO:
Thanks for the clarifications.
But the theory was saying Heaven and Earth were so polarized they created the “Human Condition” which led to murder, rape, etc. that it is the fault of Heaven and Earth, so this is not just natural dynamic polarity of Yin-Yang forces. The theory says Heaven and Earth created this conditon?
Any thoughts on this?
thanks,
bagua
Hello Bagua,
I guess what you mean by macroway and humanity is Dao and Man. Well, I relate concsiousness to Yuan Shen. It is about continuing evolution of Original Spirit by understanding Dao and Man. We should learn as much as we can about our bodies and the macrocosmic way of nature and seek greater union of them. Daoists have already gotten to a great deal in understanding wuxing, yin-yang, bagua, etc. and the different processes of the body like steaming, pearls, etc. All this alchemical work for Original Spirit.
Smiles,
Fajin
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