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December 6, 2007 at 11:51 am #26532Michael WinnKeymaster
Sent to my national elist yesterday.
Inside Chi Flows Naturally:
1. Essay on the question that few seem to be asking: is full sexual
completion achievable, through either a sexual love relationship or
spiritual practice? Another way to ask it: is it possible to embody an
integrated male-female state (divine androgyny) while still living in a male
or female sexed physical body? Is the very desire of our soul to integrate
its male and female halves the hidden driver behind all sexual and romantic
love?I have been exploring variants of these questions for decades. My
current premise: humans have a binary or split soul. This soul tension flows
into our sexed body-mind. Many spiritual practices seems to target the mind,
rather than the soul. Is there a way to energetically resolve this sexual
tension at the soul level?Recently I had a breakthrough, a new alchemical meditation practice I
received as a transmission from some more profound level of my Self. You
could call it way to induce “soul sex”, the internal copulation of the split
halves of our soul.What I discovered was a method of circulating soul essence (a particular
quality of “jing”) in a “pre-natal orbit” pathway. This orbit flows in a
different pattern than the spiral around the spine and chest of
the standard Taoist Microcosmic Orbit – it also cycles through the core
channel. It also seems my “soul question” led me to have numerous intense
experiences of astral or beyond-the-body sex – i.e. exchange of soul essence
as a kind of macro-cosmic orbit shared with others souls. More on astral sex
in my essay.This new “Advanced Lesser Kan & Li: Second Refining of the Golden
Elixir” practice is given on the Glastonbury/Stonehenge UK September 2007
retreat. The audio CD set is 17 hours, and includes other powerful new
practices: the Wudang MACRO-cosmic Orbit, and a great new Fusion 3 practice
to concentrate the 8 cosmic forces + Self: The 9 Cosmic Spirals of the
Energy Body. The CDs also have the full confession and juicy details of my
astral plane sex life…:). The new practice is very intense if you have
done the prerequisite training.
This audio course is now available – but not yet on the website. To
order call 888-999-0555 (M-Fri. 1-5 pm) or email info@healingdao.com. Note:
it is recommended you complete the regular Lesser kan and Li course before
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taken in sequence. This new practice will intensify the practices of all the
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higher practices. Knowledge of the ‘Wudang orbit method taught in my Qigong
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profound spiritual work in the Great Darkness. A great time to dissolve your
little fears into this great dark ocean, let them come back as growing light
for the rest of the year. Be sure to do a pre-Solstice ceremony on your
own.
The best (darkest) time for this Great Yin ritual is at midnight,
Sunday Dec. 9. I suggest you do a Winter Solstice ceremony at that time.
Plant a seed intention, of whatever it is you wish to organically unfold
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concrete). See my old e-letter “Tap the Great Yin Power of Winter
Solstice! History of Solstice “Holy
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Call Wendy in my office at 888-999-0555 or email: info@healingdao.com.————————–
Dear Seekers of the Sexual Mysteries of the Soul,
I have already written extensively about how, from the viewpoint of
Taoist cosmology, we humans got into these strangely wonderful if sometimes
awkward contraptions we call a physical body. Briefly, our body-minds are a
crystallization of natural cosmic yin-yang and five-phase forces. This a
basic Taoist principle – that humans are a microcosm of nature.
The original human being in the astral plane was androgynous (both male &
female), and hence immortal- it could self-reproduce. This allowed us to
continuously explore the process of creation, a.k.a Life. I received the
information that during the process of polarization into physicality, a
problem arose when we split into separate male and female bodies in the
physical plane. We unknowingly scattered and lost much of our Original
Breath (yuan chi) – the neutral force that bound the original yin/female and
yang/male forces together.This new level of sexual polarity caused a feeling of separation from
source/heaven and eventually led to the battle of the sexes on
earth. (see www.healingdao.com/healinglove.html#slt for talk on “Sexual
Qigong: Secret Tao Path to Completing our Human Identity”).
Immortality Formulas: Designed to Rebirth our Androgynous SelfThe Taoist hermit One Cloud’s “Seven Formulas for Achieving Immorality”
is basically an outline for the process of re-constructing our original
androgynous Energy Body. This isn’t easy, however. Because when you’re in a
man or a woman’s body, your perceptions are largely driven by the polarized
sexual current running your consciousness.Many meditation traditions that I have studied attempt to offset this
sexual bias by focusing on “stillness” or a passive “inner witness” or
“divine self” that is described as sex-less and desire-less. These
traditions often blame some aspect of the lowly physical self – either the
“ego”, the “mind” or our bodily sexual desire – for leading us astray from
our true nature or higher self. I find these to be unnecessary judgments
against the body and its sexual nature. My view is the polarization is now
intentional, and begins BEFORE we incarnate, at the soul level. Humans are
blameless in the predicament they find themselves, only able to manifest as
a male or female, but not both. It’s the root cause of our mortality.Few meditators seeking transcendence seem able to release their deep
sexual tension, especially the supposedly highly enlightened male
gurus/masters who, while posing as celibate transcendents, end up screwing
hordes of their female disciples. A case of “boys will be boys”? The female
gurus seem to have a less scandalous record – but are they truly
desire-less, or perhaps just more discrete? (for the juicy details, see my
article “The Quest for Spiritual Orgasm: Daoist and Tantric Sexual
Cultivation in the
West www.healingdao.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl?rm=mode2&articleid=35). The
parallel in the West is found in the Roman Catholic church, with its history
of widespread sexual abuse by priests recently exposed.Romance: the Cultural Solution to Sexual Tension
The solution to finding sexual peace on the popular level of culture is
more simple. Countless seminars (Sterling comes to mind) and new age writers
like David Deida counsel something like, “if you are male, be totally male.
If you are female, be totally female”. This is the traditional Asian
approach. This seems to make sense on one level – surrender to your bodily
destiny.Men should explore their various roles as father, brother, son,
grandfather, and whatever list of male archetypes you want to choose
(warrior, priest, magician, hunter, etc.). Women should explore their roles
as mother, sister, daughter, grandmother, and various female archetypes
(virgin, priestess, whore, nurturer, etc). This raises political fights over
which archetypes belong to which sex, but essentially is saying that biology
ultimately controls destiny.From a Taoist point of view, this cultural solution to our deepest
biological impulse would be considered one Way of completing your worldly
destiny, or “ming”. Your “mingmen” or Door of Life, is the soul essence
flowing between your two kidneys to form your body. It carries in it a
demand that we complete some mission in the world. We each have a unique
post-birth destiny, and filling it gives us a feeling of completion. The
Taoist view i’ve met in China is that there are differences between the
sexes, but they tend to disappear if your cultivate to deep levels of soul
integration.This drive to complete “who you were meant to be” is the same impulse
that supports the modern industry of self-fulfillment and self-improvement
books and videos. But most of them are only working at the level of mind,
not soul, so are only partially successful. Our deep soul-sex drive also
feeds the huge “quest for romance” theme in songs and films, the default
cultural reason for existing.But the simplicity of the biological-cultural romance model of sexual
completion gets a bit fuzzy when you scratch the surface of it. The romance
is never wholly satisfying. You cannot permanently unite with your lover.
Lovers ultimately get sick and die on you. There are all the confused gender
issues, people claiming they were born in the wrong sexed body. The sense of
dissatisfaction with marriage and culture, the feeling there must be some
deeper fulfillment beyond working your whole life to scratch the sexual itch
and all its attendant cultural roles.Modern science steps in to close the gap: you are working for the
survival of your species. But Darwinism feels inadequate, too
one-dimensional, like chewing cardboard. It fails to fully explain the
evolution of collective cooperation and the range of consciousness embedded
in nature itself. From the Taoist viewpoint, a dissatisfaction with romantic
love might be our spiritual destiny or “xing” calling us back to re-discover
and love our original bisexed androgynous nature.Can Inner Alchemy Create A Male-Female Energy Body?
This brings us to the key question: is it possible to simultaneously
satisfy both our worldly destiny of biological romance and our spiritual
destiny of divine androgyny, aka immortality?The Taoist meditations of the Inner Smile and the Microcosmic Orbit seem
aimed at harmonizing this tension in our sexual-spiritual nature. The Inner
Smile cultivates the sense of our neutral inner witness. It invites our soul
force to flow in and unconditionally accept what is, thereby freeing the
stuck aspects of our outer self to move on and unfold their unique male or
female destiny.The Orbit actively embraces both our conscious front and our unconscious
back, creating a circular flow of the male fire and female water channels in
the body. This circular flow harmonizes the direct expression of our
male/yang/governor and female/yin/conception energy pathways. In effect, it
begins the process of consciously mixing our male and female energies.But if we analyze the sequence of the formulas, the Inner Smile and Orbit
apparently aren’t enough to heal the soul’s split. That is why there are
seven alchemy formulas to do the job – the sexually split soul runs very
deep, and must be healed or integrated on many levels, not just for our
personal selves walking the earth looking for romance.It is an unresolved issue for our ancestors trapped in sun-moon time
cycles, and for the collective/archetypal level of human consciousness
embodied in the planets and our astrology. It’s beginnings are found at the
celestial level – in the zodiacal stellar consciousness that we could call
the field of our oversouls.In One Cloud’s 1st Formula, the chi flowing in the orbit is superficial
in the sense it harmonizes our outer or post-birth chi only. It’s One
Cloud’s 2nd Formula of Inner sexual alchemy – Lesser Kan & Li –
that includes a method of “self-intercourse”. This internal sex marries our
inner male and inner female. The fire and water halves of our soul are
guided to copulate in the central channel. This moves us consciously into
the energetic domain of the pre-birth, the formless self, where our soul
first polarized itself into the male or female sexed body.The Missing Element in Lesser Kan & Li
But I had noticed in both myself and in my students that something was
missing in the Lesser Kan and Li practice, some element of our sexuality was
not completely being resolved. It was this dissatisfaction that led to my
asking for and receiving the practice I call the” Advanced Lesser Kan and
Li: The Second Refining of the Golden Elixir”. This practice involves
coupling the male and female aspects of the soul (our pre-natal essence)
along the entire axis of our body’s core channel and in all three dantian.What I perceived was that even though the male and female halves were
coupling and resolving their past “sexual split” in the original Lesser Kan
and Li, the higher levels of the soul collective downloading energy from
the future was still being polarized by our male or female physically sexed
vessel. This new practice, with its pre-natal Microcosmic Orbit, brings the
horizontal sexual tension of the male/female halves of our soul continuously
into the vertical crown/perineum or heaven/earth axis of our being. So its
more integrated, and refines the Elixir to a higher level. The method is an
evolution of the Wudang Orbit taught in my Qigong Fundamentals 2, which is
necessary to get this new method.How well does the alchemical process resolve the deep sexual tension of
the soul? Can the inner alchemy process truly shift the practitioner from
the sexually polarized state into an androgynous state? I’ve trained many
hundreds of people in the practice. The reported level of progress varies
widely, depending on the adepts’ natural aptitude and self-discipline. The
practices can bring up huge resistance that exists collectively to
re-integrating this male-female split. It requires deep courage and strong
focused practice to keep penetrating to deeper levels of integration.The answer for myself is both clear and ambiguous. I have vastly
expanded the functional presence of my “inner witness”, the aspect of self
that is holding the neutral force that binds my original androgynous self
together. AND I simultaneously have as much or more male sexual energy than
I had as a younger man. My sexual drive is quite different from when i was
younger.My hormones-with-winged-feet are no longer flowing wildly and
indiscriminately out of my groins as an unconscious biological urge. Rather
the sexual impulse emerges, still unpredictably, from an inner space, where
my heart-feeling and kidney-will seem to have integrated into a deeper drive
that I feel is best described as a soul impulse. In short, I only feel
sexual attraction when there is a soul attraction.Subtle Body Sex is Beyond the Personality
More interesting is that this soul impulse, flowing out of my core
channel, seems to have led me to have numerous sexual affairs. Not in the
physical plane, but in the astral plane. These affairs were not generated by
the physical desire of my body and did not originate from the sensory or
culturally shaped mind. Instead, my soul partners spontaneously arrive from
the ethers and impose themselves upon my personality involuntarily.Some astral sex affairs happened with the energy bodies of people I knew
physically, but who were mostly not conscious of the process (I asked).
Other astral affairs are with the souls of complete strangers who seem to
feel the need to exchange some powerful information with me. This
macro-exchange of soul information involves what I would call a second phase
level of kundalini experience that is not experienced in the spine, but in
the core channel, which is far more intense.Most of my subtle body sex was with my wife Joyce – it has been a
hallmark of our relationship since we met at a Taoist retreat 24 years ago.
But even that could not be fully willed by our personalities or any
biological urge; it usually happened spontaneously, most powerfully BEFORE
we had physical sex. Eventually we surrendered to allowing it to be our
primary form of sexual coupling – just lie down next to each other, relax
and allow our energy bodies to copulate. Our skill with Taoist alchemical
practices obviously facilitated this subtle body sex, but did not exactly
control it. The soul controls it, not the mind.Soul Sex is Kundalini in the Core Channel
These subtle body sexual experiences are usually far more intense than
physical sex because the energy body has many more channels of exchange than
the physical body. But it was observing my many experiences over a long
period of time that led me to suspect that my soul was not in fact a
totally”neutral witness”, but a polarized pattern of force or entity within
a more neutral field of consciousness.This led me to the hypothesis that all human souls are sexed
predominantly male or female, but that each human soul has a “shadow” gender
which functions exactly like the shadow side of our slower vibrating
male/female sexed body-mind. In short, the formless pre-natal plane of our
soul is similar to the physical plane, only it is difficult to grasp because
it is vibrating as such a fast level.The hidden or unmanifest side of our soul is holding a lot of power and
has a different agenda than what we think or feel we are. The sexual split
at the body-mind level has us polarized “horizontally” as male-female. If we
have a male body, our shadow is female, and vice versa. This dynamic is
played out biologically and culturally in our sexual relations.Humanity: 3rd Force between Heaven & Earth
At the soul level, the sexual split plays itself out “vertically”, in our
identification with the heaven-earth polarity. This plays itself out in our
spiritual seeking after earth/form or heaven/formless, and played itself out
historically within sky god/earth goddess religions and all the social
implications they promote. Groups offering a path into the ultimate Void or
Absolute Emptiness are simply repackaging the male/formless/sky ideal.If we can make the shadow side of our soul conscious, we can harness its
spiritual power and greatly speed completion of our spiritual destiny as
humans mediating between heaven and earth. Otherwise, humans are simply
unconscious soldiers fighting for one or the other side of their psyche. An
awakened humanity will realize it can consciously hold a third force between
heaven and earth. I believe our highest potential destiny is to return to
our divine androgynous male-female-state with ia restored ability to easily
breathe Original Breath (yuan chi), the raw stuff of creation.This accounts for the Taoist focus on becoming immortal, which I define
as unique beings who bring continuity to creative life in other dimensions,
other heaven and earths beyond this particular physical one. Human
evolution is the process of internalizing our relationship with and
transforming the primordial field of Original Breath, not devolving and
disappearing back into it without a trace. This is how I interpret
“returning to the source” in the Tao Te Ching (daodejing) of Lao tzu.May our Souls Play Harmoniously in the Tao,
Michael Winn
Who takes Heaven as his ancestor, Virtue as his home,
the Tao as his door, and who becomes change is a
Sage.
Chuang Tzu, Inner Chapters
“The Tao is very close, but everyone looks far away.
Life is very simple, but everyone seeks difficulty.”
— Taoist Sage, 200 B.C
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December 6, 2007 at 11:49 pm #26533StevenModeratorHi Michael,
I found this article to be quite fascinating . . . a very
interesting read.Do you find it necessary to slightly show preference for
the opposite sexed aspect of yourself during these processes
to counter-balance/off-set the fact the body itself is
already polarized into one sexed version? Or does this
new method operate on some higher level that short-circuits
the path before it reaches the sexualized vessel?Steven
December 7, 2007 at 10:37 am #26535Swedich DragonParticipantHello Michael/Others. Interesting article!
Some experiences from healing love: (Much more lower level than from the article)
During my periods of 100 days without ejaculation I would feel something I’ve read from a kundalinin book is a sign of my inner androgony. It had happened duting this times that I had a homosexual atraction in my dreams to men and sometimes also in reality.
Interesting to notice what in a man atracts a woman!
Also ohter strange dreams aroud masculinity arises during this 100 days periods.
Sincerely S D
December 9, 2007 at 2:31 am #26537StevenModeratorHi SD,
In my experiences talking with a variety of people, I have
rarely found anyone who could be considered 100% straight
or 100% gay. Someone could be 98%/2% or 70%/30% or 20%/80% etc.I think it’s all a continuum, and we all fall somewhere on the
line depending on our nature.It’s possible in your case that the homosexual desires
that you have–at whatever fraction exists in you . . .
be it 2%, 10%, 30% whatever–became brought to the surface and
less buried due to heightened sexual energy in the body.If you weren’t aware of this before, it could be a good thing
as it can serve to provide deeper insight into yourself.S
December 9, 2007 at 6:07 am #26539Swedich DragonParticipantHello Steven
From the book “Kundalini and the chakras” by G L Paulson:
“Homosexuality and lesbianism may appear as kundalini energy brings about a androgynous state. The kundalini forces peaople to deal with both masculine and feminine polarities. … Joining polarities through androgyny … allows high creative and spiritual forces to flow through the body; a person thus afected may experience homosexual or lesbian feelings…There are, of course, reasons homosexual or lesbian feelings other than the action of the kundalini.
For me when the feelings arised I was a litle bit choked. The text helped me understund this a litle bit better.
I also completely agree with you.
Sincerely S D
December 9, 2007 at 2:36 pm #26541StevenModeratorI’m not sure I completely understand what he is getting at.
If he is saying that the process makes you more aware of the parts
of yourself that have homosexual desires, then I agree with him.If he is saying that they weren’t present to begin with, and
that just the process of moving toward androgyny creates
them, then I don’t buy it. Reason being, that this would
imply that people that are perfectly bisexual (50%/50%) would
somehow be “naturally” further along in their spiritual
advancement and somehow closer to the source. This is of
course not true. If a person moves toward an androgynous
state, they would become more and more completed, and sexual
desire of *all* kind would fall away.I would have to say, respectfully, that if you felt homosexual
desires and you hadn’t noticed it before, than it is because
you *always* had them–but were repressing them for whatever
reason. Then due to the practice, you were forced to deal with
what has been repressed.As an aside, this discussion does make me wonder what HT
says about sexual orientation, and what is the root mechanism
behind it?Is that polarization into one of the two halves isn’t complete,
i.e 100%; is that the physical body contains multiple sexed souls,
where some of the souls have one sex and some of them have the
other, and the aggregate then forms the overall sexual orientation?;
although now that I think about it, this would possibly explain
*sexual identity* issues (i.e. woman feels like a man or vice versa),
but doesn’t really address sexual orientation–because a person
can feel totally correct with the gender they are, but still
have a homosexual, bisexual, whatever sexual orientation (i.e.
who they are attracted to). It would be good if someone like
Michael could shed light on this.An interesting sidebar:
I just saw on “Animal Planet” (TV channel) a discussion about how
the human male “Y” chromosome has been getting smaller with less
and less gene pairs through historical time–and that at some
point in the distant future, it may disappear entirely and the
human race will, at that time, be a one-sex species.They then showed some lizard species, that apparently lost its
other sex. How they reproduce is interesting . . . basically
two females mount each other and simulate the sex act. These
motions then trigger the release of eggs which produce young
without the need for fertilization.On the note about becoming a one-sex species, I have noticed
in our own time that male and female roles have become more
and more similar. Women are no longer just staying home as
housewives to raise children, but are instead being part of
the workforce–more and more in previously-viewed male-dominated
aggressive type jobs. Men, it seems like have become more
in touch with their feelings, and spend more time grooming
before going in public–things usually attributed to women.
Thus, in some ways, the two genders have become less different
from each other. Hmm.Steven
December 10, 2007 at 3:00 pm #26543Swedich DragonParticipantSteven wrote:
“””””If he is saying that the process makes you more aware of the parts
of yourself that have homosexual desires, then I agree with him.
“””””””No I don’t think this is what he mean. He makes a distinction from this. He says that kundalini awakes androgyny and during this awakening there might be homosexual or lesbian feelings. This is not the same as you says that the kundalini awaken uncounsious parts of you that might be homosexual or lesbian. At least not as I see it. I feel that he wants to say that this is something else.
Steven wrote:
“””””If he is saying that they weren’t present to begin with, and
that just the process of moving toward androgyny creates
them, then I don’t buy it. Reason being, that this would
imply that people that are perfectly bisexual (50%/50%) would
somehow be “naturally” further along in their spiritual
advancement and somehow closer to the source. This is of
course not true. If a person moves toward an androgynous
state, they would become more and more completed, and sexual
desire of *all* kind would fall away.
“”””””””You are making the wrong conclusion beacase you belive bisexuality is the same as androgony. But he is telling you it is not the same. What you are sexualy atracted to have noting to do with the androgony. The homosexual atractions you feels during this process of androgony doen’t tell you what you realy are. It’s just a temporary efect of the androgony that is created. It is not permanent and this process of becoming more androgony (wrong spelling) makes you more whole on a spiritual level. You will have better balance and more conection to both feminine and masculine mental capacities. But you will not change and becoming more bisexual.
Steven Wrote:
“””””I would have to say, respectfully, that if you felt homosexual
desires and you hadn’t noticed it before, than it is because
you *always* had them–but were repressing them for whatever
reason. Then due to the practice, you were forced to deal with
what has been repressed.
“”””””””Not necessarily so. If there is represed homosexuality then it might change I believe. But the writer of the book did say that you should not think this is what is happening. It is more an temporalily efect of kundalini happening when you are developing you androgony. So most of the time you do not have to wory about changing your sexuality to becoming more bisexual.
Steven wrote about:””””…multiple sexed souls,””””
Interesting
Steven wrote:
“””””On the note about becoming a one-sex species, I have noticed
in our own time that male and female roles have become more
and more similar. Women are no longer just staying home as
housewives to raise children, but are instead being part of
the workforce–more and more in previously-viewed male-dominated
aggressive type jobs. Men, it seems like have become more
in touch with their feelings, and spend more time grooming
before going in public–things usually attributed to women.
Thus, in some ways, the two genders have become less different
from each other. Hmm.
“””””””According to my Indian yoga tantra teacher this is the main reason why we have so many relational problems this days. The depolarisation of the genders makes less attraction betwean the partners and more frustration in the relationships. We need to polarise back a litle bit. Like men giving flowers to the women and so on. According to her. Interesting.
Sincerely S D
December 10, 2007 at 3:01 pm #26545Swedich DragonParticipantDecember 11, 2007 at 4:11 am #26547StevenModerator>>He says that kundalini awakes androgyny and during
>>this awakening there might be homosexual or lesbian feelings.
>>This is not the same as you says that the kundalini awaken
>>uncounsious parts of you that might be homosexual or lesbian.Yeah, this doesn’t really make sense to me.
If you are joining yourself into one sex, then you are completing
something. It doesn’t make sense that such feelings would
develop even if temporarily–you really wouldn’t be completing
something then, just bringing something else into the mix.S: If he is saying that they weren’t present to begin with, and
that just the process of moving toward androgyny creates
them, then I don’t buy it. Reason being, that this would
imply that people that are perfectly bisexual (50%/50%) would
somehow be “naturally” further along in their spiritual
advancement and somehow closer to the source. This is of
course not true. If a person moves toward an androgynous
state, they would become more and more completed, and sexual
desire of *all* kind would fall away.SD: You are making the wrong conclusion beacase you belive
bisexuality is the same as androgony. But he is telling you
it is not the same. What you are sexualy atracted to have
noting to do with the androgony. The homosexual atractions you
feels during this process of androgony doen’t tell you what you
realy are. It’s just a temporary efect of the androgony that
is created. It is not permanent and this process of becoming
more androgony (wrong spelling) makes you more whole on a
spiritual level. You will have better balance and more
conection to both feminine and masculine mental capacities.
But you will not change and becoming more bisexual.No I don’t believe the two are same, and that is exactly my point.
If you are completing something into a “one-sexed” state
then you wouldn’t be having these feelings to begin with!
It doesn’t make sense to me that homosexual feelings would
arise as a transitional state. Say for instance you pour
an acid into base to neutralize it. Things don’t become
slightly basic before becoming neutral, if anything they
just neutralize. Another analogy (in more physical terms) if you are
strongly attracted to women, and then you develop
a loving relationship with a lot of sex, you wouldn’t
develop an attraction to men before feeling complete in your
union, right? The same should be true on an energetic level, since
the physical is just a mirror of the energetic.
In other words, when going into a one-sexed state
you should just be completing what you need, end of story.
If homosexual feelings arise, to me it speaks of the
fact that parts of yourself (speaking generally) that have
homosexual desires are brought to the surface, so that
they *also* have the opportunity to complete. To really
complete the sexualized part of you, you need to complete
all of it–that’s where it would come from. Why else
would it be there? If there were no homosexual feelings to begin with,
then I see no need or reason why they would arise as
part of the journey toward a one-sexed state completion.This is why I don’t believe his opinion at all.
It ultimately doesn’t make a lot of sense.S: I would have to say, respectfully, that if you felt homosexual
desires and you hadn’t noticed it before, than it is because
you *always* had them–but were repressing them for whatever
reason. Then due to the practice, you were forced to deal with
what has been repressed.SD: Not necessarily so. If there is represed homosexuality then it might change I believe. But the writer of the book did say that you should not think this is what is happening. It is more an temporalily efect of kundalini happening when you are developing you androgony.
Well, this is his opinion, and (at least in your posts) he doesn’t
really give a reason why it would happen, and when looked at objectively
it really doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Why would it be
there, if it weren’t there to begin with? Really! If anything,
you’d just be taking away what you needed. Step back for a minute
and really look at it! There’s no rational reason why it
would be there, unless it had already been–albeit buried within.If anything, he probably experienced these things himself,
and he just tried to come up with some statement to discount
the reality of what was happening, just not honestly facing himself.We may just have to agree to disagree on this one, because I
personally don’t think his reasoning is sound. Sorry.Best,
StevenDecember 11, 2007 at 11:08 am #26549Swedich DragonParticipantWell Steven
During a kundalini awakening there is enourmus forces going on. You will expand both spiritually and sexualy. This forces are wery greate and perhaps even bigger than your personal uncounciousnes. You might come into contact and feel forces that not realy are you as well as forces and uncouncious parts that are you. Some of them are ment to be completed and part of yourself as a more developed person, others are not ment to be part of yourself.
What I say and I belive the athor say is that you don’t have to think you are on your way to become a bi or homosexual just because you feel such feeling during this expanded kundalinin awakening! It’s just one of the wierd things happening during this process.
For me as inspired by C G Jung it’s nothing strange about this wieu. During an analysis within a Jungian consept you will meet archetypical forces feelings that might be something you should internalise and others you should not. One of the greatest skills amongst the analytical psychoterapeut is to know or feel the difference.
So what you write make a lot of sence but I still feel there might be such an expansion of your awarness of uncounsious feelings during the kundalini awakening that you might come into contact with feelings that not realy are ment to be part of yourself on a more permanent level.
But I can’t realy tell for shore. I give you big credit for your argumentation. I also believe that when reached a total androgony state there might be loss of sexual needs. But I think what I myself was experiensing was just a beginning of the journey. So for me myself I can’t realy say for the moment if the homosexual feelings are something I have to deal with as a part of myself in the future or if it just is an efect of higher sexual and perhaps androgynic states. Anyway haven’t had such a feelings the two latest years so there is no problem. The universe will give me the way of tao anyway even if I should have made the wrong conclusion about this.
As I see it it’s possible that wery strange things might hapen during the wery forceful power of expansion involved in the forces of kundalini. But you are right about that the athor doen’t come up with wery good arguments for why this happans if it’s not parts of your personality. For me it’s just a greate expansion of your counsiousness perhaps beyond your own souls into a bigger sphere of collective uncounsiousness.
I just tell you I see it as a possibility not that I have shoosen this explanaition before the one you are telling me.
Pehaps I will find more to read about this topic so that the argumentation goes in a more evolved way.
Sincerely S D
December 11, 2007 at 3:01 pm #26551Michael WinnKeymasterSteven,
I share your view that everyone’s manifested sexual orientation (whether bi at 50-50 or 90-10 to hetero, etc.) does not switch when the soul level opens up (as Swedich Dragon postulateed). Rather, as your androgynous soul evolves, your physical sexual orientation evolves from its unconscious impulse and is accelerated into becoming more integrated with the soul pattern. But it doesn’t lose its polarity; the amount of neutral soul force is what is mostly increased, and that polarizes spontaneously to support the manifested pattern.And I don’t think the pattern of physical evolution is towards extinction of the male and female into a bisexual physical being, I think it moving towards three sexes – male, female, and androgynous (having both sex organs). Statisticlly, this seems to be what is happening.
And I think that this progression will increase the amount of neutral force present in all three sexes, so there will be less of a “battle of the sexes” and greater understanding between them that the “neutral” resonance allows, without loss of polarity that is necessary to the group survival in physical form.
These are, of couse, just my speculations, based on my own experience and that of students observed.
Smiling to your balls/ovaries,
MichaelDecember 11, 2007 at 4:24 pm #26553Swedich DragonParticipantHello Michael W
The three states solution was a nice one! Thx for sharing your ideas on this!
Michael wrote
“”””””Rather, as your androgynous soul evolves, your physical sexual orientation evolves from its unconscious impulse and is accelerated into becoming more integrated with the soul pattern. But it doesn’t lose its polarity; the amount of neutral soul force is what is mostly increased, and that polarizes spontaneously to support the manifested pattern. “””””””””
Assuming a heterosexual pattern from beginning: A hypothesis of where from the homosexual feelings are coming from.
As I see it as the soul force increases and before it have found and supported the manifested patterns, there might be feelings of homosexuality. Beacase the increased energies are trying to find theire way and form as sexual polarised energies and that they not yet are manifested as heterosexual or any other already manifested pattern. During this time theire seems to be possible to have homosexual feelings beacase the energies are somewhat at a unevolved baby state.
What do you think Steven and Michael.
Sincerely S D
December 11, 2007 at 10:57 pm #26555StevenModerator“But it doesn’t lose its polarity; the amount of neutral soul force is what is mostly increased, and that polarizes spontaneously to support the manifested pattern.”
This makes sense. This creates a more cohesive dynamic
between the physical and the soul level,while at the same time
allows the physical to remain physical for further exploration.“And I don’t think the pattern of physical evolution is towards extinction of the male and female into a bisexual physical being, I think it moving towards three sexes – male, female, and androgynous (having both sex organs). Statisticlly, this seems to be what is happening.”
The main question here is that through geologic time, the human
Y-chromosome keeps shrinking. If it shrinks away to nothing, where
does that leave the male sex?If a third sex develops that has both sex organs, it would probably
be sterile–as most hermaphrodites that are born are.I see these things as potential problems for continued physical
reproduction of the human race.What’s your take on this?
Are we truly moving in a direction where we are going to “outgrow”
the need for physicality? Or will we always need a physical
form to some degree?(Also with some humor, would this third sex with both sex
organs be able to have self-sex? Well, maybe not. It would
probably be a little too difficult to make the penis do
a U-turn. At the very least, it would make any physical
sex with others an interesting endeavor to say the least)Best,
StevenDecember 11, 2007 at 11:09 pm #26557MatthewQiParticipantHere is a link with discussion on the topic (further down on the page)…
December 11, 2007 at 11:28 pm #26559StevenModerator“As I see it as the soul force increases and before it have found
and supported the manifested patterns, there might be feelings
of homosexuality. Beacase the increased energies are trying
to find theire way and form as sexual polarised energies and
that they not yet are manifested as heterosexual or any other
already manifested pattern. During this time theire seems to be
possible to have homosexual feelings beacase the energies are
somewhat at a unevolved baby state.”I’m sorry. I still don’t buy it. If the soul force comes
in neutrally, it doesn’t make sense that it would orient
differently even if only in the short term.Personally, I think you’re overlooking the obvious . . .
namely that such feelings were always present, and you
were just unaware of the actual pattern. Then the
intensity of the energies involved bring it to the
surface so that all aspects can get into the game.There are still a lot of shame issues/self-acceptance
issues revolving around homosexuality to any degree,
and just trying to pass off the arisen feelings as
an anomaly is just an attempt to hide from what *is*
out of some irrational fear, in my opinion.That’s why the author has an explanation that ultimately
doesn’t make sense. He probably sees himself as a heterosexual,
and is in reality only 90% or 95% heterosexual. Then when
the homosexual feelings arose, due to the self-acceptance/shame
concepts, he didn’t want to accept it. I think his
“explanation” is a weak attempt to avoid reality.Embrace you–the whole you–with whatever it is–on the inside.
Trying to label parts of yourself as anomalous and not
really part of you is the road to problems.What’s so bad about being 5%, 60%, 25%, whatever % homosexual
anyway? We’re all unique individuals. It would be
pretty boring if everyone were *exactly* the same!Steven
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