January 5, 2006 at 1:18 pm #9720
I have a question about activating what is called the sacrum pump in relation to various practices.
This is after reading a bit about it in the Alchemical Taoism.com site…
There is a reference there of activating the pump – (see link!)
and of course this is reffered to in various other sources which I have encountered, namely Mantak Chia and in the excellent Qigong Meditation from YMAA publications…
However this cause some confusion so here are some question:
1. Physically, which muscles causeinduce the sacrum to squeezepump?
I can definately squeeze my perineum, i.e. Hui-Yin location;
Another is contracting the two cheeks of the bottom which makes the
tailbone ‘hide’ between those muscles;
a third and more subtle muscular contraction is contracting the abs
in a way that tightens the opposite lower back muscles.
Now, is ANY of these stretches considered a ‘sacrum squeeze’??
if not, then what is it and what muscles squeeze as a result..?
2. After exercise such as jumping on trampoline or after long sessions in
a sauna (& then alternating between hot and cold showers etc), I can
definately feel a strong pulsation in the body especially
activating the pumpJanuary 6, 2006 at 6:36 pm #9721
g> perineum, .. cheeks of the bottom .. contracting the abs
in a way that tightens the opposite lower back muscles
Now, is ANY of these stretches considered a ‘sacrum squeeze’??
if not, then what is it and what muscles squeeze as a result..? >
What I’m referring to in the essay at the link that you provided, is actually flexing the muscles that are directly connected to the sacrum. The variation in that essay, entitled “sacrum-squeeze”, gives details on how to get to those muscles, and acknowledges that they are seldom deliberately flexed – so its natural to feel awkward, or with no point of reference, at first. Follow the directions and you’ll find them. The result is that the sacrum pulses.January 7, 2006 at 9:53 am #9723
Thanks for the reply,
I will try but it is difficult with no reference… (even a reference described as a metaphor, i.e. “breath in way that, if a feather was placed near your nose it will not move” -> the metaphor promotes a certain kind of behavior which otherwise would be perhaps more difficult to describe…).
Anyone else who wishes to share his view on the sacrum pump issue?
GiladJanuary 7, 2006 at 1:38 pm #9725
g> I will try but it is difficult with no reference… >
The thing that gets you to it is the breathing of the sacrum-squeeze method.
Quote from that page,
~ begin quote ~
Initially, when I was experimenting, I wasn’t “aiming” for the sacrum, and really had no idea that I’d latch on to the sacrum. I just exhaled s-l-o-w-l-y in the lower tan tien, then gave a little squeeze (like flexing a loose fist, close~open) in the area that felt like the middle. Its just that the front and back can get pretty close at the bottom of the exhale, so when I ‘aimed’ for the middle my squeeze got the sacrum some, probably more the front part of the sacrum than the back of it really. Over time, and with more experimentation, I found that I could flex the muscles around the front and back of the sacrum.
~ end quote ~
So, if you put your attention in your lower abdomen and exhale s-l-o-w-l-y, the front and back of your lower ab will get closer. At the bottom of the exhale, just gently flex in what might feel like “the middle”, or somewhat back of that. Likely that you will get the sacrum. Its the breathing, the bottom of the exhale that gets you in the right area so that when you flex in there (with some experimentation) you’ll get the sacrum.
TrunkJanuary 9, 2006 at 1:40 pm #9727
My comments are not meant to shut down your inquiry, only to point out that your issue is at least partly addressed in the essay. Activating the sacrum, and the genitals~sacrum connection, is really important. And any further light you, or anyone else, can shed on it by curiosity, inquiry, dialgoue, is valuable. Brand new information, better details of existing ideas, or suggestions of better wording/presentation .. all invited.
TrunkJanuary 9, 2006 at 2:08 pm #9729
Trunk, I never meant to suggest you were shutting a conversation 🙂
Thanks..January 10, 2006 at 12:54 pm #9731
I think that Trunk, following in the taoist tradition, is always pushing the envelop on observing the subtlety of body-mind interactions possible. It takes a while to distinguish between pulsing the perineum, the anus, or the sacrum separately. His replies below I think clarify the possibility.
Fact is, we used to have tails in our evolutionary development from primates. That’s why we have latent muscles for controlling that tail. My wife teaches a really good set of tail and sacrum movement feldenkrais movements in our live Primordial class in asheville. It will be available soon on audio tape. Feldenkrais movements I believe were derived from tao yin; feldenkrais studied in japan for two years, and may have been exposed there. Lots of of his movements I see also in the tao yin movements taught by jeffrey yuen (not available on video, at least yet). he learned them from his grandfather. But they involve creating subtle movements and counter – movements to awaken new possibilitie of movement, and thus chi flow.
The simplest way for most folks to open up sacral movement (and thus awareness of its energetic possibilities) is through movements that activate the sacrum. This gets the jing within the sacrum vibrating and transforming into chi, which then releases into the spinal pathway.
In the Open Chi flow in the Orbit qigong, I use the second movement, Crossing the Great Ocean to get maximal extension and flexion of the tailbone, part of a snaking action of the spine. Do that for a few minutes, you will feel strong pulsation. But you have to lift and tuck the tailbone at the extreme of the squatting and diving movement.
michaelJanuary 12, 2006 at 5:59 am #9733
Intersting that you raise that, Trunk.
This is meant as an inquiry based on what I’ve experienced so far.
I experienced the sacrum pulsing only once, it may have been a fluke, or:
– I have since been trying “too” hard
– I need to do it after gathering much qi
In any case, I have noticed latelly that although it hasn’t pulsated, I think I’m at least getting a better feel for the muscles in question.
It seems that the slower the exhale, the easier it is to be aware of the area in question. The exhale, if slow enough, seems to almost “touch” the sacrum (?) It seems to be a prcess of awakening them from dormancy (?)
The ? are to indicate that I’m not sure if that’s correct, but it seems to be the case to me.
Thanks to you and gemini for raising this topic again, ’cause I’m otherwise fly’n solo in my practice.January 12, 2006 at 12:02 pm #9735
> takes a while to distinguish between pulsing the perineum, the anus, or the sacrum separately >
PC exercises can be done, exploring small segments/portions of the pc muscles. (After, of course, some general familiarity with the muscles there, “oh, hey! there are muscles there and I can flex them.”)
> latent muscles for controlling that tail. >
Someone said that in still standing practice they “draw slow circles” on the ground with their coccyx. ..I mean, through space, right.
> feldenkrais movements in our live Primordial class in asheville. >
Interesting.January 13, 2006 at 1:25 pm #9737
> Intersting that you raise that, Trunk.
This is meant as an inquiry based on what I’ve experienced so far. >
I was just concerned that my comments might’ve come off as “Go back and read the essay, its all in there”, which might shut down open inquiry.
> I experienced the sacrum pulsing only once, it may have been a fluke, or:
– I have since been trying “too” hard
– I need to do it after gathering much qi >
My experience is that the pulsing doesn’t need to be done very often (once or twice a week), or at least if I do it often there isn’t the “wow its really pulsing” sensation, just more of a massage (the muscles massaging the area).
> It seems that the slower the exhale, the easier it is to be aware of the area in question. >
The lower tan tien exhale has to be slow, and awareness needs to be resting in the ltt.
> The exhale, if slow enough, seems to almost “touch” the sacrum (?) >
Yup, that’s the way it feels.
(Not sure if that’s a mechanically accurate description, but it is how it feels.)
> It seems to be a process of awakening them from dormancy (?) >
Yes. This parallels my experience also.
I’m finding that my sacrum and some of the potent acupoints in the lower tan tien (hui yin) are getting really activated, and they’re interacting in ways that’re helpful.
These are items (hui yin, sacrum) that were mentioned way back in step 1 .. reading the old books, lectures, way back when. I’m just finding that I never really got them activated, and its taken considerable experimentation to find a way. As a result, though, it feels good and is helping a lot (if a little shameful at my 20 year lag). lol.January 14, 2006 at 6:03 am #9739
Yeah, that’s how it been recently, more of a gentle massage rather than the obvious pulsation that happened initially.
Saying that the slow exhale “touches” the sacrum was a pretty poor description on my part. But I’m glad you knew what I was trying to say.
Did you get those points ie hui yin (and ming men?) activated using the little orbit?January 14, 2006 at 10:50 am #9741
> Saying that the slow exhale “touches” the sacrum was a pretty poor description >
I thought it was a good description; that’s how it feels.
> Did you get those points ie hui yin (and ming men?) activated using the little orbit? >
No. Sort of the other way around: the little orbit is more there as a result of getting the points activated.
Re-read the Exploring the Exhale essay. I’ve revised it a number of times recently, and the ways I’ve been – recently fairly successfully – activating the points are in there.
– exhaling while concentrating on opposite pts
– sacrum-squeeze (and once you’re good with that, applying it to the whole lumbar region)
– perineum-lift (activates hui yin)
There is a lot of mileage to be gotten from what’s in that essay. Once you’ve explored those, go through them again. You’ll find that, because of sacrum-activation, concentration on opposite pts (while exhaling) engages a profound connection between the genitals and coccyx-and-sacrum (and similarly on up the spine w/opposite front pts). Hui yin engages the feet more, connects to the crown, interacts between the genitals and sacrum, and sort of pulls the whole thing together. Once activated, those pts (and potent anatomy) produce the little orbit (at least that’s how I’m experiencing it right now).
TrunkJanuary 14, 2006 at 9:18 pm #9743
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaate, (sorry, that’s how we talk sometimes, it’s meant to emphasise “wooooow”),
there sure is much revealed in these practices. I noticed that sometimes, some unspecific tension emerges afterwards, sort of like being pissed off at nothing in particular. Must be remnant tension in the lower jiao being stirred up.
This seems to correlate with your statement “…….much of the jam up that can occur in the lower tan tien has to do with residual unprocessed tension”
I also found that doing some gentle foot slapping and ankle/wrist rotations as a warm up enhances the practice.
matSeptember 6, 2011 at 6:59 am #9745
I am here on the new forum and I read the old questions. Perhaps it is possible to return to the old questions. I exercise now and QF2 Crossing the Great Ocean from the DVD I’m not sure whether to touch “underwater” or “above”. Can you help me? Thank you.
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