September 2, 2006 at 6:45 pm #17354
You have made some interesting points. I think that this is a confusion over certain terms, yet still there is a different perspective we each share.
>>This is a nice statement of Bagua’s personal beliefs, but it is also Bagua backpedaling again and distancing himself from the Wikipedia definition of Buddhism, which posits Nirvana as the complete Cessation of Self, NOT the growth of the True Self. The closest thing to Bagua’s notion of True Self is the Buddhist stage of becoming an Arhat, but even that is deemed trapped in cycles of incarnation.< < *Yes, the self/xin/ego or whatever you want to call it does come to cessaation when we use methods to make it (mind/self) still. As a result, the true self takes the main role. I know you dislike the idea of true self, because it tends to make things look dualistic, but is not. This is not a yin-yang comparison. The heart shen and yuan shen both reside in the heart. It is normally the heart shen (xin) taking the role of governing the other 4 shen, but when we begin to use the yuan shen as taking the main role. The ego does nothing, and everything happens by itself. That is wu-hsin (non-mindedness). I draw a major line from these quotes. Maybe you can further explain them please. They fully support my perspective of the true mind. Oh, and they are very Daoist too 🙂 The Preserver of the Truth says: "Some ask which is most important vitality, energy, or spirit. Master Ziyang said, 'Spirit is most important.' The basic spirit is the true mind, which is the true essence. the medicine used therefore is not material medicine; the subtle action of the work of wizardry is all in this essence. Ancient custom listed it as a medicine, but later Taoists ignorant of the root source of the Great Way often disregarded this. So basic spirit wound up as a 'medicine', with an extra 'intent' outside the basic spirit to employ it. Nothing could be more incoherent than this." [PT, p. 34] "Master Ziyang said, 'Using spirit, use the basic spirit, not the thinking spirit.' "He also said, '... Basic essence is nothing other than energy which is congealed and alive.' And, 'When the basic spirit appears, the basic energy arises; when basic essence is restored, basic energy is born.' "Some ask if the basic spirit and the thinking spirit are one or two. Mind, essence, and spirit are one ... When this basic spirit is later moved by emotional consciousness, the basic spirit sinks into emotional consciousness and turns into the thinking spirit." [PT, p. 35] "Master Sanfeng said, 'What is intent? It is the outward function of the basic spirit; it is not that there is also an intent in addition to the basic spirit.' "Master Ziyang said, 'Mind is the natural leader: when it is used without artificiality, then what activates it is the basic spirit. This is the alchemical use of mind.' "So you should not overactivate intent. Once you overactivate intent, you are trying to force progress and not being natural. The problems caused by the toil of forced exercises are not trivial ... If you have even a single thought of deliberate arrangement, then you are overactivating intent." To sum up, my point is that this whole model is like this: 4 shen - metal, water, wood, fire heart shen - earth yuan shen - space/ether (which is what should be used as Master Zhiyang says, not the heart shen/ego self) So, yes, the heart shen, other 4 shen, and yuan shen are all one. Not separate. If we can only "use the basic spirit", then we cultivate the oneness of selfhood. This oneness is the true you, not separated. >>Wuwei just means spontaneous action, according to the scholars of classical Daoist chinse I’ve read. it doesn’t mean cessation of action, or cessation of all thought or all feeling.< < *Spontaneous action arises when the true self, which is the wholeness of all shen working together by the yuan shen, does. So it is not that "I" made an action, but it acts all by itself. This is well-known in martial art circles. Bruce Lee said, "I do not hit, it hits all by itself." That is wu-wei. >>Fagin in another post quotes “True Knowledge” – a Buddhist inspired term created by Thomas Cleary, imposed on Taoist alhcemical works. Again, Buddhist “mind state” thinking is different than Taoist alchemical “jing-qi-shen” processual thinking based on the Life Force, and we should not allow appropriations or approximate translations to confanbulate the two.< < *If you read my other post to Wendy, you would see how I stated that Buddhists use koans (Jap.) or gong-ans (Chinese) to allow the yuan shen to "answer" the question. Only yuan shen has this knowledge, it is the real knowledge of our Original Spirit carried on though many, many past lifetimes which is infinately wiser than our intellectual mind (ego-self). Is consistency processual? >>This kind of “ULTIMATE” thinking is part of Buddhist verbal campaign against “ego” (a modern psychological term which means self) and ulitmate Buddhist drive to eliminate free will expression in the physical plane by getting everyone off the Wheel of Incarnation. By associating “negative thoughts and emotions” as inexorably linked with the personal self, they hope to damn the right of the personal self and free will to exist.<< *I think the whole issue of free will is not very necessary if we can agree that the yuan shen (true self) is the one that is doing rather than the ego. Because to become liberated, means to let go of that which stands in the way of freedom. The rest of what you said is pretty much about selfhood which I have explained my point above. This is a wuxing relationship, not a dualistic one. Question: You go to China and learn new methods everytime you go there. Would you care to learn some Ch'an methods the next time? 🙂 Smiles from the Middle Kingdom, Fajin
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