September 1, 2006 at 12:53 pm #17292
Not all taoists and not all tao alchemists have the same understanding of alchemy.
The great tao alchemist denial: We are not currently Immortal and Eternal!
Some alchemists beleive each human has multiple souls and shen and if they are not integrated at death they will split and go into the cosmos, the chance for the unique spirit in human form to continual to exist is lost forever.
Realistically and statistically speaking most have no real chance for immortality according to this view? This seems to be a very fear driven approach?September 1, 2006 at 1:14 pm #17293
>>We are not currently Immortal and Eternal!<<
*That's because they have the view of the ego-self, which is illusionary. The true self is immortal. If only they abided in wu-hsin (non-mindedness) would wu-wei manifest and truly then, would they understand that there is a supreme commander beyond ego that is immortal.
The big issue is false self vs. true self like Michael has pointed out. I hope we can penetrate deeper into the matter.
FajinSeptember 1, 2006 at 1:24 pm #17295
If you say we are not immortal you draw a distinction between you and your true self. We have enternal energy or spiritual energy, this makes us eternal. We have the capacity to attach to things/etc. which takes us into different Qi fields of delusion.
We cannot go from not-eternal to eternal, this is just thinking.
We can go from delusion to clarity, this is why we cultivate.
I may take a Wudan 28-tai qi form this weekend, think I should, is it worth it? The teacher lives in wudan. Is there anything unique about it or benefits I would get that I would not from the forms I do?
Smiling in the Tao,
baguaSeptember 1, 2006 at 4:04 pm #17297
It is all to do with what you think the point is of being alive here and now in a human body. Can you answer that one? Don’t think about doctrines and sutras, just answer!
… at this point I have no wish to enter the argument per se, but I would like to give you a nice quote to chew on, from Franz Bardon’s ‘Practice of Magical Evocation’. I think you will find it interesting; I don’t think it will change your minds though, because you are very decided!
Still check this out:
>>It is decided in the higher spheres whether the magician wishes to attain the highest perfection or if he wishes to become a saint. A magician who strives for the highest perfection is the highest and greatest lord in creation, because he actually symbolizes the complete and entire image of God in all its aspects. A saint remains with one aspect and he perfects himself in this aspect. He becomes a part of this aspect and, when the perfection of this aspect eventually comes into being within him, ***he loses his perfected individuality***. The highest perfection that a human being can ever achieve is that of a true sovereign, a true magician, thus actually representing a perfect image of God, ***whereby he never loses and never relinquishes his individuality***.<<
[p. 120, my emph.]
NNSeptember 1, 2006 at 4:10 pm #17299
I think we know exactly what Michael is referring too.September 1, 2006 at 4:15 pm #17301September 1, 2006 at 4:26 pm #17303
What is your question?September 1, 2006 at 4:28 pm #17305
I dont understand this question, can you reword it?
“It is all to do with what you think the point is of being alive here and now in a human body. Can you answer that one? Don’t think about doctrines and sutras, just answer”September 1, 2006 at 4:30 pm #17307
It is very simple.
What is the point – the reason or usefulness or necessity or purpose – of you, Bagua, being incarnated in a human body right at this second?
NNSeptember 1, 2006 at 4:43 pm #17309September 1, 2006 at 4:53 pm #17311
You are a funny person!September 1, 2006 at 4:58 pm #17313
We are our true self. We are congenital mind-will. We are yuan shen. What alchemists reject is this. They say that you are the personality (false you) and it dies out when your body dies and the chance for an immortal self is lost. The ego-self is not you, that is just part of “you.” Not a separate self. 5 shen are like 5 empty cups, when we are born, they begin to fill and are no longer useful. Why are empty cups useful? Because they can be filled!
So yes, like you said, we DO have the capacity to attach to things and cling to them and our primordial self is lost and we cultivate to empty the “5 cups.” Emptiness, our original nature.
FajinSeptember 1, 2006 at 4:58 pm #17315September 1, 2006 at 5:01 pm #17317
Are you coming to Wudang this weekend? The 28 Taiji form has no fajin movements, it is slow and has mostly martial characteristics but many circular hand movements and straight kicks done slowly. If you are doing it just for good health, you don’t need to know it, it’s not very important.
Although, Wudang forms do bring about strong qi circulation, but you’ve got what you need. If you want, I can come to California and teach you some forms when I get back from China one day. My pleasure.
FajinSeptember 1, 2006 at 5:05 pm #17319
When we start thinking about the past, present, and future, we become lost. Live in this very moment, and what is needed to be done, will be done. That’s why we’re here, because we didn’t attune to the moment. If you can do that “non-stop” then you will embrace your immortality!
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